Since when life of one men start defining course of wars? Just imagine how serious objective of all this military action was if danger to one live can offtrack whole process.
Should we cease our intelligence wings to get back Kulbhushan?
Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Since when life of one men start defining course of wars? Just imagine how serious objective of all this military action was if danger to one live can offtrack whole process.
Should we cease our intelligence wings to get back Kulbhushan?
Weird argument. Precaution and preparation are never measures of cowardice, rather absence of them is called stupidity.
Or let me say a Pakistani would have said, to avoid hitting our own Mi17 and kill our own people.
And no shame in not fully knowing enemy move and prepare for worse.
It was always the case but without drama.
You forgot about aerodynamics.
Both pieces falling had aerodynamic surfaces and just weight cannot be the criteria of knowing how long they will take to fall.
Also in F-16 two seat version there is a 6 second timeline from first ejection lever pull to completion of the entire procedure and both pilots out of the plane.
There is a 27kg pull requirement on the level for ejection sequence activation and once activated everything happens automatically . That includes the first step which is canopy jettisoning. No canopy was seen or found.
Whichever pilot pulls it first gets ejected first and the other pilots ejection seat activates after a gap of 1 second.
So ideally there should be a one second gap between both seats falling to the ground. But in the video the gap is longer
That TV anchor was an idiot . You have no idea how much she got trolled on that
@safriz In last of video, the man shooting said "lo ek aur aaya".
Both objects will hit the ground together as the accelaration due to gravity for both will be same 9.81m/s^2. The aircraft was falling uncontrollably to the ground and the pilots had ejected at two different level in the sequence separated by sometime. This brings about a vertical separation between the two as they both eject at different levels. One of the biggest tell tale is that the two seats are separated not only by time but also horizontally. In case of two ejection seats,each seat ejects upwards and to different sides. This is done to ensure that both pilots do not have a collision in air while ejecting on ground level. In sea harrier even the single seater aircraft had ejection to the left because the aircraft was capable of vertical flight and also zero forward speed. So to save the pilot from falling back to the burning wreck of the aircraft, the seat used to eject upwards and to the left. In case an aircraft is breaking apart while crashing, all its debries will fall in same line as its flight path as every part will face nearly same wind flow as the aircraft itself. But these two seats are horizontally separated from the falling aircraft and not in the line of flight path.
Lastly, increase the resolution of the video and freeze the frame, you will very clearly see the ejection seat.
This is the first one.
This is the second one. If you go thru the video carefully, you will see the background for the aircraft and the first seat is same but the second seat is way out of the line.
Yoy must also remember that R-73 had hit the front part of F-16 and both pilots were hurt by shrapnel before ejecting. One of the pilot was so badly injured that he died in CMH later while other hurt pilot was beaten to death. Imagine how badly he was hurt that he could not even identify himself to the people on ground as being a Pakistani. Better picture of second seat.
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Yes..
They were on about the two falling parts seen towards the end of the video.
The two parachute statement was also from similar random civilian making a video then posted online almost instantaneously.
We initially thought it's the MKI out air force shot as all MKI fly with two pilots while PAF has only a few two seater F-16 , mainly used for training.
But later the PAF pilot who fired the AMRAAM his statement clarified that MKI were engaged 40-50 km inside Indian Territory and the falling wreckage seen in the video is too close for that and was Abhinandan and his ejection seat , which also opens a small parachute.
There were only two MKI in the air when Pakistan attacked. One was engaged when he came within his air to air missile range of our strike package.
At that point the Erieye locked on the MKI , Link-16 the data to F-16 which fired the missile and from there onward the missile was very accurately guided by the erieye and it hit the target. As soon as one MKI was hit, the other fled.
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see closely, That is an ACES seat and does not have a drogue chute. The shining part is the reflection of sunrays causing that illusion. Had it been a drogue chute, it would have been seen thruout the video and not only at some angles plus the seat will not tumble like it does in the video. It would have had a clear orientation due to the drogue.
Because we targeted non-military targets, and not both military and terrorists. This allowed us to see the military's response. The follow-on attacks were planned on the military.
We killed hundreds of their terrorists. They failed to do any damage to us.
They beat up Abhinandan, and we still got him back safe and sound after Abhinandan killed two of their pilots.
What's there to escalate from there?
I don't know what you mean here.
Dunno what that means either.
Anyway, we achieved objectives. The point of engaging militarily is to achieve objectives, not engage in pointless bravado. Leave that to the weaklings. Remember how the Chinese couldn't do anything to us after Doklam either? All they got was egg on their face that they put on themselves, and their only response was shouting through their newspapers. Escalation happens when objectives are not met, and that means your previous missions were inadequate, which is why you need to escalate. Remember, we are not at war.
You are an experienced pilot and of all you should know that drogue disengages after some time and does not fall with the seat.
Plus I am not sure if all Pakistani F-16 use ACES seats. Because I remember from 1995 when for some reason I was at Masroor base Karachi where F-16s were based in large numbers at the time.
There was a US sanction going on and it was very strict. They did not give us any parts not even for their ACES seats.
To a degree that there came a time when all PAF F-16 ejection seats became dysfunctional and pilots flew knowing that if something goes wrong , the ejection seats won't work.
Back then there was a plan of replacing ACES seats with Martin Baker as they were less prone to becoming non functional due to American embargo. I don't know if the program went through or not. But I suspect not all Pakistan F-16 use ACES seats.
Russian seats do have separate drogue chutes but Martin Baker and ACES do not have dedicated separate drogues. When the seat fires, a small drogue gun gets fired once the seat travels out of the ejection rail. This drogue pulls out the main drogue which remains attached to the seat till the G force requirement and altitude requirements are met. After that the main drogue pulls out the main parachute and the seat separates from the pilot. In case the seat fails to separate, we have handle on the heat, which once pulled cuts out the main drogue and separates the seat, after that we pulled a handle on our harness which used to deploy the main parachute. This was the system on Martin Baker H4HA and Mk10 seats which I used while ejecting in 1988 & 1993 respectively.
Exactly.
Even Modi was avoiding to acknowledge Abhinandan in Pakistani custody in his TV interview despite being asked by the host.
I don't have a link to that particular interview on 27th February..but the will try to find.
Objective as it seems now was high decibel campaign, image building, some kind of great retribution by King.
Had it been a clear message of we will come for your fking head for killing 40 of our soldiers, one pilot or 10 army men would not have mattered. It was designed for quick TV victory.
Exactly.
So the takeaway from this is that the Drogue won't come down with the seat? But will deploy at the beginning and may look like a second pilot to the onlookers?
Kulbhushan is a civilian. Kidnapped by ISI from Iran. What does that have to do with intelligence?
Abhinandan went across LC during a war crisis and taken as pow on camera, plus his father is a retd air marshal.
Its not just two parachute, pakistan informed media that it downed two Indian fighter planes. Obviously they were unaware that it was one of their own.
Remember all the action took place over POK and pakistan "immediately without delay" informed the media it downed two Indian aircrafts. It means debris of both the aircraft fell in POK but unfortunately for pak only one of them was Indian aircraft. So its not just two pilots but also two aircrafts that pakistan needs to account for. Problem with your story is it does not add up.
Cross posting it from another thread , might help you guys realise that no point wasting time with brain farts....
*********
All these farts built around bander is nothing but farts
The last crash of bander in the Arabian sea which por..... tried to cover up but nevertheless which got out thanks to social media .
That crash says a lot about the banders so called capabilities
Non existence of Disorientation Recovery Function (DRF) mode forget about other advance modes like auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) etc
Bander is a positive stability aircraft by design like 3rd generation aircrafts .
It is not an unstable aerodynamic ( RSS ) design like Rafale typhoon f16 Tejas j20 etc
Only fighter aircraft in the modern era to not implement RSS ( relaxed static stability ) design. Yet I am super duper which even the designers refuse to induct. Because they know it's worth.
Because it is a stable design , it was flying with conventional flight controls and later hybrid flight controls like in passenger aircrafts.
Aerodynamically unstable aircrafts won't be able to even takeoff without a digital fly by wire.
Advantages of RSS design coupled with FULL FBW are
1.it provides good handling capability
2.it also provides invariant response with respect to variations in aerodynamics , fuel etc and facilitates robust performance.
3.it enables the pilot to fly the mission without worrying about exceeding of flight parameters beyond the safe limits.in flight safety is increased.
4.precise response control , reduced lag and overshoots results in vastly improved response and tracking accuracy of the pilot-airframe system.
Aerodynamically unstable aircrafts need full FBW not only to make them fly but to implement advance flight control and safety features like auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) mode ,Disorientation Recovery Function (DRF) mode etc .
So there goes the farts of jf17 bander block 1 and 2 .
Now coming to block 3 , which is literally the same base aircraft by design. Meaning it is aerodynamically stable like the older blocks but with a new con job , that is a FBW .
Any aircraft designer worth his salt will tell you implementing a FBW on a aerodynamically stable aircraft offers no advantage other than SWaP ( size weight and power ) savings . Reason why full FBW requirement in jf17b twin seater and hence implementation first before single seater bander blk 3 .
No ALSR , DRF modes etc , no enhanced maneuverability nothing .
So there goes the farts of jf17 blunder block 3 because it ran short of that too. Now it is shitting
Did I mention hot refuelling , ok forget about it , try hot refuelling with Russian engines bander will disappear in a big fiery fart.
As for KLJ 7A air cooled radar selection tells one thing that is limited power availablity. Oh let's not even mention the form factor limitations due to air cooling.
Also air cooled radars have lower MTBF and as a result degradation in performance, to what extent , that is subject to speculation which I don't want to go into.
Also did somebody realise when jf17 block 1 & 2 actually got its operational certification to fire bvraams.
Anybody ?
Por......... were claiming bvraam firing capability since last 10+ years but ironically
qualification test / handing over of qualification certification for bvr firing capability was done in 2018. I have the video .
So another fart which didn't age too well.
Banders aura of invensibility is in the head of dhoti shivering dimmis with a penchant for gossiping and ofcourse in the well oiled propaganda fart generator of por...........
In the end I will mention
Any aircraft is just an instrument , what equally matters is capabilities of pilot and then the tactics. It's a combination of the three which decides the effectiveness of the same.
So credit the bander only what it is due and for fuccks sake get rid of shitty RoE , better still junk all RoE against enemy combatants.
And kindly request dimmi indians , no dhoti shivering please .
*********
All these farts built around bander is nothing but farts
The last crash of bander in the Arabian sea which por..... tried to cover up but nevertheless which got out thanks to social media .
That crash says a lot about the banders so called capabilities
Non existence of Disorientation Recovery Function (DRF) mode forget about other advance modes like auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) etc
Bander is a positive stability aircraft by design like 3rd generation aircrafts .
It is not an unstable aerodynamic ( RSS ) design like Rafale typhoon f16 Tejas j20 etc
Only fighter aircraft in the modern era to not implement RSS ( relaxed static stability ) design. Yet I am super duper which even the designers refuse to induct. Because they know it's worth.
Because it is a stable design , it was flying with conventional flight controls and later hybrid flight controls like in passenger aircrafts.
Aerodynamically unstable aircrafts won't be able to even takeoff without a digital fly by wire.
Advantages of RSS design coupled with FULL FBW are
1.it provides good handling capability
2.it also provides invariant response with respect to variations in aerodynamics , fuel etc and facilitates robust performance.
3.it enables the pilot to fly the mission without worrying about exceeding of flight parameters beyond the safe limits.in flight safety is increased.
4.precise response control , reduced lag and overshoots results in vastly improved response and tracking accuracy of the pilot-airframe system.
Aerodynamically unstable aircrafts need full FBW not only to make them fly but to implement advance flight control and safety features like auto low-speed recovery (ALSR) mode ,Disorientation Recovery Function (DRF) mode etc .
So there goes the farts of jf17 bander block 1 and 2 .
Now coming to block 3 , which is literally the same base aircraft by design. Meaning it is aerodynamically stable like the older blocks but with a new con job , that is a FBW .
Any aircraft designer worth his salt will tell you implementing a FBW on a aerodynamically stable aircraft offers no advantage other than SWaP ( size weight and power ) savings . Reason why full FBW requirement in jf17b twin seater and hence implementation first before single seater bander blk 3 .
No ALSR , DRF modes etc , no enhanced maneuverability nothing .
So there goes the farts of jf17 blunder block 3 because it ran short of that too. Now it is shitting
Did I mention hot refuelling , ok forget about it , try hot refuelling with Russian engines bander will disappear in a big fiery fart.
As for KLJ 7A air cooled radar selection tells one thing that is limited power availablity. Oh let's not even mention the form factor limitations due to air cooling.
Also air cooled radars have lower MTBF and as a result degradation in performance, to what extent , that is subject to speculation which I don't want to go into.
Also did somebody realise when jf17 block 1 & 2 actually got its operational certification to fire bvraams.
Anybody ?
Por......... were claiming bvraam firing capability since last 10+ years but ironically
qualification test / handing over of qualification certification for bvr firing capability was done in 2018. I have the video .
So another fart which didn't age too well.
Banders aura of invensibility is in the head of dhoti shivering dimmis with a penchant for gossiping and ofcourse in the well oiled propaganda fart generator of por...........
In the end I will mention
Any aircraft is just an instrument , what equally matters is capabilities of pilot and then the tactics. It's a combination of the three which decides the effectiveness of the same.
So credit the bander only what it is due and for fuccks sake get rid of shitty RoE , better still junk all RoE against enemy combatants.
And kindly request dimmi indians , no dhoti shivering please .
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that's your answer right there your PAF just lobbed some AMRAAMS at max range and ran away thinking they could kill a MKI , but didnt dared to cross border and get in WVR with them.
@safriz How do you clarify gafoora's statement of Second pilot died at Hospital on 5th March on television?