British/Italian Tempest (GCAP) Fighter : News and Discussion
- Thread starter Shekhar Singh
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Sorry to interrupt the ragging session but doesn't the apg 81 have a longer range than the rbe 2. Even the apg79 has said to have a longer range??
Well, you believe any pro-Rafale anti-F-35 blog you read so.....
Of course it does, but you know what Rafale salespeople are like. Basically they would have you believe that the Rafale is a cross between an X-Wing Fighter and Firefox.
Somehow France has beaten the US, Russia and China etc. etc. Whereas the truth is that they couldn't even manage a retracting IFR probe.
I don't know about the Americans but the French are definitely ahead of the Russians and the Chinese when it comes to electronics. Americans are just way too ahead in electronics so I don't buy the whole rafale being superior to the f35. Though maybe it has superior software considering the Rafale gets regular software updates compared to the f35 which still gets its flaws fixed in updates..
According to Ministry of Defence sources, the RBE2 PESA has a modest range of about 100 km for typical fighter aircraft, which makes a range of about 80 km on a target with an equivalent surface area of 1 M^2.
This value can be confirmed thanks to an anecdote relating to a request from the UAE, which found that the range of the Rafale's AESA radar was not sufficient because it was less than that of their F-16 equipped with the AN-APG-80 AESA.
At that time the AESA RBE2 was a prototype radar with American T/Rs and the range increase that Thales was selling was 40-50% compared to the PESA.
Indeed 50% of improvement would have made a range of 120 km on a target with an equivalent surface area of 1 M^2 and the AN-APG-80 AESA had a range of 130 km on the same target. The UAE therefore requested a 10% improvement, i.e. 132 km on a 1m^2 target. To do so, Dassault planned to change the cooling circuit pump to increase the radar's peak power from 10 kw to 14.4 kw.
This modification was never carried out because when the CEAM made the tests of the serial radar with the final (European) T/Rs the range was increased by 100% compared to the RBE2 PESA which makes a range of 160 km on a target of 1m^2.
You can see on the graph that for a target of 1 m^2 the AN-APG-80 has a range of 130 km and that the AN-APG-81 has a range of 148 km, less than the 160 km of the RBE2 which is obtained by doubling the range of the PESA.
I don't see any data on the Typhoon radar there and how do you know whether 600mm is the diameter of the actual radar or its mount. This says only 500 modules.
Saab AESA trial offers Gripen C/D users new upgrade path
Saab has begun promoting an active electronically scanned array antenna for its PS-05/A fighter radar, offering an upgrade option for operators of its Gripen C/D, and other legacy types.www.flightglobal.com
600mm is the diameter of the antenna.
Although I can't read the article in the link, it's paywalled, it seems to be talking about Saab's AESA radar that's in the prototype stage, nothing is really known about it. The standard Gripen E is getting Italy's Raven radar. Plus Saab's radar uses GaN, so it can't really be compared.
RBE-2 has a shorter range, but the AESA version is RBE-2AA. Just getting semantics out of the way.
The RBE-2AA AESA has similar range as radars of the F-22 and F-35.
The Americans use older component hardware compared to the French, hence the French have taken a lead even though they use a smaller radar. The French use hardware that's a few years ahead. Using the same hardware as the French, the F-22's radar range can be doubled to 400Km, but they decided not to go that way, they are instead waiting for a much more advanced radar through the MLU program which is based on GaN.
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And what about the gripen's ES/05 is it superior or does it use the same euro trm modules the French posters are talking about??
old, old, old news. becoming now a BS news.
The only pic available of the Rafale AESA antenna is the prototyp one, more than 12 years ago, made with average quality US T/R modules.
The serial radar is another beast.
not really.
RBE2 AA is the name of the prototyp made with US modules. "AA" = Antenne Active in french = Activ Antenna.
The serially built radar is the RBE2 AESA.
They use the same T/R modules. The difference is in the back part of the radar, where the signal treatment is made. In this field Thales has the best skill and experience in Europe thanks to the RBE2 PESA experience.
Performance range of an AESA radar depend on the size of the antenna, the quality of the T/R modules and the ability to perform extraction of the heat from the T/R. The third factor allow you to increase the power and then to augment the range. With equal technology it is this last factor that makes the difference between several radar manufacturers.
Convenient excuse. All I know is that pictures of the RBE2-AA show 898 modules and pictures of the APG-81 show 1676 modules.
By far the biggest factor is the quality of the marketing.
My God, if you believe that you'll believe anything. I'm a deity as well, trollolollollol.
Antennae module or antennae array?
Based on the fact that smaller radars are more powerful, the Gripen radar is the most powerful in the world.
Tempest will have an AI version of Legion piloting it, so the radar range of enemy aircraft will be redundant, Legion will see them coming and turn them into geese and their pilots will be turned into bird seed with inevitable consequences.
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Carlo Kopp does not have classified clearance, so why quote his aspersions. You can make crazy, crazy assertions from articles, many of which contradict each other. I.e. Back when the F-35 was thought to be a 0.001m^2 RCS, it was said a Typhoon AESA could pick it up at 60km, giving the Typhoon AESA a theoretical range of 337km against 1m^2 RCS objects.
F-35: a game changer in modern warfare
www.koreatimes.co.kr
It's been nearly 10 years since the RBE-2AA was operational, so there should be a better grade of hardware available now.
An IAF Air Marshal said that the Gripen E will soon become the most advanced BVR fighter in the world once it's operational due to a more modern AESA radar and the Meteor combo. Saab had proposed an even more advanced Swedish radar instead of the Italian one going in the Swedish and Brazilian versions. Rafale will take the lead back with F4.2 obviously.
That's a weird designation.
'Cause it's old tech. The F-22's radar came out in the 2000s, and the F-35's followed suit with the same hardware. The Rafale's radar is 10 years ahead.
With American modules the Rafale's radar could carry less than 900 TRMs, while the European modules gave it 1000+, with some saying it's around 1100.
