Uh no. Speed and altitude are still rated highly which is why F-22 is rated over F-35 as an Air-Superiority fighter despite being inferior in much about everything else. You can reread the 'F-35 is stealthier' quote (and thank me for showing you that link many moons ago)
Which site?
Those are brochure specs. Pilots are not going to launch a 100km missile outside of about 30km. You have to take into account the target will turn and run and finally perform terminal maneuvers. 100km may be the distance where the missile reaches stall speed after traveling in a straight ballistic trajectory when launched at decent speed and altitude, but that is not engagement range against fighter targers.
Oui
Speed and altitude for both F-22 and AMCA will be similar. The F-35's speed and altitude is not as good. So the comparison is bad.
The F-35 is more like the Jaguar, it will be used mostly at low and medium altitudes while the AMCA and F-22 are rigged for high altitude operations, like most air superiority fighters.
Unless you have so much fuel that you can dump half of it and still fly around comfortably, getting to 50,000 feet is very rare even for air superiority fighters. Climbing above 15Km is very taxing on the airframe, engine and obviously the fuel consumption. Only the PAK FA will probably fly higher than all other 5th gen aircraft around.
High altitudes above 15Km is better reserved for aircraft like the Mig-31.
And generally when you want to hide actual specs, you would just say 50,000 feet and mach 1.8. This is the standard figure for public disclosure. It generally gives the area of operations of this fighter. Meaning, an expert can look at it and say "Yeah, this is an air superiority fighter", without the IAF giving away anything else.
This gives the WVR missile a lot more importance.
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Are you 10000000000% sure?
See this is your problem, you assume some theoretically possible best case scenario (which is pretty far out anyway) and then proceed to present your assumption as fact.
F-22 can super cruise to Mach 1.6 operationally and has a service ceiling of 20km+. Similar figures are available for Eurofighter. Both are Mach2+ Air Superiority combat jets.
AMCA doesn't come close.
F-35 performance compares favourably to F-16. AMCA is going to end up with similar results being 20 years later and without JSF's strikepower.
Right. India is the only one hiding it's true power.
Firstly, there is something called the Armstrong limit.
What is the Armstrong Limit?
The Armstrong Limit, also referred to as Armstrong’s line, is the height that has atmospheric pressure so low (6.3 kPa) that the boiling point for water equals the normal human body temperature which is normally 37 degrees Celsius. The Armstrong limit begins at an altitude of approximately 60,000 to 62,000 feet.
So, unless you are wearing a spacesuit, basically a pressure suit, it's better you shouldn't cross 12Km altitude. While the PAK FA's pressure suit can be used up to 23Km, the g-suit can be used up to 12Km. Most of the time, the standard altitudes for air superiority aircraft is in the 9 to 12 Km range. You basically need a pressure suit beyond an altitude of 12Km. That's why, when the advertised height is 15Km, you can easily assume that the aircraft will come with a pressure suit wearing pilot and the aircraft can easily sustain operations above 15Km. The Jaguar is advertised with a service ceiling of 12Km. That's also why jetliners do not cross 12Km.
It's the same thing with mach 1.8. That's the standard speed all air superiority aircraft are advertised for. They can go higher, but that comes at the cost of the aircraft's health. As for supercruise, let's see how the engine choice goes. But with 110KN engines, the aircraft should easily be able to supercruise. The Typhoon can do it with 90KN engines and both AMCA and Typhoon have the same all-up weight.
Do you really think IAF is actually going to give the ADA F-16 and F-35 specs to meet? Even achieving Rafale's specs will push it way past the F-16 and F-35.
If you look closely, you will find that most if the weapons are light missiles (AAM) which don't cross 200kg in weight orr piece. Only 2 are 1000kg bombs and another 2 may be 500kg bombs. But the remaining missiles are light weight ones. So, the total payload is still less than 5ton, even after taking pylon weight as total 700kgThis external configuration in Air superiority weapon load(internal +external weapon bay) config can destroy one full squadron of PAF.
I would love to see the amount of work ADA puts into the composites of the wing and center fuselage of AMCA. We need something better than carbon fiber and titanium alloy to carry this much load on a fighter jet of medium weight category.
You must be out if your mind to compare Typhoon with F22. F22 is far ahead if Typhoon. Typhoon has MToW of 24tonnes with twin 60/90kN engine.AMCA also has 25tonne MToW with similar empty weight. Even if AMCA had Kaveri engines with 65/100kN thrust, the thrust to weight will be better than Typhoon. AMCA will be able to at least match Typhoon in performance.
F22 has 100/160kN engines, empty weight of 19tonnes and MToW of 38 tonnes with internal fuel 8.2 tonnes and 2 tonnes of payload in unternal bays. The thrust to weight of F22 is much higher than that of Typhoon and is not comparable.
Now, coming back to the point. The super cruise does not work with external stires. The drag induced by external stores will be too high for the plane to super cruise. So, super cruise works only with internal load or with external loads limited to BVR missiles for air superiority.
AMCA comes out to be superior to Typhoon in all aspects. Due to internal bays, the air to air role of AMCA will easily beat Typhoon. So, stop hallucinating
Complete bunk of logic. If an aircraft that comes with 15km service ceiling, it is capable of 15km ceiling. If it was higher, then it would be published as such.
You do understand that cockpits are pressurized right. Have you ever flown on a civil airliner? Pressure suit will be required if the pilot plans to eject at high altitude.
Once again complete bunk. Air Superiority fighters are all Mach2+ class and advertised so. Most peak at Mach 2.5.
Okay.
Rafale specifications and performance data
Max. speedM = 1.8 / 750 knots
Service ceiling50,000 ft
Eurofighter Typhoon | The world's most advanced combat aircraft
Max speed 2.0MACH
Max altitude 55,000FT
F-22 Raptor > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display
Speed: mach two class with supercruise capability
Ceiling: above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
F-15 Eagle > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display
Speed: 1,875 mph (Mach 2 class)
Ceiling: 65,000 feet (19,812 meters) ....Since it's no longer a secret.
Ever heard of "being diplomatic"?
We haven't even seen first flight you are already looking for full specs, which I doubt will be released even by 2050.
Cool. Then the AMCA is f**ked.
Let's not forget that the F-22 actually has dedicated bays for WVR missiles, along with J-20 and PAK FA.
I don't think you understand the modern combat. Using Jammers will make the actual location of enemy plane very blurry at long distances. WVR will always be handy. It is not some hollywood movie that you shoot from 100 km always. When fighting an advanced enemy, the distance of engagement can be pretty small. Also, in mountainous terrain, the Air to Air combat will be tight
Well, with the advancements in jamming techniques and MWR technology, the chances of defeating an incoming BVR missile are pretty high now. The WVR combat will remain a very strong possibility but at the extremes of WVR envelope and not exactly in the classic sense of it.
Rafale is not Air-Superiority. Rafale and Typhoon are clearly mentioned Mach 2 class. Streak Eagle already demonstrated M2.5 flight in addition to flying to 103000 feet 40 years ago. According to @randomlogic, AMCA will also be capable of doing that, just as AMCA was supposed to be a F-15 class 14 ton fighter before reality provided the proverbial kick to the guts.
Okay.
Rafale specifications and performance data
Max. speedM = 1.8 / 750 knots
Service ceiling50,000 ft
Eurofighter Typhoon | The world's most advanced combat aircraft
Max speed 2.0MACH
Max altitude 55,000FT
F-22 Raptor > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display
Speed: mach two class with supercruise capability
Ceiling: above 50,000 feet (15 kilometers)
F-15 Eagle > U.S. Air Force > Fact Sheet Display
Speed: 1,875 mph (Mach 2 class)
Ceiling: 65,000 feet (19,812 meters) ....Since it's no longer a secret.
Ever heard of "being diplomatic"?
We haven't even seen first flight you are already looking for full specs, which I doubt will be released even by 2050.
Cool. Then the AMCA is f**ked.
Let's not forget that the F-22 actually has dedicated bays for WVR missiles, along with J-20 and PAK FA.
All those planes also carry guns. Proves nothing.
Yes that's an interesting question. My take was about 5G vs 4G but it remains to be answered how a 5G aircraft is to be engaged by a RF guided missile, which should absolutely have no capacity to track it. Advanced Jammers could easily take down non-aesa missile seekers. But IIR missiles are by no means foolproof as the Syrian Su-22 situation showed. 2-way datalink FTW.
The Syrian case was different. Aim-9X has a useless seeker compared to the one in ASRAAM & MICA which are French MBDA seekers. Even Python-5 has better seeker.
As for the Typhoon:
In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports.
The Rafale beating the F-22 in a dog fight.
I think in terms of technology AMCA may be retrofitted with supercruise engine and thrustvectoring nozzle(only on Kaveri as it’s a Russian tech) ,but we can’t wait for all these tech we have to start from somewhere ...apart from this I am not sure any technology we will be missing since we already designed most of it or get it from market .it will be great achievements for ADA to complete this on schedule time .
Source?
Result of dogfight is irrelevant as dogfight itself. I am sure there is a story behind that evaluation. @BMD.
As for the Typhoon:
In total, 4 different engagements will take place in Corsica, for a total of 9 wins against 1 defeat for the french fighter. A nice demonstration of force that inspires the pilots the following moral: without mastery, power is nothing ... It is however an area where the Typhoon is victorious: the one of exports.
The Rafale beating the F-22 in a dog fight.
Anyway nice of you to forget the other planes.
And good ol' F-15. And Su-27, Mig-29, Su-35, MiG-35
There's Rafale, Typhoon and F-22 in the list. What did I forget?
That they are all much faster, fly much higher. Happen to have much better radars. F-22 has tremendous acceleration.
No amount of
can help you weasel out.