Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

Yes, but both are official gov organisations of India and Russia and don't get involved in random conversations for whims until given clear directive by GOI and Russian gov.

DPSUs in India can talk to foreign collaborators post the permission of the MoD on their own, without needing any directives from them.

FGFA was cancelled because Russians were playing with us. Not this time around. It won't be repeat of MKI model rather much much more than that.

Not the same rules. AMCA engine comes with an independent hefty bill. Any pursuit of license production will come under regular Make in India contract with 50% ToT.

If you want us to get know-how and know-why, we will need to sign an entirely new deal for an engine development program, and we are not interested in that. So whatever engine tech comes in will only be license production.

Not for us. Not only Su-57 or additional S-400s, we will also procure S-500s in future. Our defence cooperation with Russia will continue despite US pressure.

S-500, maybe. But its export model has still not been made, there's been no offer either.
 
While the current f35 doesn't have fly-by-light for its flight systems.
But for its data system's F-35 mainly utilizes fiber optic cables( i.e. data-by-light, for faster data processing than possible by copper wires).


Plus, in 6th gen, its not actual fly-by-light, that's main part, its the data processing boost that fiber optical cables provide, even if data to flight control systems were to reach fast, their mechanical reaction time will still be in the same league as current, though redundancy will increase.

You need FBL for true 6th gen. Half this and half that won't cut it 'cause wire will take precedence over optics due to the importance of flight controls. And the optics will be forced to use electrical interfaces which will drastically reduce data throughput.

Older Rafales and F-22 also have fiber optics for data, but operate at lower speeds compared to the F-35. But even these jets are restricted by electrical interfaces. Rafale F5 will match or exceed the F-35, but will still be stuck, as will GCAP. So, right now, only AMCA, with SCAF and F-47 being likely possibilities.
 
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DPSUs in India can talk to foreign collaborators post the permission of the MoD on their own, without needing any directives from them.
Yes, but not about having JV production of a 5th gen fighter programme which they left in 2018 itself. Reverting back or having any conversation regarding it won't be without GOI's initiative, IMO.
Not the same rules. AMCA engine comes with an independent hefty bill. Any pursuit of license production will come under regular Make in India contract with 50% ToT.
AMCA engine is going to be a clean-sheet design which we'll hold full IPR. Russian offer is different.
If you want us to get know-how and know-why, we will need to sign an entirely new deal for an engine development program, and we are not interested in that. So whatever engine tech comes in will only be license production.
The engine is already developed and has already entered flight testing in a T-50 prototype. Russians are willing to give us full access of this engine if the price is right.
S-500, maybe. But its export model has still not been made, there's been no offer either.
IAF has seen the potency of S-400 and its efficacy. S-500 is in a league of its own and IAF has shown direct interest in it.
 
Yes, but not about having JV production of a 5th gen fighter programme which they left in 2018 itself. Reverting back or having any conversation regarding it won't be without GOI's initiative, IMO.

For negotiations to take place between the govt and another entity, it will be advertised in the media. But if two companies are talking, then there doesn't have to be anything. Since HAL is a DPSU, they have to take permission from MoD, that's all.

What happened is HAL and UAC have conducted internal discussions about HAL's capacity to manufacture, and what can be done to bring full manufacturing to India. That's all. Then they will make a case before MoD and the IAF to go for it. In the meantime, the Russian and HAL lobbies will write a lot of articles in the media trying to confuse people.

Example:
Russia, India holding technical discussions...

It says Russia and India, but in reality just UAC and HAL. This is how lobbying works.

Reality:

Even that news about 36-40 was fake news. Was another lobby-sponsored article.

AMCA engine is going to be a clean-sheet design which we'll hold full IPR. Russian offer is different.

The engine is already developed and has already entered flight testing in a T-50 prototype. Russians are willing to give us full access of this engine if the price is right.

That's not the case. AMCA's engine is not going to be used by French forces, so they can give it away. The Russians plan to use their engine so they will maintain control over their tech.

This is what they are offering for 177S.
From the outset, the ToT package is structured to progressively raise indigenous content from approximately 54 percent in early production batches to over 80 percent within a decade,

So they are restricting the supply of the hot core anyway, and for the MKI, never mind Su-57.

And to date they have only offered 177S for MKI and 177 for Su-57E, both derivatives of the 117 series. They are yet to offer AL-51F1.

So, no, there's nothing happening on the 5th gen front apart from AMCA. Confirmed by the defense secretary.

Right now the only thing UAC can look forward to is getting a contract for MKI MLU.

IAF has seen the potency of S-400 and its efficacy. S-500 is in a league of its own and IAF has shown direct interest in it.

IAF has not shown any interest in something they know nothing about. The S-500 has not been offered for export. The offer will come, but it is still many years away.
 
Yeah, a new engine would have better features than an old engine, but it's still a foundational technology.
No its two fundamental technologies.
VCE architecture + design & materials of the engine itself.

The design + materials of XA100 are 1-2 generation ahead of previous European or soviet engines that experimented with VCE architecture.



Not much, since there's a 3-5-year difference for a technology that takes 20-30 years to develop.
5-7 year difference at *best *




The American kid is already 2 years away from getting a doctorate in physics having just finished his course work and the French kid is waiting to enter a PhD program, which will happen any moment now. That's how much of a difference there is.

The Americans are not "way ahead." The difference is just a program start away. Not like India.
Really? 😮‍💨.

Well of all, if we hypothetically consider this analogy credible, average time to get phd in physics is 5-6 years, but can extend upto 9+ years depending on the course and other factors.

Americans are past of foundational technologies phase(which France is in), past of domestrator building phase, past the domestrator testing phase, past the designing phase of f47 , and are now into construction phase of the full scale prototype and its major associated components like engine, simultaneously also starting early construction of manufacturing infrastructure.

France has to complete all these phases to get where Americans are right now, and each phase has plethora of variables that can cause delays, I don't know what kind of confidence you have that french will get past all these phases smoothly without any delay, when the delay has already occurred with france and German partnership showing major cracks in this early phase of the program itself.

Saying they have foundational technologies, and *it should* take them X years to get where they want to be, if they actually try, is just your assumptions for now, filled confirmation bias.







ECRS Mk2 is just a radar. F5 is a full avionics development program. They are absolutely not the same.
& When did I say they are same?

My point was always, that you are comparing a IOC tech of 2025 that has gone into production, with a tech that will hopefully reach IOC by 2030.
And then using it infer that France is ahead right now.
Currently brits with their ERS-mk2 are more ahead in operational tech that has completed development , while the operational tech of french is older RBe2 aesa.





But only America and France are actively developing 6th gen technologies for production right now, and Britain is no
UK is doing it with Japan and Italy.


When F5 comes out in 2030, the equivalent GCAP will be something like 2037 or later. So how on earth is Britain on par?
1, you are talking about future, a future that hasn't happened yet to infer that currently France is ahead of uk.

2, rafale f5 is not gcap equivalent at all.

3, Currentl timeline of gcap is 2035, just like current timeline for f5 is 2030, both have possibility of delays.



Japan planned to develop FBL for F-X. But once they entered GCAP, their share reduced to just the information system, whereas the flight controls will be developed by the British or Italians using copper wire instead of fiber optics.
Source? I don't see anything about FBL in any othe three links you posted.



So just like F-22 MLU, F-35, and Rafale F5, the GCAP will have FBW for flight controls and OFC for data. You are just backing the point I made. If you've read the link I posted, it should give you the context of where the Japanese participation lies in
Again, which link?
 
You need FBL for true 6th gen. Half this and half that won't cut it 'cause wire will take precedence over optics due to the importance of flight controls. And the optics will be forced to use electrical interfaces which will drastically reduce data throughput.
that's not true, high speed ADCs and serial links can handle tens to hundreds of Gbps, optical doesn't get bottlenecked by that in practice.


FLy by light offers more redundancy, especially against EMI.
which includes but is not limited to: high power electronics, EMPs, lightning

FBL has advantages but you can function just fine with FBW + optical fibre for data bus like F35.
 
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For negotiations to take place between the govt and another entity, it will be advertised in the media. But if two companies are talking, then there doesn't have to be anything. Since HAL is a DPSU, they have to take permission from MoD, that's all.

What happened is HAL and UAC have conducted internal discussions about HAL's capacity to manufacture, and what can be done to bring full manufacturing to India. That's all. Then they will make a case before MoD and the IAF to go for it. In the meantime, the Russian and HAL lobbies will write a lot of articles in the media trying to confuse people.
There is no point in confusing people. India is already out of FGFA program since 2018. Fact is we are doing Hush, hush negotiations with Russians because of current geo-politics. In due time, we shall get more details.
Example:
Russia, India holding technical discussions...

It says Russia and India, but in reality just UAC and HAL. This is how lobbying works.

Reality:

Even that news about 36-40 was fake news. Was another lobby-sponsored article.



That's not the case. AMCA's engine is not going to be used by French forces, so they can give it away.
IPR would be held jointly by both SAFRAN and GTRE. So maybe, the French will use it too in future.
The Russians plan to use their engine so they will maintain control over their tech.
Their crown jewel is AL-51F1 and it's not up for sale. 177 is just a hybrid of AL-41F1S and Al-51F1. Russia has no problem in sharing its core tech with us if price is right.
This is what they are offering for 177S.
From the outset, the ToT package is structured to progressively raise indigenous content from approximately 54 percent in early production batches to over 80 percent within a decade,

So they are restricting the supply of the hot core anyway, and for the MKI, never mind Su-57.
And that's why we haven't signed the dotted line, yet. Give us what we want or get the eff out.
And to date they have only offered 177S for MKI and 177 for Su-57E, both derivatives of the 117 series. They are yet to offer AL-51F1.
Both engines use tech like 3-stage LPC and metallurgy from AL-51F1 itself. It's a 5- gen engine with F119 like dry/wet thrust and far better efficiency(item 177).
So, no, there's nothing happening on the 5th gen front apart from AMCA. Confirmed by the defense secretary.

Right now the only thing UAC can look forward to is getting a contract for MKI MLU.
There is plenty happening behind the doors;)
IAF has not shown any interest in something they know nothing about. The S-500 has not been offered for export. The offer will come, but it is still many years away.
IAF team has already been to Russia to evaluate it and what they saw there was good enough to blow their mind. Just wait for sometime, we will most definitely look to add it in our arsenal once the system matures and its production line starts churning it in big numbers.
 
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There is no point in confusing people. India is already out of FGFA program since 2018. Fact is we are doing Hush, hush negotiations with Russians because of current geo-politics. In due time, we shall get more details.

IPR would be held jointly by both SAFRAN and GTRE. So maybe, the French will use it too in future.

Their crown jewel is AL-51F1 and it's not up for sale. 177 is just a hybrid of AL-41F1S and Al-51F1. Russia has no problem in sharing its core tech with us if price is right.

And that's why we haven't signed the dotted line. Give us what we want or get the eff out.

Both engine use tech like 3-stage LPC and metallurgy from AL-51F1 itself. It's a 5- gen engine with F119 like dry/wet thrust and far better efficiency(item 177).

There is plenty happening behind the doors;)

IAF team has already been to Russia to evaluate it and what they saw there was good enough to blow their mind. Just wait for sometime, we will most definitely look to add it in our arsenal once the system matures and its production line starts churning it in big numbers.
I agree with the thought behind the fact that if UAC & HAL are having talks it's not of their own initiative rather it's been mandated by their respective governments to explore possibilities in ToT , MII , level of IC , IPR , costs , mfg feasibility , tooling similarities with MKI etc .

And in these negotiations we'd begin with maximalist positions as I stated before. Russia is in a vulnerable situation like we were up until recently . It's time we repay them in the same coin.

Squeeze as much as we can out of them for the right price which should be bargain basement prices. Otherwise walk off . We have that option , they don't. Time we capitalise on the situation.
 
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No its two fundamental technologies.
VCE architecture + design & materials of the engine itself.

The design + materials of XA100 are 1-2 generation ahead of previous European or soviet engines that experimented with VCE architecture.

"Generation" doesn't matter, that's taken care of with a new design. Like M88-2 to M88-4E. I'm talking about foundational technologies.

For example, most engines are single stream, whereas the VCE the Americans designed is 3 stream. But did you know M88 is two stream?

5-7 year difference at *best *

How? The French started working on the engine in 2021, even they are at the prototype stage.

This is from a few months ago about XA-103:
More than 1,000 engineers and over 100 domestic suppliers are engaged in the effort, working toward the next milestone – an Assembly Readiness Review – before the prototype build and ground testing later this decade.

The French are just 1 year away in reality. They will sign their engine deal this year and next year they will also talk about prototype build and ground testing "later this decade."

Once you achieve technological maturity, you don't necessarily need to develop a demonstrator like the XA-100, you jump straight to prototype. We are doing the same with AMCA. We junked the plan for 2 TDs 'cause we matured our design straightaway to a prototype. That's 2 years less flying time.

Really? 😮‍💨.

Well of all, if we hypothetically consider this analogy credible, average time to get phd in physics is 5-6 years, but can extend upto 9+ years depending on the course and other factors.

Americans are past of foundational technologies phase(which France is in), past of domestrator building phase, past the domestrator testing phase, past the designing phase of f47 , and are now into construction phase of the full scale prototype and its major associated components like engine, simultaneously also starting early construction of manufacturing infrastructure.

France has to complete all these phases to get where Americans are right now, and each phase has plethora of variables that can cause delays, I don't know what kind of confidence you have that french will get past all these phases smoothly without any delay, when the delay has already occurred with france and German partnership showing major cracks in this early phase of the program itself.

Saying they have foundational technologies, and *it should* take them X years to get where they want to be, if they actually try, is just your assumptions for now, filled confirmation bias.

Because they are one year away from being in the same place.

The Americans love showing off, the French don't. It's always been that way.

& When did I say they are same?

My point was always, that you are comparing a IOC tech of 2025 that has gone into production, with a tech that will hopefully reach IOC by 2030.
And then using it infer that France is ahead right now.
Currently brits with their ERS-mk2 are more ahead in operational tech that has completed development , while the operational tech of french is older RBe2 aesa.

ECRS Mk2 is slated for IOC in 2030, and there's no guarantee they will achieve that date 'cause it slipped from "after 2025" to now 2030. It's expected to enter service in 2030 on a Typhoon alongside the F5.

So how are they ahead?

1, you are talking about future, a future that hasn't happened yet to infer that currently France is ahead of uk.

2, rafale f5 is not gcap equivalent at all.

3, Currentl timeline of gcap is 2035, just like current timeline for f5 is 2030, both have possibility of delays.

1. Because it's already true. Scores of air force evaluations have actually proven that.
2. I'm referring to electronics obviously, not the entire aircraft.
3. Rafale F5 uses the same airframe and the electronics for it are more or less developed. That makes it easy and predictable. GCAP is still vaporware. GCAP will definitely slip, F5 won't.

Source? I don't see anything about FBL in any othe three links you posted.

The links are about Rafale F5 and how it's different from older variants and how it uses a separate OFC channel for data, like the F-35.

GCAP will use copper wire, unless something changes midway, demonstrator to prototype, which I actually hope happens. Common enemy and all.

Their demonstator looks like a tailless AMCA.
GwDBO7ZWcAAaFmt.jpg

If this is like the difference between Swift and Ghatak, then there could be room for an advancement.
 
that's not true, high speed ADCs and serial links can handle tens to hundreds of Gbps, optical doesn't get bottlenecked by that in practice.


FLy by light offers more redundancy, especially against EMI.
which includes but is not limited to: high power electronics, EMPs, lightning

FBL has advantages but you can function just fine with FBW + optical fibre for data bus like F35.

Nope. Especially when it comes to 6th gen and MUMT, you need a combination of flight controls and data to work in tandem to help manage offboard networking.

This means you cannot have interference affecting the quality of data, including interference from sensors and other electrical signals. Copper wiring has to deal with a lot of interference, especially in 6th gen.

Upon doing more research on the interference, in fact I won't be surprised if the GCAP will actually come with fly-by-light when it is produced. The British are also experimenting with fly-by-wireless.

The UK's "Tempest" demonstrator, which informs the GCAP project, is testing advanced fly-by-wire and potentially fly-by-wireless, or fiber-optic flight control systems to replace traditional heavy wiring.

FBL is quite necessary for drones to sychronize with the main fighter. Which means we could see wireless or optics in the first prototype meant for 2030.
 
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There is no point in confusing people. India is already out of FGFA program since 2018. Fact is we are doing Hush, hush negotiations with Russians because of current geo-politics. In due time, we shall get more details.

Why would we have hush-hush negotiations over this? The entire industry needs to know. If there were negotiations, then there wouldn't be any Russian or HAL led lobbying in the first place, even they would be all hush-hush about it.

Do you see the French lobbying in India?

As per our rules, when the govt is talking important stuff, companies are not allowed to talk to the media. This is the biggest clue that things are happening behind closed doors.

IPR would be held jointly by both SAFRAN and GTRE. So maybe, the French will use it too in future.

They are talking about 100% IPR transfer. Even France won't be allowed to use it.

Their crown jewel is AL-51F1 and it's not up for sale. 177 is just a hybrid of AL-41F1S and Al-51F1. Russia has no problem in sharing its core tech with us if price is right.

Then what's the use? Without AL-51F1, the Su-57 is just junk. 16T engine is not sufficient even for the Russians never mind our hot and high requirements.

And that's why we haven't signed the dotted line, yet. Give us what we want or get the eff out.

It's just an offer. The IAF is sticking with AL-31FP for now.

Both engines use tech like 3-stage LPC and metallurgy from AL-51F1 itself. It's a 5- gen engine with F119 like dry/wet thrust and far better efficiency(item 177).

AL-51F1 is an entirely new engine. It's not even using the same materials.

The Russians are just trying to milk the AL-31F family as much as possible before its production ends.

There is plenty happening behind the doors;)

Then they would be silent about it, not printing news stories every other week.

IAF team has already been to Russia to evaluate it and what they saw there was good enough to blow their mind. Just wait for sometime, we will most definitely look to add it in our arsenal once the system matures and its production line starts churning it in big numbers.

The Kremlin has not given export approval. No IAF team has evaluated the S-500. Hell, we haven't even evaluated the Su-57 even after paying for FGFA's design.

The IAF is actually keen to know more about the S-500, but they are yet to give permission. They won't give it before creating an export system. I doubt they'd want to repeat what happened with FGFA.

Simply put, we can't evaluate a system that's exclusively used by Russian forces. Even Donbas forces got export S-400s meant for India. And right now, Russian forces will retain full control over the S-500's production until 2030, which means no evaluations until 2030.
 
For negotiations to take place between the govt and another entity, it will be advertised in the media. But if two companies are talking, then there doesn't have to be anything. Since HAL is a DPSU, they have to take permission from MoD, that's all.

What happened is HAL and UAC have conducted internal discussions about HAL's capacity to manufacture, and what can be done to bring full manufacturing to India. That's all. Then they will make a case before MoD and the IAF to go for it. In the meantime, the Russian and HAL lobbies will write a lot of articles in the media trying to confuse people.

Example:
Russia, India holding technical discussions...

It says Russia and India, but in reality just UAC and HAL. This is how lobbying works.

Reality:

Even that news about 36-40 was fake news. Was another lobby-sponsored article.



That's not the case. AMCA's engine is not going to be used by French forces, so they can give it away. The Russians plan to use their engine so they will maintain control over their tech.

This is what they are offering for 177S.
From the outset, the ToT package is structured to progressively raise indigenous content from approximately 54 percent in early production batches to over 80 percent within a decade,

So they are restricting the supply of the hot core anyway, and for the MKI, never mind Su-57.

And to date they have only offered 177S for MKI and 177 for Su-57E, both derivatives of the 117 series. They are yet to offer AL-51F1.

So, no, there's nothing happening on the 5th gen front apart from AMCA. Confirmed by the defense secretary.

Right now the only thing UAC can look forward to is getting a contract for MKI MLU.



IAF has not shown any interest in something they know nothing about. The S-500 has not been offered for export. The offer will come, but it is still many years away.
With PDV Mk2, AD1 and Kusha, I highly doubt we will need S500 when it is offered. Waste of money, which could be spent to speed up AD AH and hypersonic missile tracking satellites.
 
Why would we have hush-hush negotiations over this? The entire industry needs to know. If there were negotiations, then there wouldn't be any Russian or HAL led lobbying in the first place, even they would be all hush-hush about it.

Do you see the French lobbying in India?

As per our rules, when the govt is talking important stuff, companies are not allowed to talk to the media. This is the biggest clue that things are happening behind closed doors.



They are talking about 100% IPR transfer. Even France won't be allowed to use it.



Then what's the use? Without AL-51F1, the Su-57 is just junk. 16T engine is not sufficient even for the Russians never mind our hot and high requirements.



It's just an offer. The IAF is sticking with AL-31FP for now.



AL-51F1 is an entirely new engine. It's not even using the same materials.

The Russians are just trying to milk the AL-31F family as much as possible before its production ends.



Then they would be silent about it, not printing news stories every other week.
Because we don't want to ruffle American and European feathers. World will only know once DAC clears it. Not before.
The Kremlin has not given export approval. No IAF team has evaluated the S-500.
They are piching it to us as a JV. IAF team did watch its demo in Russia and it was too good.
Hell, we haven't even evaluated the Su-57 even after paying for FGFA's design.
IAF did a mini-evaluation last february but full evaluation of Su-57 by IAF is about to begin soon. Watch this space.......;)
The IAF is actually keen to know more about the S-500, but they are yet to give permission. They won't give it before creating an export system. I doubt they'd want to repeat what happened with FGFA.

Simply put, we can't evaluate a system that's exclusively used by Russian forces. Even Donbas forces got export S-400s meant for India. And right now, Russian forces will retain full control over the S-500's production until 2030, which means no evaluations until 2030.
Agreed. S-500, if procured, won't arrive before 2030s.
 
Yes, we do. It's in Chitradurga. An IAF base being developed for this is Sulur. The ground test base is in Bangalore.
I asked do we have a pic, video, diagram of morphing wing you said being tested in the air?
bcoz the Aeronautical Test Range NE of Chitradurga (14°23'12.7"N 76°34'38.4"E), (9HPC+QR8, Varavoo Kaval, Karnataka 577536) has runway surrounded by close, short hills beyond which there're fields, villages, highways. There'no comparison with Area-51.
The Sulur airbase has far worse expose to public.

if a morphing wing experimental platform is being tested on manned A/c or UAV from these locations, cannot escape public eyes.

The source is CSIR-NAL and DRDO, not an article.
Obviously who else will be source? But the articles are portraying unbelievable AI made pics rather than some slide or diagram from CSIR-NAL, DRDO, ADA.

Engine, TVC, and flight controls for tailless high-performance designs. That's why AMCA is a tailed design.

As I told you a few years ago, we are gonna develop foundational technologies through drones. The next evolution after Ghatak is to use AMCA's engine to develop a next generation of high performance drones by 2040, which will give us the foundational technologies required for future unmanned large-body fighter drones to replace manned fighters. ADE recently announced they will begin a new drone development in 2030 using AMCA's engine. So the next evolution for 2050s will be twin-engine drones using VCE that will replace manned fighters. What you call AHCA.

> That approach is only for the UCAVs, not manned jet of 6gen what i actually call AHCA Mk1 which can be inducted by 2040-45 if made by discipline in PPP.

> After 15 years since 2010, citizens were thinking that AMCA metal cutting happened so its prototype is 50% completed. But now news say that PPP will start making it.

> A medium class engine like F414 or its JV equivalent has many use cases, but India's domestic capability in engine with Kaveri & UCAV with Ghatak & CATS Warrior is new, slow, unprepared for sudden war. 6gen is MUMT, the UCAVs can have small to medium engines but the manned jet needs higher electricity, ATWR (A/c Thrust to Weight Ratio), payload, hence high thrust engine, i've already shown preliminary calculations in AHCA thread long back. Initial batches may have 5gen engine then VCE.

> War will not wait till 2050s & won't be won with super delayed &/or obsolete stuff.

> The discussion is on our 6gen jet & you complicated it by a new parameter of "morphing wings".

> Your solution is to move slower for 25-30 years till all 100% components reach 6gen level in 2050s & probably import MiG-41. My idea of AHCA is a work-around of modular architecture, for IN+IAF, with higher payload, higher thrust engine, to use domestic & international PPP to make TD like YF-22, X-35, with some existing components within 10 years (2030-35) while the PPP/JV goes on & then make final jet & induct in 15-20 years (2040-45).

Its job is to deflect light into absorbptive surfaces or to achieve pass through, so it does the opposite of RAM/RAS.
We see objects bcoz light gets reflected back to our eyes. Instead, if that light is deflected or refracted somewhere else then we'll see a black space in place of the object.

High-speed black programs from the 50s and 60s were later canceled because they were unnecessary. The Americans even had programs for space-going aircraft at the time, so did the Soviets. But the supowerpowers collectively decided to not use space. That also led to the ABM Treaty. It was a choice.

> Apart from rumored ones, since 1990s, these space plane projects (X-20 Dyna-soar, X-33 Venture Star, Rockwell X-30 NASP, BAe HOTOL, etc) have been shown on documentaries on Discovery Channel ,NatGeo, History channel, we grew up watching every episode, some still on YT.

> Obviously in cold war, many projects were launched, cancelled, considered UNNECESSARY due to many reasons -
- to reduce hostility,
- stop arms race which would drain the the finance of any nation with social impacts also,
- satellites could do spying,
- ICBMs could deliver warheads

leading to many treaties like AMB treaty -
- Outer Space Treaty, 1967
- SALT 1, 1972
- SALT 2, 1979
- START 1991, etc big list.

> The experience with costly Space Shuttle, including Challnger disaster, high cost of of XB-70, etc also impacted project decisions.


MW laser can't do sh!t at such heights and ranges.
> On the contrary, hypersonic pilot might shit in spacesuit.

> By MW class i don't mean just 1 MW but 10s of MW.

> The RANGE of detection, firing has to be large enough to disorient incoming missiles, if not destroy.

> Cancelled projects like Don't forget STAR WARS/SDI, Boeing 747 ABL, Zenith Start satellite. But some of these things will return in another form. 6gen in general & MiG-41 are quoted to have DEW.

> Any flying object in space or very high altitude & speed would need thermal skin. It is not neccesarry to destroy the object like shown in movies, animations. Just a crack in skin or damage to sensors can burn, destabilize, destroy the object, like Space Shuttle Columbia.

> just like telescopes are preferred to be place on mountains due to less scattering, a DEW platform would work well at low air density.

> Hypesonic jet, missile would use fossil fuel, hence limited range, action/reaction time. Recent attack by Iran on Israel shows 3 interceptors missed to hit the same missile. But DEW with good aim by RF+IR sensors has better chance.

> USA, Israel, Russia, China, India & others are actively doing R&D on DEW to reduce cost of interceptors not just to shoot down rockets of terrorists, but any supersonic & hypersonic threat.

>A network of DEW platforms from ground & air are already becoming newar-future.


The heck are you talking about? It's within normal parameters for a near-space fighter/interceptor. You can make a smaller aircraft too, like the RLV, but it will have limited on-station time. Even that can be developed, but its utility will be lower for the interception mission.
55T is too low for double speed, double range, and double altitude compared to the Mig-31.

Old estimates of achieving the same using a Mig-31-sized airframe have been unrealistic.

SR-71 is wide and gives 5000 km range, Mig-41 has to surpass that while carrying weapons internally while also being more agile.

> By 100-150 tons you're talking about Tu-22M SIZED COMBAT JET, with the biggest RCS & IRS.

> RLV is just a TD, the actual RLV would be big to launch satellites.

> If you wanna launch AGMs from it then BMs & stand-off weapons are already there.

> if you wanna launch AAMs from it then S-400/500 like VLR-SAMs are there + ABM interceptors who's misses will be addressed by DEW.

> It is said that spy sats killed a hypersonic successor of SR-71.

> After A-12, YF-12 in 1960s, nothing alike got made across globe.


We are slowly entering the era of hyper massive aircraft operating out of space. A high supersonic near-space fighter is a stepping stone for that.
Like i said i believe that high supersonic jets could be made.
I also do believe that space planes will return, at least for commercial purpose. Space Shuttle was just the beginning.
Some say that SR-72 like jet is an existing secret reality.
But a FUTURE MANNED HYPERSONIC COMBAT JET, it is highly unlikely looking at -
- hypersonic ABMs & VLR-SAMs,
- DEW development,
- the fortune cost, CAPEX, OPEX,
- satellite constellations,
- AI/ML development
- pilots wearing space suits & pulling high Gs,
- inter-state turning radius during high speeds.

Still, USA, Russia, China might try to play with their money.
 
The following link says that FCAS will have NGFE with 2x110 KN engines & i wonder how will it carry its big nuke, AShM, etc internally.
How can a Naval 6gen fighter be medium weight?



But a recent unofficial tweet says that NGFE will be 2x145-150 KN. It looks more like personal post rather from regular blogger, thinktank, news agency, etc.

 
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With PDV Mk2, AD1 and Kusha, I highly doubt we will need S500 when it is offered. Waste of money, which could be spent to speed up AD AH and hypersonic missile tracking satellites.

Our BMD (P1/2) is built to defeat SRBMs, MRBMs, and IRBMs. S-500 has been built to defeat ICBMs.

We will need a phase 4 program (P3 is for hypersonic missiles). If we pursue ICBM killers, then the gap between development and maturity can be met by the S-500.
 
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Because we don't want to ruffle American and European feathers. World will only know once DAC clears it. Not before.

They already know UAC and HAL are talking.

They are piching it to us as a JV. IAF team did watch its demo in Russia and it was too good.

IAF did a mini-evaluation last february but full evaluation of Su-57 by IAF is about to begin soon. Watch this space.......;)

Agreed. S-500, if procured, won't arrive before 2030s.

The IAF knows of Su-57's progress, but no evaluation has been done. They only get briefings.