Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS

_Anonymous_ said:
Firestarter (@Firezstarter1) Tweeted:
Five more Netra in the works!! Apart from the 6 large platforms planned. SPG picks up JVPC! Sandeep on Twitter (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201458139683377152
)

Another ignorant troll. What does he know @Gautam
Click to expand...
I wonder if these jets were acquired before or after the Embraer corruption case. The air frame would need to be modified, that requires the OEM's help. But wasn't Embraer banned ? Was the ban lifted ? Was the ban ever enforced ? If the jets were acquired before, why did it take so long to get them ready ?

I can only hope the MoD is a little less confused than me.
 
Gautam said:
I wonder if these jets were acquired before or after the Embraer corruption case. The air frame would need to be modified, that requires the OEM's help. But wasn't Embraer banned ? Was the ban lifted ? Was the ban ever enforced ? If the jets were acquired before, why did it take so long to get them ready ?

I can only hope the MoD is a little less confused than me.
Click to expand...
The original NETRA program terminated with 3 jets. Period. I believe the ban on EMBRAER to be in action. However, there may be scope for some relief given that the OEM stands guarantee for the platform & for spares. Moreover, there's been talk a year back of EMBRAER urging CABS/ DRDO to consider joint marketing of such platforms to third parties. That went into the cold storage, I guess.

Given the resource crunch I'm further guessing IAF & ACM Bhadauria are playing smart opting for indigenous platforms as a low cost option. It remains sub obtimal but quantities has a quality of its own. Besides, I believe that the 2 A330 will manifest itself shortly. However, by the time it becomes a fully validated platform, we'd be close to the end of 2030's.

Then we can go in for 8-10 or 10-12 such numbers. Till then the NETRAs would serve the purpose post which it'd be relegated to a secondary role along with blimps, aerostat mounted radars, etc. I sincerely wonder why aren't we going in for the additional 2 PHALCONS unless both the Israelis & Russians have upped their prices. Guess that's why the A330's option was exercised.
 
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Gautam said:
I wonder if these jets were acquired before or after the Embraer corruption case. The air frame would need to be modified, that requires the OEM's help. But wasn't Embraer banned ? Was the ban lifted ? Was the ban ever enforced ? If the jets were acquired before, why did it take so long to get them ready ?

I can only hope the MoD is a little less confused than me.
Click to expand...
IAF is most probably going for C-295 as an AWACS platform for the 5 NETRA AWACS.
 
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Gautam said:
I wonder if these jets were acquired before or after the Embraer corruption case. The air frame would need to be modified, that requires the OEM's help. But wasn't Embraer banned ? Was the ban lifted ? Was the ban ever enforced ? If the jets were acquired before, why did it take so long to get them ready ?

I can only hope the MoD is a little less confused than me.
Click to expand...
IAF always preferred AWACS over DRDO AEW&CS because of its obvious limitations. A limited number of AEW&CS development was taken up as a way to build expertise for the bigger AWACS program. Development is already done so there is no need for OEM involvement per se.

AFAIK, Embraer is not banned but there is an open CBI case. Absolute superiority of Phalcon and CBI case made more Netra a less preferred option. Now the high price demand by the russians and delayed DRDO AWACS program makes more Netra their only choice.
 
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Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
Air Chief is pushing for induction of 5 more Netra AEW&CS system, which is likely to be mounted on the Airbus C-295 airframe in the same two radiating planar arrays assembled back-to-back and mounted on top of the fuselage to provide 240° coverage.(1/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853548666863616
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
At the Aero India 2019 DRDO’s had showcased its C295 AEW&C concept for the first time and had revealed its plans to integrate the same radar on the new platform. Airbus recently confirmed that it is close to sealing a deal for the manufacturing of C-295 transport from(2/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853550411702274
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
India to replace the aging Avro Hawker Siddeley HS748 fleet. DRDO will also be working on the development of the Airbus A330 AWACS Platform to provide 360° coverage like seen in the IL-76 Phalcon AWACS operated by the IAF and recently purchase of Two Airbus A330 was cleared(3/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853552378830849
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
by MOD in total 6 aircraft will be acquired in 3 phases of two aircrafts each. IAF has plans to induct Six Airbus A330 AWACS n 5 C295 Netra AEW&C which along with 3 L-76 Phalcon and 3 Netra ERJ 145 AEW&C will take the total of AWACS assets to the 17 while need is for 20 aircraft. (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853553989414912
)
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
Air Chief is pushing for induction of 5 more Netra AEW&CS system, which is likely to be mounted on the Airbus C-295 airframe in the same two radiating planar arrays assembled back-to-back and mounted on top of the fuselage to provide 240° coverage.(1/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853548666863616
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
At the Aero India 2019 DRDO’s had showcased its C295 AEW&C concept for the first time and had revealed its plans to integrate the same radar on the new platform. Airbus recently confirmed that it is close to sealing a deal for the manufacturing of C-295 transport from(2/4) (Aerodynamics on Twitter)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
India to replace the aging Avro Hawker Siddeley HS748 fleet. DRDO will also be working on the development of the Airbus A330 AWACS Platform to provide 360° coverage like seen in the IL-76 Phalcon AWACS operated by the IAF and recently purchase of Two Airbus A330 was cleared(3/4) (Aerodynamics on Twitter)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
by MOD in total 6 aircraft will be acquired in 3 phases of two aircrafts each. IAF has plans to induct Six Airbus A330 AWACS n 5 C295 Netra AEW&C which along with 3 L-76 Phalcon and 3 Netra ERJ 145 AEW&C will take the total of AWACS assets to the 17 while need is for 20 aircraft. (Aerodynamics on Twitter)
 
_Anonymous_ said:
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
Air Chief is pushing for induction of 5 more Netra AEW&CS system, which is likely to be mounted on the Airbus C-295 airframe in the same two radiating planar arrays assembled back-to-back and mounted on top of the fuselage to provide 240° coverage.(1/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853548666863616
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
At the Aero India 2019 DRDO’s had showcased its C295 AEW&C concept for the first time and had revealed its plans to integrate the same radar on the new platform. Airbus recently confirmed that it is close to sealing a deal for the manufacturing of C-295 transport from(2/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853550411702274
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
India to replace the aging Avro Hawker Siddeley HS748 fleet. DRDO will also be working on the development of the Airbus A330 AWACS Platform to provide 360° coverage like seen in the IL-76 Phalcon AWACS operated by the IAF and recently purchase of Two Airbus A330 was cleared(3/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853552378830849
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
by MOD in total 6 aircraft will be acquired in 3 phases of two aircrafts each. IAF has plans to induct Six Airbus A330 AWACS n 5 C295 Netra AEW&C which along with 3 L-76 Phalcon and 3 Netra ERJ 145 AEW&C will take the total of AWACS assets to the 17 while need is for 20 aircraft. (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853553989414912
)
Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
Air Chief is pushing for induction of 5 more Netra AEW&CS system, which is likely to be mounted on the Airbus C-295 airframe in the same two radiating planar arrays assembled back-to-back and mounted on top of the fuselage to provide 240° coverage.(1/4) (
https://twitter.com/x/status/1201853548666863616
)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
At the Aero India 2019 DRDO’s had showcased its C295 AEW&C concept for the first time and had revealed its plans to integrate the same radar on the new platform. Airbus recently confirmed that it is close to sealing a deal for the manufacturing of C-295 transport from(2/4) (Aerodynamics on Twitter)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
India to replace the aging Avro Hawker Siddeley HS748 fleet. DRDO will also be working on the development of the Airbus A330 AWACS Platform to provide 360° coverage like seen in the IL-76 Phalcon AWACS operated by the IAF and recently purchase of Two Airbus A330 was cleared(3/4) (Aerodynamics on Twitter)

Aerodynamics (@Aerodynamic111) Tweeted:
by MOD in total 6 aircraft will be acquired in 3 phases of two aircrafts each. IAF has plans to induct Six Airbus A330 AWACS n 5 C295 Netra AEW&C which along with 3 L-76 Phalcon and 3 Netra ERJ 145 AEW&C will take the total of AWACS assets to the 17 while need is for 20 aircraft. (Aerodynamics on Twitter)
Click to expand...
Looks like hot air based on a aero india model of C295.

Integration with the new platform itself will take 3-4 years. Then it's better to wait for more capable desi AWACS. Requirement is immediate ie, Embraer Netra.

Total projected requirement is no more than 13-15 platform AEW&C and AWACS mix.
 
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Ashwin said:
Looks like hot air based on a aero india model of C295.

Integration with the new platform itself will take 3-4 years. Then it's better to wait for more capable desi AWACS. Requirement is immediate ie, Embraer Netra.

Total projected requirement is no more than 13-15 platform AEW&C and AWACS mix.
Click to expand...
Anyway, by the time the deal for C-295 is signed & the plant geared to manufacture under MII, it should be 2025-26 . By which time our A330's should be well on the way to induction. Makes no sense to depend on the C295. If there's an urgent need, which there is, it has to be the tried & tested EMBRAER and immediately.
 
C-295 with propellers do not have the altitude or the speed to be a decent AWACS. It has to be modified with jet engines instead.

And dropping the number of large AWACS is not a good idea, but I guess that's the limit of our current finances. And with the 2 Phalcons cancelled, our only hope is Netra or imports.

With a 7-year wait time for AWACS-India, which seems to have been pushed forward and will most certainly be delayed even further, I suspect there is room being made to bring in imports instead. Like the Boeing 737 with the top hat configuration. I'm sure someone in the IAF or govt will justify the purchase of a few American made AWACS.
 
Air Force set to get two more warning systems

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

Updated: Jan 05, 2020 08:02 IST
By Shishir Gupta
1578198555335.png


The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) last month cleared a Rs 9,000 crore joint proposal of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force to purchase two Airbus 330s and convert them into 360-degree long-range capability Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), senior officials familiar with the development said on Saturday.

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

“The need for more AWACS was acutely felt post the Balakot air strike, with Pakistan being able to deploy its SAAB AWACS 24x7 in the north and south sectors and India being able to cover the two theatres only for 12 hours each day,” one of the officials cited above said.

The DRDO has also decided to hand over a third Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning system to the IAF (Indian Air Force) to further enhance Indian capability in battlefield theatre. The IAF already has two Israeli PHALCON radars mounted on a Russian A-50 platform and two DRDO-developed radars mounted on Embraer platforms.

According to the proposal cleared by the DAC, the Airbus AWACS will be a 50:50 joint venture between the DRDO and the IAF. Once the aircraft are purchased, the DRDO will mount a 360-degree rotor dome radar along with state of the art communication capability to guide the IAF fighters and attack helicopters in future war theatres, one of the officials cited above said.

The AWACS not only tracks the aerial threat, be it a fighter or a missile, but also guides the counter-response. Had it not been for PHALCON AWACS, the Indian response to the February 27 Pakistani counter-strike would have been weak and the IAF would never have known that Wing Commander Abhinandan had downed a Pakistan Air Force fighter code-named Red Mike on the radar. Whether Red Mike was an American F-16 sold by Jordan to Pakistan or any other fighter is still not confirmed.

Air Force set to get two more warning systems
 
Gautam said:
Air Force set to get two more warning systems

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

Updated: Jan 05, 2020 08:02 IST
By Shishir Gupta
View attachment 12690

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) last month cleared a Rs 9,000 crore joint proposal of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force to purchase two Airbus 330s and convert them into 360-degree long-range capability Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), senior officials familiar with the development said on Saturday.

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

“The need for more AWACS was acutely felt post the Balakot air strike, with Pakistan being able to deploy its SAAB AWACS 24x7 in the north and south sectors and India being able to cover the two theatres only for 12 hours each day,” one of the officials cited above said.

The DRDO has also decided to hand over a third Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning system to the IAF (Indian Air Force) to further enhance Indian capability in battlefield theatre. The IAF already has two Israeli PHALCON radars mounted on a Russian A-50 platform and two DRDO-developed radars mounted on Embraer platforms.

According to the proposal cleared by the DAC, the Airbus AWACS will be a 50:50 joint venture between the DRDO and the IAF. Once the aircraft are purchased, the DRDO will mount a 360-degree rotor dome radar along with state of the art communication capability to guide the IAF fighters and attack helicopters in future war theatres, one of the officials cited above said.

The AWACS not only tracks the aerial threat, be it a fighter or a missile, but also guides the counter-response. Had it not been for PHALCON AWACS, the Indian response to the February 27 Pakistani counter-strike would have been weak and the IAF would never have known that Wing Commander Abhinandan had downed a Pakistan Air Force fighter code-named Red Mike on the radar. Whether Red Mike was an American F-16 sold by Jordan to Pakistan or any other fighter is still not confirmed.

Air Force set to get two more warning systems
Click to expand...

Only the news is getting printed year after year..
It's surprise after building netra in 3 nos. We choose to leave a decade of gap.

Hoping it is not one of criminal negligence. And we don't suffer because of it.
 
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Gautam said:
Air Force set to get two more warning systems

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

Updated: Jan 05, 2020 08:02 IST
By Shishir Gupta
View attachment 12690

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) last month cleared a Rs 9,000 crore joint proposal of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force to purchase two Airbus 330s and convert them into 360-degree long-range capability Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), senior officials familiar with the development said on Saturday.

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

“The need for more AWACS was acutely felt post the Balakot air strike, with Pakistan being able to deploy its SAAB AWACS 24x7 in the north and south sectors and India being able to cover the two theatres only for 12 hours each day,” one of the officials cited above said.

The DRDO has also decided to hand over a third Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning system to the IAF (Indian Air Force) to further enhance Indian capability in battlefield theatre. The IAF already has two Israeli PHALCON radars mounted on a Russian A-50 platform and two DRDO-developed radars mounted on Embraer platforms.

According to the proposal cleared by the DAC, the Airbus AWACS will be a 50:50 joint venture between the DRDO and the IAF. Once the aircraft are purchased, the DRDO will mount a 360-degree rotor dome radar along with state of the art communication capability to guide the IAF fighters and attack helicopters in future war theatres, one of the officials cited above said.

The AWACS not only tracks the aerial threat, be it a fighter or a missile, but also guides the counter-response. Had it not been for PHALCON AWACS, the Indian response to the February 27 Pakistani counter-strike would have been weak and the IAF would never have known that Wing Commander Abhinandan had downed a Pakistan Air Force fighter code-named Red Mike on the radar. Whether Red Mike was an American F-16 sold by Jordan to Pakistan or any other fighter is still not confirmed.

Air Force set to get two more warning systems
Click to expand...

We only 2 Phalcons ?

What is this a step down from downed F16? Code Red Mike - unconfirmed?

It s opening debate again.
 
Sathya said:
We only 2 Phalcons ?
Click to expand...
3 in service. 2 more were to be ordered. Don't know what happened there.
Sathya said:
What is this a step down from downed F16? Code Red Mike - unconfirmed?

It s opening debate again.
Click to expand...
From the looks of it MoD will keep searching for it until they find definite evidence to nail Pakistan. They would've directed intelligence to get on it by now.
 
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Gautam said:
Air Force set to get two more warning systems

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

Updated: Jan 05, 2020 08:02 IST
By Shishir Gupta
View attachment 12690

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) last month cleared a Rs 9,000 crore joint proposal of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force to purchase two Airbus 330s and convert them into 360-degree long-range capability Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), senior officials familiar with the development said on Saturday.

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

“The need for more AWACS was acutely felt post the Balakot air strike, with Pakistan being able to deploy its SAAB AWACS 24x7 in the north and south sectors and India being able to cover the two theatres only for 12 hours each day,” one of the officials cited above said.

The DRDO has also decided to hand over a third Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning system to the IAF (Indian Air Force) to further enhance Indian capability in battlefield theatre. The IAF already has two Israeli PHALCON radars mounted on a Russian A-50 platform and two DRDO-developed radars mounted on Embraer platforms.

According to the proposal cleared by the DAC, the Airbus AWACS will be a 50:50 joint venture between the DRDO and the IAF. Once the aircraft are purchased, the DRDO will mount a 360-degree rotor dome radar along with state of the art communication capability to guide the IAF fighters and attack helicopters in future war theatres, one of the officials cited above said.

The AWACS not only tracks the aerial threat, be it a fighter or a missile, but also guides the counter-response. Had it not been for PHALCON AWACS, the Indian response to the February 27 Pakistani counter-strike would have been weak and the IAF would never have known that Wing Commander Abhinandan had downed a Pakistan Air Force fighter code-named Red Mike on the radar. Whether Red Mike was an American F-16 sold by Jordan to Pakistan or any other fighter is still not confirmed.

Air Force set to get two more warning systems
Click to expand...
So 3 years for buying then A-330s and integrating the radar dome or simply for the file to pass through the great Indian bureaucracy??
 
Aniruddha said:
So 3 years for buying then A-330s and integrating the radar dome or simply for the file to pass through the great Indian bureaucracy??
Click to expand...
3 years after clearence the A330 will be ready with the radome and will probably be under going flight tests.
Gautam said:
The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.
Click to expand...
 
Wait what ?!?! 3+6 NETRA, 20 upgraded NETRA AEW&CS & 2 DRDO AWACS. Bringing the total to 31, and this is excluding the 3+2 Phalcons. IAF sure plans big.:eek:
Its another matter that their plans don't quite materialise.:cautious:
Screenshot (759).png
 
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Gautam said:
Wait what ?!?! 3+6 NETRA, 20 upgraded NETRA AEW&CS & 2 DRDO AWACS. Bringing the total to 31, and this is excluding the 3+2 Phalcons. IAF sure plans big.:eek:
Its another matter that their plans don't quite materialise.:cautious:
View attachment 14144
Click to expand...
The report towards the end says IAF has placed orders for another 6 Netras.. When was that ?
 
Gautam said:
Wait what ?!?! 3+6 NETRA, 20 upgraded NETRA AEW&CS & 2 DRDO AWACS. Bringing the total to 31, and this is excluding the 3+2 Phalcons. IAF sure plans big.:eek:
Its another matter that their plans don't quite materialise.:cautious:
View attachment 14144
Click to expand...

Sulla84 said:
The report towards the end says IAF has placed orders for another 6 Netras.. When was that ?
Click to expand...

It's misleading.

The article is trying to say that apart from the 3 Netras ordered, IAF plans on ordering 6 AWACS-India in the short term and as many as 20 in the long term.

So that's 3 Netras + 6 AWACS-India + 20 AWACS-India. Apart from the 3 or 5 Phalcons.
 
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