ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tarun
  • Start date Start date
Going through my old hard drive I found some photos. Keep in mind they are all old photos.

Mislabeled as LCA, supposedly the 20x8 cockpit display for the AMCA according to Saurav Jha :

1571208704934.png

The pic above shows an early version of many of the Wide Area Displays(WAD) produced today for various fighters. For example this is the WAD for LCA SPORT :
1571216704563.png


Finite Element Model of the AMCA, circa 2013-14 (source : CSIR-NAL)
1571208749978.png


Finite Element model of the AMCA, circa 2016-17 (source : CSIR-NAL)
1571208762758.png


This is what the report said :
CSIR-NAL has made significant contributions to the ADA’s national progarmme on Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). NAL provided extensive support to structural design and development. The studies in the third phase of AMCA were focused on the design and analysis of airframe using AMCA 3B-09 version model. The design team carried out optimization studies on wing and its control surfaces for strength and buckling constraints.
Preliminary dynamic, flutter analysis and design of forward retraction main landing gear were carried out in the reporting period.

Model 3B-09 as is referred above is this here :
1571216475354.png


3B-01 is where it started and the final refinement ended in the 3B-09. The pic shows the changes in the fighter with time. When the EOI came out it was a modified variant of the 3B-09 :

1571216530110.png
 

Attachments

  • 1571215247836.png
    1571215247836.png
    480.6 KB · Views: 547
Going through my old hard drive I found some photos. Keep in mind they are all old photos.

Mislabeled as LCA, supposedly the 20x8 cockpit display for the AMCA according to Saurav Jha :

1571208704934-png.10781

The pic above shows an early version of many of the Wide Area Displays(WAD) produced today for various fighters. For example this is the WAD for LCA SPORT :
advanced-hawk-cockpit.jpg


Some pics i took during Aero India:

IMG_20190223_142905793.jpg

IMG_20190223_142901188.jpg

IMG_20190223_153342476.jpg

IMG_20190223_153334438.jpg
 
Let us Hope and Pray that IAF ' s Confidence and Belief in AMCA becomes True

one of the main problem was the engine , now if SAFRAN is indulged in supplying us the engines with full TOT then it won't take more than 8-9 years to get us first flight. Design is already there, and the HuDs and electornics has been completed as well in schematics. Just require to test a full fledge aircraft for RCS and that can be only done when it rolls out. That will be the challenge.
 
As per PKS, RoK aiming for 4.5 gen tech FA with first iteration only to gradually upgrade it with time. Wonder if ADA is following the same method.
Even the rafale was Air-to-Air only when they first entered service.

Our IAF won't take any half baked stuff. The only hope is convincing them for IOC, FOC kind of split with some years in between.

By 4.5 gen first version, he meant without internal weapon bays.

Like this AMCA configuration:

amca-1.jpg
 

@China_SCS_Info is correct AMCA and South Koriean KF-X has a lot in common.

No. The South Korean one is not a 5th gen jet. It doesn't come with internal bays. Future iterations will come with IWBs.

As per PKS, RoK aiming for 4.5 gen tech FA with first iteration only to gradually upgrade it with time. Wonder if ADA is following the same method.

No. ADA is going for the big bang approach.
 
No. The South Korean one is not a 5th gen jet. It doesn't come with internal bays. Future iterations will come with IWBs.



No. ADA is going for the big bang approach.
It seems @Ashwin 's knowledge of 5th gen tech & FA in general leaves a lot to be desired. How did you manage to spot this so early on - more than a year back?
 
No. The South Korean one is not a 5th gen jet. It doesn't come with internal bays. Future iterations will come with IWBs
Thats what I said. When you don't use IWB its close to SK design.

No. ADA is going for the big bang approach
Because IAF asked them to. It's cute how you put everything on the designer/developer.

It seems @Ashwin 's knowledge of 5th gen tech & FA in general leaves a lot to be desired. How did you manage to spot this so early on - more than a year back?
Then maybe you should recommended me to your YouTube sir.
 
It seems @Ashwin 's knowledge of 5th gen tech & FA in general leaves a lot to be desired. How did you manage to spot this so early on - more than a year back?

The Korean IWB thing? It was announced officially by Korea many years ago.

The KF-X is going to happen in three stages. In the first stage, the aircraft will be a shaped Typhoon, without IWBs. In the second stage, they will introduce IWBs and target a small amount of RCS reduction, much smaller than Rafale/Typhoon etc, but not as much as the F-35. In the third stage, it will be an F-35 competitor with high levels of stealth. They may club stages 2 and 3.

T7RMKYBLO5CG7BBJUDL7B2HXHQ.png
 
Thats what I said. When you don't use IWB its close to SK design.

Yep. The airframe is basically an AMCA without IWBs. But electronics on KF-X are only up to MWF's level.

Because IAF asked them to. It's cute how you put everything on the designer/developer.

Of course, it's the IAF that makes requirements. Dunno when I said otherwise.

While we are inducting MMRCA after 2025, the Koreans will be introducing their own indigenous MMRCA++. And by the time we induct AMCA, even the Koreans will have an equivalent. It's a well-thought out program. If it wasn't for the squadron drawdown, the IAF wouldn't have an MMRCA program, but both single and dual engine MWF programs instead, perhaps even an AMCA program built similar to Korea's evolutionary approach instead of dual engine MWF. Anything was possible.

But you shouldn't forget that it was DRDO that suggested FGFA is not necessary since they can develop one on their own. That's why AMCA's specs are high. IAF had initially planned a less ambitious AMCA program, without supercruise.
 
Last edited:
Defence ministry to seek Cabinet nod for prototype of desi stealth jet


NEW DELHI: With the IAF now fully backing the indigenous development of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), it’s all systems go for the desi stealth jet. The defence establishment plans to seek the Cabinet Committee on Security’s approval for the detailed design and prototype development of the advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) by early next year.

The twin-engine AMCA will basically combine advanced stealth, supercruise (the capability to achieve supersonic cruise speeds without the use of afterburners), super-manoeuverability, data fusion and multi-sensor integration with AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars.

Development of a FGFA is an extremely complex and costly affair, with the American F/A-22 Raptors and F-35 Lightning-II Joint Strike Fighters being the only fully-operational ones around the globe at present. “Both the Chinese J-20 and the Russian Sukhoi PAK-FA do not have the requisite super-cruise and stealth capabilities,” said a senior IAF officer.

1572315782394.png


DRDO, in turn, rejects widespread concern the developmental saga of the “swing-role” AMCA may go the same way as the long-delayed Tejas light combat aircraft. “The design work on AMCA began in 2009. By 2014-2015, the fighter’s configuration, in tune with IAF requirements, had been worked out.

But the problem was that there was no engine,” said a scientist.

Consequently, the decision has now been taken to go in for two squadrons of AMCA Mark-I with the “available” General Electric-414 afterburning turbofan engine in the 98 Kilonewton thrust class.

“The next five to six squadrons of AMCA Mark-II will have a more powerful 110 Kilonewton engine, which will be developed indigenously with foreign collaboration parallelly. The supercruise of Mark-I will be slightly limited due to the older engine but it will be upgraded in Mark-II,” said a source.

After the Rs 400 crore design sanction for AMCA in December 2018, it will now take “another seven to eight months” for the nod for the prototype development phase at a cost of around Rs 7,000-8,000 crore, which will be required over a decade, said sources.

As per existing plans, the 25-tonne AMCA’s “roll-out from the hangar to the runway” will take place by 2024-2025, with the first test-flight a year after that. “By 2029, the clearance to begin production of AMCA Mark-I should come. Mark-II production, in turn, should begin by 2035,” said the source.

DRDO says the advanced technologies to make AMCA a stealth fighter range from “serpentine air-intake” and an internal weapon bay (internal carriage of smart weapons) to radar absorbing materials and conformal antennae. “Most of the designing for stealth shaping of AMCA has already been done,” he said.

The plan is to produce the single-engine Tejas in greater numbers, with the IAF already committed to acquiring 123 of them. Another 200 Tejas Mark-II, with more powerful engines and advanced avionics, will be inducted at a later stage.

“The first test-flight of Tejas Mark-II or the MWF (medium weight fighter) should take place by 2023. The specialised AMCA, which will cost double the Tejas Mark-II, will be inducted in smaller numbers ... stealth aircraft are expensive,” said the source.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-of-desi-stealth-jet/articleshow/71798166.cms
 
India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft Programme Gathers Steam With New Developments

With the Indian Air Force (IAF) making it clear that it is looking for a homegrown solution for its fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) requirement, the Aeronautical Development Agency’s (ADA’s) Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project seems ready to shift to a higher gear. To be sure, ADA, which is controlled by the Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO), has already made considerable progress towards finalizing the design configuration of the AMCA that will be taken up for full-scale engineering development (FSED). Much work has also been done towards the development of technologies and systems relevant to the AMCA’s design elements. As such, ADA expects to receive a preliminary staff qualitative requirement (PSQR) from the IAF in the coming weeks, which will serve to further inform the development of two AMCA technology demonstrators (AMCA-TDs).

The Expression of Interest (EOI) to build the two TDs was floated back in 2018 itself and has received responses from several domestic firms. However, given that no single player in the domestic private sector can build such a complex system on its own, a consortium approach involving multiple players is likely to be adopted for the construction of these TDs. In a way, it will be a natural outgrowth of the manner in which major sub-assemblies for the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) Tejas Mk1 has been outsourced to multiple companies, with integration, checkout and delivery being done by HAL. Overall, a decision with respect to precisely where the two TDs will be built is expected to be taken up within the next sixth months at the level of the Defence Minister. Be that as it may, both TDs will be ‘full-scope’ demonstrators in keeping with the IAF’s requirements and will be used to test the entire intended flight envelope for the baseline AMCA airframe design. This last part is subject to the availability of higher thrust engines in the future, as we shall see below.

Latest design developments
The AMCA has been designed to be a ‘true’ multi-role twin-engined FGFA with the usual roster of capabilities associated with the same, such as sensor fusion, stealth, supermaneuverability and supercruise (with suitable engines). According to ADA, it will be have max take-off weight of around 25-tons, while being able to carry a maximum of 6.5 tons of fuel internally. Additional fuel for missions may be carried not only in drop tanks hanging from certain underwing stations but also in specially-designed detachable fuel tanks compatible with the AMCA’s internal weapons bay (IWB). Meanwhile, modifications to a range of weapons that will make them suitable for IWB carriage are currently under study. Such modifications would include, for example, the use of folding fins on air to air missiles and glide bombs. Design of ‘eject launchers’ for the IWB is also underway. This ability to carry a mix of fuel and munitions in the IWB will enhance flexibility for both missions where stealth is a priority, as well as where it is not.

AMCA_internal_bay_AI2019.jpg


Image: AMCA Internal Weapons Bay

The two AMCA-TDs will also feature diverterless supersonic inlets (DSIs) instead of the the intakes featured in mockups displayed till date. Design work on DSI is complete and this has apparently resulted in a signification reduction in the overall radar cross-section (RCS) of the baseline AMCA airframe design. As far as flush air data sensors are concerned, ADA’s work on this has grown out of its contribution to ISRO’s Re-Entry Launch Vehicle TD (RLV-TD) project. However, while the RLV-TD flies a predictable and pre-determined path, the flight envelope for the AMCA will be far more complex and a significant amount of work is being put in to achieve flush air data sensing system (FADS) hardware to cater to the same. As of now, a centerline fuel tank carried by a prototype from the LCA family has been modified and fitted with AMCA FADS hardware for the purpose of developmental testing. Interestingly, some developments from the AMCA effort are also finding their way back to the MWF project and even HAL’s Tejas Mk1A programme.

The AMCA baseline design will be developed into two versions suitable for production, namely MkI and MkII. The AMCA MkI configuration will be equipped with an off-the-shelf engine such as the General Electric F414-INS6 which has already been chosen to power the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter (MWF). Although, the AMCA baseline airframe has been designed to be powered by a larger engine producing greater thrust, suitable modifications have already been identified that will allow the AMCA-TDs to incorporate, say, the F414-INS6 instead. This in turn will allow the development of the AMCA MkI configuration to be progressed even as India goes about acquiring/developing a new engine that will allow the AMCA baseline design to achieve its true potential, as it were. In any case, the first AMCA-TD is expected to fly by the fiscal year 2024-25, with the AMCA Mk1 configuration projected to enter series production by 2029-30. The IAF has committed to acquiring a couple of squadrons of the AMCA MkI but is naturally looking forward to the MkII to provide it with a major edge on the Eastern front.

Spiral Development and the AMCA MkII
The AMCA MkII is expected to be produced in greater numbers than the MkI and will be equipped with new engines in the 110 Kilonewton (KN) class that will allow the entire performance envelope of the AMCA baseline design to be achieved. For instance, the AMCA baseline airframe will not be able to supercruise with F-414 INS6 engines. The IAF desires supercruise capability from its FGFA at a certain altitude and that can only be achieved with a higher thrust engine.

At the moment, however, there is no suitable commercially available engine that meets the performance requirements of the AMCA MkII configuration. Of course, multiple foreign original equipment makers (OEMs) have made offers to DRDO to co-develop such an engine in response to a request for information (RFI), but the matter is not settled, so to speak. The idea is for DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) to enter into a joint-venture with a foreign engine OEM to ‘co-develop’ & ‘co-produce’ the desired engine. Unfortunately, even if the issue were to be decided today, this effort would yield a suitable engine only by the early 2030s. Nevertheless, this engine will be designed to be a ‘drop-in’ replacement (in terms of compatibility with connectors etc.) for whatever is used initially on the AMCA-TDs. It is not entirely clear at the moment, whether more TDs will be built in the future to serve the developmental needs of the AMCA MkII configuration.

After all, the AMCA MkII will not merely be the AMCA MkI with a new engine. Certain ‘sixth generation’ characteristics such as the ability to be optionally manned are being envisaged by ADA for the AMCA MkII. Incidentally, automatic take-off and landing (ATOL) capability, which is a key requirement if the AMCA MkII has to be optionally manned, will be initially tested on an LCA-Navy prototype.


ATOL is obviously also a crucial capability for the ‘Ghatak’ single-engined unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV) that is currently under development with DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE). This UCAV will have a wingspan greater than that of the Tejas Mk1. It will be powered by a non-afterburning turbfoan developed from the core of the Kaveri jet engine and an initial sum of Rs 500 crores has been sanctioned for this purpose. ADA says that both the IAF and the Indian Navy have expressed great interest in the Ghatak. The IN, in particular, is desirous of acquiring a carrier capable version that can fly as an unmanned ‘wingman’ with its next generation carrier-based fighter slated to be developed under the Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) programme. But that is a story for another day.
 
The engine is a huge question mark. If the engine becomes ready only in the early 2030s, then the Mk2 will become available only in 2040 or beyond.
 
While it's good for the project itself, it's not good for the military.

An AMCA with F414 is simply a Rafale++ and not a true next generation aircraft.
let's be realistc. This will take time. There are lots of technical milestones to be met. Let's achieve them in phases. The issue with LCA was to develop so many tech together. It won't happen.
 
Design work on DSI is complete and this has apparently resulted in a signification reduction in the overall radar cross-section (RCS) of the baseline AMCA airframe design.
Yes !! I knew this wasn't for nothing :
1573564504561.png

They were never putting out images of the latest model. Even in the EoI it was just a older model.
The intakes seem similar to the F-35 now(this could be an old model too, but its newer than the rest out there) :
1573564538005.png


Early model of the cockpit, again very similar to the F-35 :
1573564628945.png


I do hope she doesn't get fat like the F-35. We also need to put side bays on that thing.