Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions

[randomradio]

Source?
TN-80 itself weighs 200 KG, FYI.

Look it up yourself. You still haven't found me a link which says ASMP's payload is 300Kg.

Do you have a source for weight of the the said seeker?

That's how clever you are. It's not about weight, it's about size. Seekers are big, look up Brahmos' seeker, it's availabe on the net. Seekers take up size that's suppose to make the missile thinner and smaller or take up room for fuel. It's also the reason why Brahmos is fatter, 'cause it needs to have a seeker with a large enough antenna in order to find its target before it reaches a point when it can no longer change its direction. Due to the increase in seeker diameter, it's obvious that the airframe needs to be bigger. It's the same reason why an aircraft that has a 900-1000mm radar is a giant whereas 600-700mm radar carrying aircraft are small. And with a larger seeker and bigger warhead, you need a bigger airframe, which in turns increases weight, which in turn needs a more powerful engine, which in turn needs a lot of fuel, hence the higher overall weight.

LRASM uses a longer seeker, which takes up even more room for fuel. Hence the 40% reduction in range.

This is what I meant when you don't even have the basic common sense knowledge about why missiles are designed the way they are. No one with such basic knowledge will actually compare missiles of different classes meant for different roles.

Unrelated.

Of course, you will find it unrelated. Obviously nothing surprising to me.

LRASM needs a 900Kg booster to boost a 1100Kg missile to altitude. Brahmos needs a 1000Kg booster to boost a 2000Kg missile to altitude. So, going by your logic, Russian boosters are nearly 100% more efficient than American boosters. That's how dumb your arguments are. Not only that, LRASM only needs a speed above 800Kmph as its initial speed whereas Brahmos booster has to take the missile to above mach 2 for the ramjet to kick in. So wouldn't you say Russians boosters are practically magic then?

Well, I don't want to learn, I want to see sources and evidence of your assertion.

It's impossible for you anyway.

Source of "Expensive RAM-jet fuel".

The Russians export downgraded fuel compared to what they use for their own stuff. Pretty much on everything that doesn't come out of a civilian refinery.

Source of "150 KG" payload of ASMP.

Look it up.

Source of Brahmos seeker weight.

No common sense.

If you don't have the source then you are just blabbering bullshit.

Whatever makes you happy. Nothing I have said requires anything more than common sense to figure out.

 

[Saaho]

Look it up yourself. You still haven't found me a link which says ASMP's payload is 300Kg.

Here it is : France's Nuclear Weapons - Development of the French Arsenal
Weight of TN-80, the nuclear bomb in ASMP is 200 KG. Payload of ASMP is 200-300 KG to carry a 200 KG bomb.

Of course, you will find it unrelated. Obviously nothing surprising to me.

LRASM needs a 900Kg booster to boost a 1100Kg missile to altitude. Brahmos needs a 1000Kg booster to boost a 2000Kg missile to altitude. So, going by your logic, Russian boosters are nearly 100% more efficient than American boosters. That's how dumb your arguments are. Not only that, LRASM only needs a speed above 800Kmph as its initial speed whereas Brahmos booster has to take the missile to above mach 2 for the ramjet to kick in. So wouldn't you say Russians boosters are practically magic then?

Unrelated.

It's impossible for you anyway.

Sources first rest later.

Look it up.

It does not exist, you are lying.

No common sense.

Less bullshit, more facts and sources.

The Russians export downgraded fuel compared to what they use for their own stuff. Pretty much on everything that doesn't come out of a civilian refinery.

Thats not a source. Give a source for your claim or say you were bull shitting.

Whatever makes you happy. Nothing I have said requires anything more than common sense to figure out.

Common sense without any fact is non sense.

 

[randomradio]

Here it is : France's Nuclear Weapons - Development of the French Arsenal
Weight of TN-80, the nuclear bomb in ASMP is 200 KG. Payload of ASMP is 200-300 KG to carry a 200 KG bomb.


Unrelated.


Sources first rest later.


It does not exist, you are lying.


Less bullshit, more facts and sources.


Thats not a source. Give a source for your claim or say you were bull shitting.


Common sense without any fact is non sense.

Wow, 200 Kg is 300 Kg. Yeah, okay, dude. Cheers.

 

[Ashwin]

Now that you are venturing into Hypersonic world, what are the great challenges that you encounter working on a new engineering paradigm, new aerodynamics, new materials and new configuration? In the niche, elite technological exclusivity of Hypersonics, how do you fare internationally?

The hypersonic BRAHMOS-II (K) is envisioned to become the fastest cruise missile system in the world by flying at a top speed of 7-8 Mach (seven to eight times the speed of sound). The hypersonic missile will definitely provide an advantage to the Indian armed forces in future warfare. The challenges are many in developing such a break-through technology. NPOM has already started ground work for the hypersonic variant and hope to hit the sky by 2028. DRDO, from its end has already test-fired Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV), precursor for the development of a hypersonic cruise missile system.

Aeromag

www.aeromag.in

 

[Saaho]

Wow, 200 Kg is 300 Kg. Yeah, okay, dude. Cheers.

200-300 Kg is payload range genius. The missiles payload capacity is not just bomb's weight but a little bit more to accomodate hardening too. ]

Now enough about my facts and figures, out with your source of "expensive fuel". I guess you are wimp enough not to address that.

 

[randomradio]

200-300 Kg is payload range genius. The missiles payload capacity is not just bomb's weight but a little bit more to accomodate hardening too. ]

 

[Hydra]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438172543001640967

 

[randomradio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438172543001640967

The Koreans have been taking a lot of Russian assistance in missile development.

 

[Chain Smoker]

The Koreans have been taking a lot of Russian assistance in missile development.

It's ramjet simulation was done by Indian company zeus numerix.

 

[Gautam]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438172543001640967

The Koreans have been taking a lot of Russian assistance in missile development.

It's ramjet simulation was done by Indian company zeus numerix.

Here, posted about it on forum long back. Posted on twitter too:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276749607922552839

This is probably the 290km version. Nonetheless a very potent AShM. Our defence relationship with the Koreans have taken off recently. First the K9/K10, then the DRDO/L&T-Hanwa light tank & now this. There was a logistical agreement signed & an intelligence cooperation agreement coming up too. Hopefully the Army orders the Biho soon.

I hope we sell the B8 &/or VL-SRSAMs to the Koreans too. They will need that to defeat the Chinese supersonic AShMs. In return they can help us design the P-18 class destroyers. The Sejong class destroyers could be a good starting point for the P-18 class.

 

[randomradio]

Here, posted about it on forum long back. Posted on twitter too:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276749607922552839

This is probably the 290km version. Nonetheless a very potent AShM. Our defence relationship with the Koreans have taken off recently. First the K9/K10, then the DRDO/L&T-Hanwa light tank & now this. There was a logistical agreement signed & an intelligence cooperation agreement coming up too. Hopefully the Army orders the Biho soon.

I hope we sell the B8 &/or VL-SRSAMs to the Koreans too. They will need that to defeat the Chinese supersonic AShMs. In return they can help us design the P-18 class destroyers. The Sejong class destroyers could be a good starting point for the P-18 class.

The Biho is apparently out. It's now an atmanirbhar project.

They have their own SAMs too. The Koreans are in fact offering the K-SAAM for the Kamorta class.

 

[Gautam]

The Biho is apparently out. It's now an atmanirbhar project.

Interesting. So the Russians have managed to scuttle it.

What platform will they use ? Oh God, its going to be the BMP again isn't it ? Which missiles ? DRDO's upcoming MANPADS ? Guns ? Some Soviet/Russian cannon ?

I hope the MoD don't sleep on this.

They have their own SAMs too. The Koreans are in fact offering the K-SAAM for the Kamorta class.

I know that. I don't know if their SAMs have been tested against supersonic sea skimming missiles. Maybe we can provide some help with that.

I just want Delhi to up arm them whichever way possible.

 

[randomradio]

Interesting. So the Russians have managed to scuttle it.

What platform will they use ? Oh God, its going to be the BMP again isn't it ? Which missiles ? DRDO's upcoming MANPADS ? Guns ? Some Soviet/Russian cannon ?

I hope the MoD don't sleep on this.

Yeah, quite successfully, and I even agree with them. The Biho is not suitable for 10 years down the line when AESA's going to be important. The Biho 2 otoh...

I'm guessing it's going to the private sector, in the FICV format. So the Biho will have to enter indirectly along with other foreign competitors.

I know that. I don't know if their SAMs have been tested against supersonic sea skimming missiles. Maybe we can provide some help with that.

Supersonic target drones are available.

I just want Delhi to up arm them whichever way possible.

They are way more self-sufficient than you would think. The only thing important I can think of is Astra Mk3, but the Americans will refuse its integration on the F-35, hence denied. The same for anything meant for their air force, if it cannot go on the F-35, it won't go to Korea. Indonesia is a better candidate for this. Our BMD must never be exported, never mind the fact that they need systems that are fully interoperable with the Americans, so even that's a no-go. They have no need to import ships, subs, fighters, helicopters, artillery and armoured vehicles, particularly the ones we can offer. Then they have their own TBMs.

Our LR-LACM is a bit unique, but that's about it.

 

[Gautam]

Yeah, quite successfully, and I even agree with them. The Biho is not suitable for 10 years down the line when AESA's going to be important. The Biho 2 otoh...

I'm guessing it's going to the private sector, in the FICV format. So the Biho will have to enter indirectly along with other foreign competitors.

I wonder how long will this take.

Supersonic target drones are available.

Yes. The Japanese used supersonic drones from Raytheon for testing their SAMs. Not sure if those drones have TERCOM or Sea skimming modes though.

They are way more self-sufficient than you would think. The only thing important I can think of is Astra Mk3, but the Americans will refuse its integration on the F-35, hence denied. The same for anything meant for their air force, if it cannot go on the F-35, it won't go to Korea. Indonesia is a better candidate for this. Our BMD must never be exported, never mind the fact that they need systems that are fully interoperable with the Americans, so even that's a no-go. They have no need to import ships, subs, fighters, helicopters, artillery and armoured vehicles, particularly the ones we can offer. Then they have their own TBMs.

Our LR-LACM is a bit unique, but that's about it.

Compatibility is always a concern. I am wondering if the supersonic AShM the Koreans just tested are compatible with the VLS on their ships. Even the 290km ranged Brahmos isn't exactly a small missile. Perhaps they can use inclined launchers instead of VLS.

I don't care much for exporting ships, helos etc. Keep supplying technologies that would make the Korean Armed Forces a bigger headache for China. I wouldn't mind if we handed over the SFDR or the LFRJ either.

 

[randomradio]

I wonder how long will this take.

The army will release a PSQR, so those with money will start development soon after. Whenever they get ready, a tender will be announced, and then the usual rigmarole.

Yes. The Japanese used supersonic drones from Raytheon for testing their SAMs. Not sure if those drones have TERCOM or Sea skimming modes though.

Drones are capable of sea skimming.

India is also developing a drone called STAR.

Compatibility is always a concern. I am wondering if the supersonic AShM the Koreans just tested are compatible with the VLS on their ships. Even the 290km ranged Brahmos isn't exactly a small missile. Perhaps they can use inclined launchers instead of VLS.

They would have taken care of that.

I don't care much for exporting ships, helos etc. Keep supplying technologies that would make the Korean Armed Forces a bigger headache for China. I wouldn't mind if we handed over the SFDR or the LFRJ either.

The SFDR is actually Russian. And the Koreans have their own LFRJ.

They are making their own stuff, even an AAM.

New Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile for South Korea's KF-X Breaks Cover - Naval News

The first artist impression of a new supersonic anti-ship missile for South Korea's KF-X fighter has been released.

www.navalnews.com

Anyway, politically, the Koreans have no intention of bothering the Chinese.

 

[Chain Smoker]

The army will release a PSQR, so those with money will start development soon after. Whenever they get ready, a tender will be announced, and then the usual rigmarole.



Drones are capable of sea skimming.

India is also developing a drone called STAR.



They would have taken care of that.



The SFDR is actually Russian. And the Koreans have their own LFRJ.

They are making their own stuff, even an AAM.

New Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile for South Korea's KF-X Breaks Cover - Naval News

The first artist impression of a new supersonic anti-ship missile for South Korea's KF-X fighter has been released.

www.navalnews.com

Anyway, politically, the Koreans have no intention of bothering the Chinese.

No SFDR is not Russian.

 

[Gautam]

The army will release a PSQR, so those with money will start development soon after. Whenever they get ready, a tender will be announced, and then the usual rigmarole.

Drones are capable of sea skimming.

India is also developing a drone called STAR.

Ah yes, the LFRJ spin off. If they want they can test their SAMs against their own supersonic AShM like we did.

They would have taken care of that.

So they would have a Brahmos NG before us. Doubtful. But let's see.

The SFDR is actually Russian.

Design consultancy for the ramjet came from Russia. The nozzle less booster was from HEMRL I think. The design work was done by DRDL.

That's about it. No hardware came from Russia.

They are making their own stuff, even an AAM.

New Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile for South Korea's KF-X Breaks Cover - Naval News

The first artist impression of a new supersonic anti-ship missile for South Korea's KF-X fighter has been released.

www.navalnews.com

Very cool design. That's a AShM though.

Anyway, politically, the Koreans have no intention of bothering the Chinese.

Them and the Japanese. One of the reasons China could push their claims in SCS. They faced no resistance. The Americans under Obama did nothing too.

 

[Lolwa]

Yeah, quite successfully, and I even agree with them. The Biho is not suitable for 10 years down the line when AESA's going to be important. The Biho 2 otoh...

I'm guessing it's going to the private sector, in the FICV format. So the Biho will have to enter indirectly along with other foreign competitors.



Supersonic target drones are available.



They are way more self-sufficient than you would think. The only thing important I can think of is Astra Mk3, but the Americans will refuse its integration on the F-35, hence denied. The same for anything meant for their air force, if it cannot go on the F-35, it won't go to Korea. Indonesia is a better candidate for this. Our BMD must never be exported, never mind the fact that they need systems that are fully interoperable with the Americans, so even that's a no-go. They have no need to import ships, subs, fighters, helicopters, artillery and armoured vehicles, particularly the ones we can offer. Then they have their own TBMs.

Our LR-LACM is a bit unique, but that's about it.

They are more self sufficient than us. They already have an ATGM superior to the Javelin, MBT,SPH,Cruise Missile,Tactical ballistic missile,IFV's, AIP SSK with both cruise and ballistic missile capabilities. The most heavily armed destroyer presently in service. They are conventionally a much more independent and secure military than us. They are only behind Japan in self sufficiency. There aerospace industry is behind us. On every other conventional metric they are ahead of us by quite a margin.
It's actually us who need SoKo assistance not them. While we have none of the above in mass service or production. They have already exported half of the above stuff to Nato and other first world countries while we can barely win export orders in the third world.They are Israel of the East to not be exxagerating. Plus they are open to share tech with us and we should exploit. Atleast they won't scam and lowball us like the Russians do.

 

[randomradio]

I'm actually hoping that the private sector is at a significantly advanced stage.

Ah yes, the LFRJ spin off. If they want they can test their SAMs against their own supersonic AShM like we did.

So they would have a Brahmos NG before us. Doubtful. But let's see.

No, I mean they don't have to make a copy of the Brahmos-1 right from the beginning. There's also nothing saying it has a 300Kg warhead either, it could have a much smaller warhead, similar to Harpoon.

Design consultancy for the ramjet came from Russia. The nozzle less booster was from HEMRL I think. The design work was done by DRDL.

That's about it. No hardware came from Russia.

They are calling it a "joint venture" though. But, okay, it's likely that we started off with Russia, using Russian tech, and are now Indianising everything, including the motor.

@Chain Smoker

Them and the Japanese. One of the reasons China could push their claims in SCS. They faced no resistance. The Americans under Obama did nothing too.

Typical Americans. They do not think beyond their immediate goals. Like today they are regretting having denied technology, even from Russia, to India throughout the 90s.

 

[randomradio]

They are more self sufficient than us. They already have an ATGM superior to the Javelin, MBT,SPH,Cruise Missile,Tactical ballistic missile,IFV's, AIP SSK with both cruise and ballistic missile capabilities. The most heavily armed destroyer presently in service. They are conventionally a much more independent and secure military than us. They are only behind Japan in self sufficiency. There aerospace industry is behind us. On every other conventional metric they are ahead of us by quite a margin.
It's actually us who need SoKo assistance not them. While we have none of the above in mass service or production. They have already exported half of the above stuff to Nato and other first world countries while we can barely win export orders in the third world.They are Israel of the East to not be exxagerating. Plus they are open to share tech with us and we should exploit. Atleast they won't scam and lowball us like the Russians do.

Yeah, they are the ones who are ahead in technologies that can be exported. We are naturally ahead when it comes to strategic systems, but cannot be exported. Our focus has sadly been different.