GTRE Kaveri Engine

[HariPrasad]

The news was legit. However, IAF opposed this idea. Now a Mig-29 will be alloted to test a Kaveri prototype.

Sooner or later, we're going to achieve all our goals under Modi regime. Till then you're welcome to continue with your pessimism

Good to read that but no serious effort is visible to make it workable. Efforts like what Parrikar did to make Tejas acceptable by IAF are completely missing. Had we been serious, Tejas would have been flying with Kaveri today. No fund allocation. Some time program stops completely. Some time news are available that some technologies are developed but working engine is far away from being operational because lethargic approach of government.

 

[The Tashkent files]

Key takeaways for me:

• Engine certification for flying has been achieved, more tests planned and expected to end by 2025
• Serial production expected to start by end 2025, start 2026
  
• Dry Kaveri to be used in Ghatak - something we already know
• Post this, DRDO to put up a proposal for funding the development of modified Kaveri with 90KN thrust, to be used in MLU of Tejas Mk1A as a replacement of GE 404!!, clearly calls out the advantages of Kaveri's flat rating over GE 404's performance drop of about 7 to 8%
  

Hopefully AI 2025 will throw more light, those going for it please if you can get as many details as can be publicly shared!!

 

[vstol Jockey]

The Indian standard Atmosphere model has been set at ISA+20*. This in my opinion is wrong. I have flown extensively over India not just as a fighter pilot but also as an Airline Pilot. Only in the heat of End April till Mid June, we experience such deviations, otherwise ISA+15 is a better bench mark. No where in the world we have sea surface Temperature exceeding 30*C. For a Deck Based fighter the flat rating should be just ISA+10*. The IAF asked for ISA+20* because the surface heating and reradiation of heat results in 3-4* extra heat at about 2 meters height. Plus the wind is nearly stagnant when such heating takes place. High winds take away the heat factor and result in what is called chilling factor. In high winds, a 40* temperature may look like just 35*C. Same is true about deck based Operations. The limiting Take Off wind on deck for a fighter aircraft on our Carriers is 28Kts. With the Carrier moving, there is no chance of stagnation of wind to get the air reheated by reflection heat from Deck. I know the chill factor we faced when we used to steam at 28kts on our ships even in summers in Indian Waters.
Once you flat rate an engine, the problem is that even if you get better atmospheric conditions, it still produces the same thrust. This is not good for Carrier based operations as a Carrier can be deployed anywhere in the world.

 

[Tatvamasi]

Key takeaways for me:

Not sure why you are looking for update from this when GTRE director has given a clear presentation.

Engine certification for flying has been achieved, more tests planned and expected to end by 2025

Kaveri derivative for UCAV yes.

Serial production expected to start by end 2025, start 2026

Not really. Only after UCAV gets serial production then only KDE has to.

Dry Kaveri to be used in Ghatak - something we already know

Yes, Kaveri derivative.

Post this, DRDO to put up a proposal for funding the development of modified Kaveri with 90KN thrust, to be used in MLU of Tejas Mk1A as a replacement of GE 404!!, clearly calls out the advantages of Kaveri's flat rating over GE 404's performance drop of about 7 to 8%

Nope, the GTRE director clearly stated a 13% shortfall (71kN) from the original design goal of the Kaveri engine, and they can reach up to 75kN with their current expertise.

Project Kaveri is done, it will never be part of a fighter.

 

[The Tashkent files]

Nope, the GTRE director clearly stated a 13% shortfall (71kN) from the original design goal of the Kaveri engine, and they can reach up to 75kN with their current expertise.

Project Kaveri is done, it will never be part of a fighter.

I don't think so. At present GTRE has capacity to reach 60/90 kn with TET of 1550 *C, with new core. And if this happen, it will go in Tejas Mark 1 A in mid life upgrade.
TET of 1550*C come from DMS 4 SINGLE CRYSTAL BLADES.
Tejas Mark 2 will get SAFRAN GTRE 110 kn engine in mid life upgrade.
What will happen only time will tell.

 

[Ashwin]

I don't think so. At present GTRE has capacity to reach 60/90 kn with TET of 1550 *C, with new core. And if this happen, it will go in Tejas Mark 1 A in mid life upgrade.
TET of 1550*C come from DMS 4 SINGLE CRYSTAL BLADES.
Tejas Mark 2 will get SAFRAN GTRE 110 kn engine in mid life upgrade.
What will happen only time will tell.

Unless there is some serious supply chain constraints after a decade, mark 1A won't need any engine change. It's too expensive with limited upside.

But, I really hope they complete the Kaveri development and demonstrate LCA integration.

 

[The Tashkent files]

Which technique India use to manufacture SCB.
BENZAMIN or Dipping & Heaving.

Anybody please?

 

[sinhirak]

Which technique India use to manufacture SCB.
BENZAMIN or Dipping & Heaving.

Anybody please?

Both . hal use benzamin . DMRL , PTC uses other technique

 

[Tatvamasi]

I don't think so. At present GTRE has capacity to reach 60/90 kn with TET of 1550 *C, with new core.

GTRE director is verbatim saying they can reach 75Kn with current capability.

What do you mean by new core? If its the derivative engine then no. Director gives clear numbers.

And if this happen, it will go in Tejas Mark 1 A in mid life upgrade.

Yup, no tax on dreams yet. But make sure to check budget speech by Nirmala ji. who knows.

 

[TARGET]

GTRE director is verbatim saying they can reach 75Kn with current capability.

What do you mean by new core? If its the derivative engine then no. Director gives clear numbers.


Yup, no tax on dreams yet. But make sure to check budget speech by Nirmala ji. who knows.

The dry thrust variant, which is currently being tested in Russia, built by Godrej Aerospace, is the KDE for the UCAV Ghatak, which is going to use serpentine air intake.

 

[The Tashkent files]

Different generation of SCB

first generation CMSX-2, TMS-12, TMS-26, PWA1480, and Rene N4;

second generation with up to 3 mass percentage rhenium (CMSX-4, Rene N5, TMS 82 + etc.);

third generation with up to 6 mass percentage rhenium (CMSX-10, TMS-75, TMS 80 +, etc.);

fourth generation with rhenium and ruthenium (TMS-138, etc.); and

fifth generation superalloys with iridium, ruthenium, and rhenium

 

[The Tashkent files]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881753037053776047

ToT for GE F-414 India will get:

- Coatings for corrosion
- Casting, machining & coating for turbine blades (Single Crystal)
- Nozzle guide vanes & hot parts
- Blisk machining
- Forging/power metallurgy discs for turbine
- Machining thin-walled titanium casing
- Friction inertia welding for fan & afterburner
- PMC for bypass polymer duct
- CMC for LPNGV & flaps
- Laser drilling for combustor
- Bottle boring of shafts

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881753037053776047

ToT for GE F-414 India will get:

- Coatings for corrosion
- Casting, machining & coating for turbine blades (Single Crystal)
- Nozzle guide vanes & hot parts
- Blisk machining
- Forging/power metallurgy discs for turbine
- Machining thin-walled titanium casing
- Friction inertia welding for fan & afterburner
- PMC for bypass polymer duct
- CMC for LPNGV & flaps
- Laser drilling for combustor
- Bottle boring of shafts

Where did you get the last 5 points from ?

 

[AllStirFry]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1881753037053776047

ToT for GE F-414 India will get:

- Coatings for corrosion
- Casting, machining & coating for turbine blades (Single Crystal)
- Nozzle guide vanes & hot parts
- Blisk machining
- Forging/power metallurgy discs for turbine
- Machining thin-walled titanium casing
- Friction inertia welding for fan & afterburner
- PMC for bypass polymer duct
- CMC for LPNGV & flaps
- Laser drilling for combustor
- Bottle boring of shafts

To all Gurus here,
Could you please share what critical technology is still held back by GE that we do not have currently nor likely to be developed in the near future? thanks !

 

[The Tashkent files]

Where did you get the last 5 points from ?

Second X post.

 

[sinhirak]

To all Gurus here,
Could you please share what critical technology is still held back by GE that we do not have currently nor likely to be developed in the near future? thanks !

Know how and know why - CMC , PMC, MMC , Blings, Additive Manufacturing and other critical materials

 

[The Tashkent files]

If true, a bad news....

http://****/ge-hal-f-414-engine-deal-hits-last-minute-roadblock-as-ge-wants-500-million-more/

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Increase in price is because of increase of Technology provided, perhaps.

 

[HariPrasad]

Increase in price is because of increase of Technology provided, perhaps.

That is exactly what GE says.

 

[HariPrasad]

The changes/design modification come from GTRE, BATL executes it as per spec, I think they still also have to certify the QA with GTRE nominated inspection agency for every stage inspection & QA check. What I mean here is its not entirely their free hand work where you can use your own expertise and make suitable design/spec changes as needed. So how much improvement can be expected ?

Lack of actual details on kaveri imo hints at it being in a standstill sort of situation. Lets see the dry version first, how it works on the ucav platform, trails etc.

The development of the Kaveri engine requires a focused, coordinated, and sustained effort across India’s premier institutes, with each working on specific technologies to address existing gaps. Despite occasional reports of progress, the lack of an integrated approach delays achieving a fully functional engine, as even one missing technology renders the effort incomplete. To fast-track development, all stakeholders must collaborate under a unified strategy with clear milestones, sufficient funding, and resource allocation. The immediate goal should be to develop a version equivalent to the RD-33 within 3–4 years for integration, followed by phased improvements to match Western standards, ensuring seriousness and consistency in the endeavor.

 

[HariPrasad]

yes provided you are able to develop a fuel which has higher specific energy in it and as stable as the JP-5.

But metallurgy need to be superior to handle that high energy fuel. High energy fuel means high temperature, which means higher pressure which need more sophisticated design and batter metallurgy. Rather we can improve compression ratio of existing engine with design and batter metallurgy combination to generate higher thrust. Example GE414 and GE 414 EPE. Your views sir.