India-US inching closer to an F-16 deal?
India-US inching closer to an F-16 deal? - Indian Defence Research Wing
India-US inching closer to an F-16 deal? - Indian Defence Research Wing
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
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Can you tell me which technology in FGFA is so critical that sets it miles apart? The words like 5th generation, 4th generation etc tend to make an impression that 5th generation ones are better. But, can you give me the specific details as to which part is the critical one?
The F35 which USA touts as 5th generation plane and is set to replace all other planes including F16, F18, F15 etc is actually a plane with low speed and poor maneuverability. With GaN radars, it will lose any edge in stealth too. So, 5th generation may be overhyped.
Pilot limitations can be made up. In WW2 we have seen mass hiring of pilots. That is not an issue. The issue is about making fighter planes quickly in case of any signs of alarm and to replace damages during wartime.
No wars have been won by imported weapons. If you can import 1, then the importing nation will overcharge it to have 100% margin and hence get enough resources to produce 2 weapons for every one ordered by you. It will keep 1 with itself and give you the other. In this way, the producing nation will always have a lead
Answer a simple question
Will J 20 be Better than Rafale or Not
If yes we need some plane better than Rafale ; that will be PAK FA
WW2 planes were slow and without any avionics
Today Fighter pilots take and need MANY years to become experts
That is Because the Technology
and Tactics involved are very complex which have to be mastered
Rookies will die in no time Or else Rookies will need massive Technological advantage
Better in what parameter. I am not taking "range or payload" as an answer. These are adjustable by mass manufacturing. 2 Rafales can be made to get one J20, for example. Also, wartime replacement is more important. Here heavy planes will be a big negative. Planes are needed to be used and if it gives up at critical juncture, there is no point.
In all other aspects, the only advantage of J20 is in frontal stealth. I don't see any other reason to say Rafale is inferior to J20. Also, conidering that in wartime, two enemy planes are unlikely to be travelling in same altitude (for example, Rafale may be travelling at 25000 feet while J20 at 35000 feet either deliberately or due to earth's curvature), the frontal stealth may not really work. So, the Rafale may be as advanced as J20.
I agree with you on this. But, in India human resource is abundant and we can get pilots as we need more. The training of pilots is more easier and faster than making a plane. So, citing pilot deficiency is not meaningful. Plane deficiency is real threat as it takes years of research to get the know how to make planes
So far that is till Today ; IAF has had a Technological advantage over PLAAF ie China
We always knew that China had much greater numbers
Even today when they are inducting SU 35 ; we know that we are going to get
Rafales and Super sukhoi
But J 20 changes everything
And with China one thing is certain that they make Newer Versions quickly
like J 10 A / B/ C
So a Baseline J 20 might be equal to Rafale But The Next Version will be better
than Rafale
So you need a Fifth Gen plane
Now the only remaining question is ; Will it be PAK FA or F 35
First, tell me what is the advantage of J20 over Tejas Mk2 and F35 over Tejas Mk2 in terms of technology. Please exclude range and payload in the discussion.
Then we can proceed further.
Are you sure You are comparing J 20 with TEJAS MK 2
And how did F 35 come in the equation
So far there is No proposal to Buy F 35 for IAF
Yes, I want the actual technological advancement of J20 with Tejas Mk2. Since Mk2 is not available as of now, let us do it with Gripen E. I want to know what is 5th generation fighter. Please help me know
You mean to say J 20 would be just Similar to Gripen E
In that case where would you rate J 10 and J 11
Nope, We still got time. But our priority is sorting out LCA/SE program and Rafale MII. By then we will have a matured PAKFA Phase 2.
So was it a Wise thing to play this " Hard to please " Act ; by the IAF in case of PAK FA
That is what we have been doing for the several years
Russia in any case will make a Complete PAK FA before inducting it
and then keep improving it like they did with Su 27 which became Su 35
If we join the stage 2 ; What Technology are we going to get
Then at that time ; It would be Russia's Turn to show us the Mirror
It will be just a case of Take it or Leave it
Well India also have options open for itself. Since china already has its own 5th generation plane so who else is going to buy Russian plane in high numbers ?
Also there are other options available for us on highway if Russians show my way or highway attitude.
We have already joined by spending $295 million in the first phase!.
Even if we join the full development phase now it will take 6 years to get a production aircraft. Our primary concern is dwelling sqd numbers. So, it's better to focus on Rafale/LCA/SE now. When we join at a later stage say by 2020, Custom Development timelines would be smaller.
Its in Russian interest to have a development partner. They were never expecting our funds for the development but by making us a partner they get an assurance of a huge market. Which in turn reduces risk. According to reports, they will be sharing IP with us not the regular ToT as before. No western nation would offer IP access to us. So, our influence on the platforms market and exports will be significant.
I hope and wish all this is true
All the media reports have been very negative
The only thing that we have been hearing is that
IAF is not pleased and wants 43 Improvements
Su-57 is a russian plane designed for their doctrine and industrial ecosystem. IAF want to make it perfect for our use. These 43 are mostly customisations with parts which are not available with the Russians or were not part in the Phase 1 program.
PAKFA is a very capable aircraft even today with its unparallel sensor suit. Phase 2 will only make it unavoidable to the IAFs liking.
We cannot make these so called 43 improvements by our selves
We can only pay for it ; Here also we will keep bargaining for N number of years
If Russia is not interested ( because they have other projects too---
Russia Mulls Upgrading Su-57 to 6th Generation Fighter Jet )
or if it says that No Israeli ; French components
are allowed like we did in SU 30 ; so then what happens
How have we Benefitted by these endless arguements and discussions regarding PAK FA
Plz be specific about question. What is technologically superior in j20 over Gripen E or Tejas mk2. Thanks.
Of course, we need Sukhoi for customising. Don't take every other media report seriously.
When they are ready to share IP why would they have a problem to allow changes like in MKI?
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