IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

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Buddy, throwing around a lot of operational terminology might confuse a lay-person, not me. But i guess its your modus operandi to confuse and divert attention when you've been caught with your pants down.

IAF was adamant over singularity of platform with A-330 being finalized for both Transport and Refueller roles under IAF

This is where i challenged you in the beginning, when you said IAF preferred A-330s, which is a civilian conversion, over actual transports for transportation of cargo, that too for the sake of fleet commonality?? What an absurd statement.

Then you started throwing around details about mobilization plans and how you got your info from a slide presentation without even knowing the actual context or requirement of the said presentation and following it up with factually incorrect statements.

I pointed out that the A-330s were considered because of their versatility and their ability to carry troops, thereby relieving the actual transport aircrafts to ferry supplies and armaments to the forward position, and now you're just repeating the same things that i stated before albeit in a confusing way, yet unwilling to reply to my actual question.

The A-330 were primarily shortlisted as a refueller. But its capability for conversion into troop carriers gave military planners another option, which wasn't available in the case of its competitor, the Il-78. It was after this realization that IAF strongly supported its induction and even recommended it to DRDO for their future AWACS program for fleet commonality.

Now to respond to another joke made by you:

C-17s were neither required at the time, nor were favored by the IAF. There is no requirement of C-17s for air transport of tanks if you want to get that angle in.

Ever heard about Very Heavy Lift Transport Aircraft (VHTAC) competition by the IAF? I guess not. Kindly read up on the said matter and come back.

The IAF shortlisted the C-17 Globemaster III as its new very heavy lift transport aircraft (VHTAC) and will use the aircraft to modernise its cargo capabilities.

Earlier this year New Delhi had submitted a letter of request to the US government for the possible acquisition of up to 10 Boeing C-17 strategic transports, with the move forming part of a programme to replace its air force's aged AN-32s and Ilyushin Il-76s.

An advanced version of the Il-76 was also considered to meet future requirements, but the defence ministry sources say the C-17 was the preferred choice.

IAF to get 10 C -17s from Boeing

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik is quoted by the India Strategic defence magazine as saying that the aircraft had been chosen after a thorough study because of its capability to take off and land on short runways with heavy loads, long range, and ease of operation.

IAF chooses Boeing’s latest C-17 for heavy-lift transport aircraft


The reason IAF started the VHTAC program was because the transport fleet was suffering from low availability and wanted an alternative from the west. This was the same time that IAF was conducting the competition for its MMRCA requirements, Refueller, Heavy lift helicopter and heavy attack helos, all of which were won by western systems.

Did you also know that the C-17 was first offered to us in 1998?? Ofcourse not. You should talk to that officer of your's.
 
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looks like the french are upping the stakes for a deeper Indo-French co-operation. is this mostly for the money? or is there some grouping of France against China?cos ultimately, the rafale will be used mostly against China and Pak.
Yes and short fin Barracuda to Australia is also against China. France is bordering the Indian Ocean with the island of Reunion and we do not appreciate the base that the Chinese have installed in Djibouti which is an old French possession.
 
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We helped you a lot durng Kargil battle.
We are helping you to revive Kaveri.
What do you want more as a proof of our love ? LOL

Russia reneged on the cryogenic engine deal with India under pressure from US

France reneged on the Mistral deal with Russia under pressure from the US

Israel dropped the from SAAB Gripen offer to India under pressure from US

Will France do a Mistral on India under pressure in the future?
 
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Yes and short fin Barracuda to Australia is also against China. France is bordering the Indian Ocean with the island of Reunion and we do not appreciate the base that the Chinese have installed in Djibouti which is an old French possession.

Everyone has a base in Djibouti. Even India is contemplating on having one. What is the issue? Is Djibouti no longer offering a base to France?

How a tiny African country became the world’s key military base

To counter China, India needs a military base in Djibouti

The small country with military might
 
What members may not realise is that for US, India was always the preferred choice. Due to initial posturing by Nehru, and Pakistan quickly offering to work with US, that could not fructify and what unfolded was decades of mistrust and wariness.

US would prefer a BJP Government in power as opposed to Congress for the simple reason of opening of markets and non hedging of diplomatic relationships with others.

While it may seem foolish to move ‘into US camp’, with the warming of relationship of Russia with China (for obvious reasons), and Chinese interests in CPEC running in contradiction to Indian interests, India is hardly left with any option other than to hedge against this tacit Russian support to China over Indian security concerns.

I will be blunt, Russia has need of India two to three decades from now, we had their need today. They have cast their lot openly, notwithstanding the rhetoric, India knows that we are on our own.

US has always been willing to step in. The mutuality of interests dictate that we use the opportunities offered.

The Russians know they can get their cake and eat it too.

We have the need for their support today, but they know they can get away with it because they know we will come to their aid two decades from now. Different time, different generation, different interests.

I am just happy that we are now in the position to be able to chart our own future.
 
How will they justify killing decades of hardwork of ADA and defence PSUs when HAL are almost ready to churn out LCA in the required nos. Homegrown project cannot be discarded so easily and govt will have to buy a few units of mk1a which will then negate the requirements of a foreign SEF at all. F-16 won't come before atleast 3 years after signing of the deal by then LCA line will be up and running. I cannot possibly understand why IAF would pick 175 million a pop f-sola and add on to its already burdened logistics problems..

Any discussion about LCA, SE MII and TE MII should be separate and independent. All three may be competing for funds, but they are not competing in requirements. If LCA wasn't an Indian aircraft, we wouldn't even be talking about it now. It was ADA's fault that they did not foresee their own ineptitude or the changing threat.
 
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The way things are going, I see more rafale orders as I suspect the rafale deal was for obtaining Kaveri consultancy. India has asked for infrastructure of more than 36 planes while order is for 36 planes only. It appears that India has put a condition that only after Kaveri engine is delivered, the next batch will be ordered. This will be as a payment for Kaveri help, not because Rafales are awesome.

The Kaveri is likely to fly by 2018 and hence Rafale orders may be coming next year, but definitely not January 2018

Kaveri consultancy was offered as offsets to the Rafale deal. The French offered it, and we took it. The govt never asked for Kaveri consultancy. Any foreign engine consultancy program was independent from Rafale and was actually following its own roadmap with multiple countries.
 
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He is talking about "conventional" equilibrium.

Does it matter if its conventional or nuclear equilibrium, either way, its working in their favour.

PA knows we are in no position for another war so they can screw with us on the loc and still keep the flame burning. They kill two jawans we kill two jawans and the cycle continues. They figured how to mess with a country 6 times bigger than theirs and get away with the bare minimum loss while keeping themselves in power the whole time.
 
Buddy, throwing around a lot of operational terminology might confuse a lay-person, not me. But i guess its your modus operandi to confuse and divert attention when you've been caught with your pants down.



This is where i challenged you in the beginning, when you said IAF preferred A-330s, which is a civilian conversion, over actual transports for transportation of cargo, that too for the sake of fleet commonality?? What an absurd statement.

Then you started throwing around details about mobilization plans and how you got your info from a slide presentation without even knowing the actual context or requirement of the said presentation and following it up with factually incorrect statements.

I pointed out that the A-330s were considered because of their versatility and their ability to carry troops, thereby relieving the actual transport aircrafts to ferry supplies and armaments to the forward position, and now you're just repeating the same things that i stated before albeit in a confusing way, yet unwilling to reply to my actual question.

The A-330 were primarily shortlisted as a refueller. But its capability for conversion into troop carriers gave military planners another option, which wasn't available in the case of its competitor, the Il-78. It was after this realization that IAF strongly supported its induction and even recommended it to DRDO for their future AWACS program for fleet commonality.

Now to respond to another joke made by you:



Ever heard about Very Heavy Lift Transport Aircraft (VHTAC) competition by the IAF? I guess not. Kindly read up on the said matter and come back.

The IAF shortlisted the C-17 Globemaster III as its new very heavy lift transport aircraft (VHTAC) and will use the aircraft to modernise its cargo capabilities.

Earlier this year New Delhi had submitted a letter of request to the US government for the possible acquisition of up to 10 Boeing C-17 strategic transports, with the move forming part of a programme to replace its air force's aged AN-32s and Ilyushin Il-76s.

An advanced version of the Il-76 was also considered to meet future requirements, but the defence ministry sources say the C-17 was the preferred choice.

IAF to get 10 C -17s from Boeing

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik is quoted by the India Strategic defence magazine as saying that the aircraft had been chosen after a thorough study because of its capability to take off and land on short runways with heavy loads, long range, and ease of operation.

IAF chooses Boeing’s latest C-17 for heavy-lift transport aircraft


The reason IAF started the VHTAC program was because the transport fleet was suffering from low availability and wanted an alternative from the west. This was the same time that IAF was conducting the competition for its MMRCA requirements, Refueller, Heavy lift helicopter and heavy attack helos, all of which were won by western systems.

Did you also know that the C-17 was first offered to us in 1998?? Ofcourse not. You should talk to that officer of your's.


Sir.

Did you know that M1 was offered to us back in 1980?
M4 in 1993?
Dragon M-47 ATGM in 1982?
Did you know the role played by US in preparing India for non-conventional operations?
Did you know the proposal of conversion of then College of Combat (and now Army War College) at Mhow into a UN Training School under PV Narasimha Rao?
Did you know the US proposal of joint forces to be stationed out of Philippines but due to the hesitancy on signing the agreements, it fell through?
Did you know the active assistance by Indian in Operation Enduring Freedom included Indian FAOs embedded along with forward elements?


So, what?

If C-17 was offered in 1998, so what? What does that prove?

Do you know why C-17 was NOT required? Because of the FUND AVAILABILITY.

The operational lingo is from a member who understands the implications. The thrust was on augmenting MANPOWER airlift capability as the equipment of strike corps is pre-positioned. Connect that with the Cold Start, smartie.

IL-76s were available for cargo lift, including under strategic lift.The problem was that requisitioning of the civil fleet, which has monitoring by civil agencies and nodal companies, undermined the operational 'surprise' intended to be achieved. Guess you miss out those aspects, don't you.


A pilot in civil has to be given advance notice of minimum 2 hours. Unlike forces. Let me know what security implications that has.

Do you know the deployment profile of IL-76 and C-17 right now?

What, in your highly informed opinion, is the procedure for mobilising civil assets in aid to armed forces? Since you seem to know quite well, do educate me.

@Hellfire And you told me it would be a 'learning experience'.
 
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Kaveri consultancy was offered as offsets to the Rafale deal. The French offered it, and we took it. The govt never asked for Kaveri consultancy. Any foreign engine consultancy program was independent from Rafale and was actually following its own roadmap with multiple countries.


Sir.

With him, it is the never ending argument of what came before, the egg or the hen. Of course with added twists of the dimension of crow, ostrich, the cow, the Archaeopteryx and it's potential to carry missiles etc etc. In short, any absurdity to deflect, derail and finally beat you with plain stupidity as you give up, allowing him to claim a moral victory!
 
Does it matter if its conventional or nuclear equilibrium, either way, its working in their favour.

PA knows we are in no position for another war so they can screw with us on the loc and still keep the flame burning. They kill two jawans we kill two jawans and the cycle continues. They figured how to mess with a country 6 times bigger than theirs and get away with the bare minimum loss while keeping themselves in power the whole time.

They don't have any advantage. All they have is propaganda. If we ever go to war, we will completely dominate in every conventional sphere.
 
They don't have any advantage. All they have is propaganda. If we ever go to war, we will completely dominate in every conventional sphere.

Yet India does not do anything inspite of having complete domination? If what you are claimimg is true then it is even pathetic.
 
Sir.

With him, it is the never ending argument of what came before, the egg or the hen. Of course with added twists of the dimension of crow, ostrich, the cow, the Archaeopteryx and it's potential to carry missiles etc etc. In short, any absurdity to deflect, derail and finally beat you with plain stupidity as you give up, allowing him to claim a moral victory!

Thanks for the warning. I am yet to butt heads with him. :)
 
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Two reasons:
1. Infighting.
2. Nukes.

If you are now claiming Nukes as the reason then your earlier claim of complete domination has no value.

The $60 billion dollar defence budget could be put to better use to enhance the lives of the people of the country rather than spending on useless arms.

What do you mean by Infighting?
 
If you are now claiming Nukes as the reason then your earlier claim of complete domination has no value.

You are not reading properly. Conventional = Regular weapons. Not NBC weapons. So tanks, aircraft, guns etc.

We can completely dominate their armed forces. But why should we lose Mumbai in the process?

The $60 billion dollar defence budget could be put to better use to enhance the lives of the people of the country rather than spending on useless arms.

The worst mistake any country makes. Our history is replete with such mistakes.

What do you mean by Infighting?

Pakistan's internal problems. There is no reason for India to fix their problems. They can fight each other as much as they want.
 
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