Future Combat Vehicle Programs (FRCV and FICV)

zapper said:
DRDO worked on a light tank a while ago but IA never showed interest. Now that panic buying started and IA realized their T-90s & T-72s wouldn't work in the himalayas while chinese have been rolling around with their light tanks, IA wanted to follow suit


The project shouldn't be given to DRDO in the first place. L&T should be asked to do the mating of T-90's turret with K9's chassis. Remember how fast L&T delivered all K9s to IA
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Again , read what I wrote. There is no such interest from Army. And for panic buying, it's all just in media .

List 1 acquisition apart from 12 Spike launchers which happened as emergency purchase.

Emergency purchase only sees ammo and Spares replenishments.

It's all just in media.

As for mating T90 turret, we do not hold any rights over it. So not possible. Anyone saying otherwise is bluffing you.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
We need to invest in infrastructure and a proper replacement for or T72 fleet asap. Any 45-50 ton tank with a modern 120mm smoothbore with all NATO type ammo available to it , and decent protection and 1000hp engine will be fine.

But first Army needs to come clear on its requirements soon and how it intends to replace the ageing 2000+ T72 tank fleet. Only then any serious substantial process of development or acquisition can kickstart. That's why I keep saying we need detailed white paper on defence every 2-3 years.

For me personally, if we can get our hands on Challenger 2 with a smoothbore gun and a more powerful engine, that's a world beater. But note, it's just a fanboy comment on C2.
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Challenger 2 is outdated. The base version itself is 62 tonnes, so it won't meet our requirements anyway. The T-90MS is a better option instead.

The FRCV will meet our needs for T-72 replacement. No idea how that will work out though. The information is too sketchy, with the IA asking for foreign designs and also getting DRDO to make an indigenous tank design.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
We need to invest in infrastructure and a proper replacement for or T72 fleet asap. Any 45-50 ton tank with a modern 120mm smoothbore with all NATO type ammo available to it , and decent protection and 1000hp engine will be fine.

But first Army needs to come clear on its requirements soon and how it intends to replace the ageing 2000+ T72 tank fleet. Only then any serious substantial process of development or acquisition can kickstart. That's why I keep saying we need detailed white paper on defence every 2-3 years.

For me personally, if we can get our hands on Challenger 2 with a smoothbore gun and a more powerful engine, that's a world beater. But note, it's just a fanboy comment on C2.
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Challenger & arjun are of same class.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
For me personally, if we can get our hands on Challenger 2 with a smoothbore gun and a more powerful engine, that's a world beater. But note, it's just a fanboy comment on C2
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The Challenger 2's base weight is 62.5 tons with a combat ready weight of 75 tons with all the add-on armour modules which is in the same class as Arjun. IA's reluctance to induct more Arjun MBTs in primarily due to the weight and there's no way such heavy tanks could operate effectively in the himalayas
 
Ankit Kumar said:
We need to invest in infrastructure and a proper replacement for or T72 fleet asap. Any 45-50 ton tank with a modern 120mm smoothbore with all NATO type ammo available to it , and decent protection and 1000hp engine will be fine.

But first Army needs to come clear on its requirements soon and how it intends to replace the ageing 2000+ T72 tank fleet. Only then any serious substantial process of development or acquisition can kickstart. That's why I keep saying we need detailed white paper on defence every 2-3 years.

For me personally, if we can get our hands on Challenger 2 with a smoothbore gun and a more powerful engine, that's a world beater. But note, it's just a fanboy comment on C2.
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If we are going for the challenger why not just upgun the Arjun with l/55. We will get the same result anyway. Challenger is useless in every theater of India. Only type 10 and Centauri b2 are good candidates that for the bill otherwise we have the Russians...
 
Ankit Kumar said:
An armour piercing shell fired even from T72 at 1500+ m/s has actually higher chances of destroying its target than an ATGM at 200+ m/s.

And that's why everywhere in the world nations are still investing in tanks.
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True. But what is required for now is minimum defence or let's call it Jugaad for temporary purposes against Chinese Tanks.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1301513226299949056

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301515299586543617

I think this is a problem area not entirely unforseen by the MoD. If foreign OEM's are encouraged to set up shop in India , OTOH they will directly challenge the monopoly of the DPSU & OTOH they have the potential to stymie the growth of our indigenous pvt sector.

Thus MII will directly compete with Desiged, Developed & Manufactured in India for I believe if the goal is self reliance, we can't replace indigenous incompetence as represented by the DPSU's with foreign monopoly for the latter can effect such a scenario with the sheer money power they command. Our policies need further fine tuning.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
OTOH they have the potential to stymie the growth of our indigenous pvt sector.

Thus MII will directly compete with Desiged, Developed & Manufactured in India for I believe if the goal is self reliance, we can't replace indigenous incompetence as represented by the DPSU's with foreign monopoly for the latter can effect such a scenario with the sheer money power they command. Our policies need further fine tuning.
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True. But expect forces to play spoil sport and declare indigenous systems good for nothing by using out of world specifications which will make these foreign companies only contenders and we will be back to square one.
 
jetray said:
True. But expect forces to play spoil sport and declare indigenous systems good for nothing by using out of world specifications which will make these foreign companies only contenders and we will be back to square one.
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Why not our defense industry to be proactive. Look at the oshkosh JLTV specifications, its having 340hp engine for 4.5 ton vehicle, where tge kalyani m4 is having 450 ho for 16 tone vehicle. If such a vehicle is out tyer IA will aspire such platform and issue specifications accordingly. Our industry must know how to be competent to win defense orders.
_Anonymous_ said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1301513226299949056

https://twitter.com/x/status/1301515299586543617

I think this is a problem area not entirely unforseen by the MoD. If foreign OEM's are encouraged to set up shop in India , OTOH they will directly challenge the monopoly of the DPSU & OTOH they have the potential to stymie the growth of our indigenous pvt sector.

Thus MII will directly compete with Desiged, Developed & Manufactured in India for I believe if the goal is self reliance, we can't replace indigenous incompetence as represented by the DPSU's with foreign monopoly for the latter can effect such a scenario with the sheer money power they command. Our policies need further fine tuning.
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Good if IA get this platform, one of the best. But i seriously doubt germany will allow them.to export that rapid 35mm gun to india.
 
Hydra said:
Why not our defense industry to be proactive. Look at the oshkosh JLTV specifications, its having 340hp engine for 4.5 ton vehicle, where tge kalyani m4 is having 450 ho for 16 tone vehicle. If such a vehicle is out tyer IA will aspire such platform and issue specifications accordingly. Our industry must know how to be competent to win defense orders.

Good if IA get this platform, one of the best. But i seriously doubt germany will allow them.to export that rapid 35mm gun to india.
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M4 is the best vehicle in its class. It's not even indigenous it's made by a South African company Paramount Group. JLTV is a good vehicle but is nowhere close to the protection offered the mbombe. It's an extremely unique vehicle and should be bought by both are CAPF and military.
I really don't know why we keep aiming for fleet standardisation for such a large military when it always fails. We need a heavy ifv and a light ifv, logically lynx does have a place but the BMP does the job and are lighter. It would have been better if we had bought the armata our heavy ifv,tank and sp howitzer needs would have been solved. Now lynx is a good ifv but it doesn't have commonality with any other system.

Germans do have shady defence dealings. They are corrupt at the same time they do not sell their systems. H&k has banned itself to sell weapons to us for "human rights violations" at the same time they have sold there weapons to every other despotic hell holes. Mexico,Saudi Arabia, Pakistan the list goes on.
But coming to German defence companies they really want to enter the Indian market. The politics in Germany doesn't allow it because they are all bunch of leftist lunatics. So rheinmetall,KMW might actually happily sell us weapons. We just need to diplomatically woo the German politician basically buy their loyalty to then shut the f up and sell us weapons. Made in India. The Turks also made mpt 76 by copying the hk 416 short stroke system....
 
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Lolwa said:
M4 is the best vehicle in its class. It's not even indigenous it's made by a South African company Paramount Group. JLTV is a good vehicle but is nowhere close to the protection offered the mbombe. It's an extremely unique vehicle and should be bought by both are CAPF and military.
I really don't know why we keep aiming for fleet standardisation for such a large military when it always fails. We need a heavy ifv and a light ifv, logically lynx does have a place but the BMP does the job and are lighter. It would have been better if we had bought the armata our heavy ifv,tank and sp howitzer needs would have been solved. Now lynx is a good ifv but it doesn't have commonality with any other system.

Germans do have shady defence dealings. They are corrupt at the same time they do not sell their systems. H&k has banned itself to sell weapons to us for "human rights violations" at the same time they have sold there weapons to every other despotic hell holes. Mexico,Saudi Arabia, Pakistan the list goes on.
But coming to German defence companies they really want to enter the Indian market. The politics in Germany doesn't allow it because they are all bunch of leftist lunatics. So rheinmetall,KMW might actually happily sell us weapons. We just need to diplomatically woo the German politician basically buy their loyalty to then shut the f up and sell us weapons. Made in India. The Turks also made mpt 76 by copying the hk 416 short stroke system....
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JLTV is like jeep type vehicle, extremely useful in LAC region,it's compact powerfull slim enough to reach the toughest areas. M4 is agood troop carriers,but it cannot reach many parts of LAC. Again IA should go for M4 & initiate a procurement for JLTV type too.
Regarding Germans, totally understand your concern. That's why I have raised my suspicion whether they will sell it for us, 35mm rapid fire gun is much ahead of anything we have now. Glad news is that l&t is having an in-house program to develop such gun system.
 
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Hydra said:
JLTV is like jeep type vehicle, extremely useful in LAC region,it's compact powerfull slim enough to reach the toughest areas. M4 is agood troop carriers,but it cannot reach many parts of LAC. Again IA should go for M4 & initiate a procurement for JLTV type too.
Regarding Germans, totally understand your concern. That's why I have raised my suspicion whether they will sell it for us, 35mm rapid fire gun is much ahead of anything we have now. Glad news is that l&t is having an in-house program to develop such gun system.
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It's the same size and mbombe 4 offers much more protection and has more troop carrying capacity than the jltv. M4 can easily handle the terrain and has higher top speed than the jltv. For the jltv like project we just need to buy the mahendra aslv.
 
Lolwa said:
It's the same size and mbombe 4 offers much more protection and has more troop carrying capacity than the jltv. M4 can easily handle the terrain and has higher top speed than the jltv. For the jltv like project we just need to buy the mahendra aslv.
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The mbombe4 is the exact same form factor with more armour. We have better local options now for the rest mahindra aslv should be inducted and replace the rakshak and gypsy in forward deployed areas..
 
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Lolwa said:
The mbombe4 is the exact same form factor with more armour. We have better local options now for the rest mahindra aslv should be inducted and replace the rakshak and gypsy inforward deployed areas..
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Yeah, butbthe mobility height adjustment etc are not available I guess. But whatever,JLTV is not on offer,so IA needs to go for M4.
 
FICV is not a license production deal though.

And Lynx is more suitable for FRCV, but is likely to fall short. It's kinda stuck in between FICV and FRCV.
 
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