IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

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The cost of Rafale when they opened the bid was $85M, not counting escalation. So that's the price Dassault bid with back in 2007. That's 62M euros at the then exchange rate.

If we apply an escalation of 3.5%, the Rafale would have cost a maximum of $98M or 71M euros when the bids were opened in 2011. And this is for an aircraft configuration specific to MMRCA.

The euro was really strong at this time.

If you continue with the same escalation all the way to 2016, we get 84.5M euros or $95M.

And the IAF specific model with all the stuff we need came to 95M euros or $105M.

Lesson: It's not a good idea to delay a tender.
 
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Defence deals are not mere trade but a relation. There can be no trade in such critical needs with countriespeople whom you don't fully trust. Typhoon is unreliable as UK is involved. UK is not a friendly country. By that means, why not buy Chinese planes, chinese tanks etc? Chinese are much cheaper than Western ones.

The investment in DRAL is just 100million dollars by Dassault (50% share). It will not be a big time manufacturer but just a unit for manufacturing maintenance parts and help in regular maintenance.
vstol Jockey said:
The biggest frauds in the history of India are being perpetuated by Modi Govt. Rafale deal is one such example. We all know what French Govt paid for each Rafale and for an export customer the price was lower than Euro57m. India specific changes have been paid for separately. Now how do we explian a price revision of over Euro40million to fly away cost?

The agreement between DA and Reliance to produce Rafale in India predates the actual deal. Why?

Why did BJP not consider Typhoon for G2G deal when MMRCA deal had been cancelled and replaced by G2G deal? Did it have anything to do with DA-Reliance deal?

Why and how the cost price as paid for by French Government inflated by Euro 40million for each aircraft? The cost of India specific changes being in addition to this price.

Does this inflated price help DRAL to make exceptional profits as the price of India produced Rafale will get benchmarked to French assembled Rafale?

Is it an exercise to show that India produced Rafale will be cheaper by discounting this price increase by 20%?

is it not a fact that tracing money within India is a big problem than bringing money from abroad which has been parked as bribes? Does BJP plan to have the bribes in this deal thru DRAL in India?

Who was supposed to be the beneficiary of this price inflation? Did the agreement between DA and Reliance had anything to do with it?

Bofor’s was about USD64million and government with 402 seats in lok sabha lost in 1989. Here we are talking of Euro 1.44billion. Can there be a bigger scam than this?

This deal is sufficient to bring down this government in 2019 and no BJP government will ever be formed for next 20 yrs

Modi has a very potent card up his sleeve and he has a time limit for it. He has to play it by 15 Sep 2018 or he losses it completely.

If He does not play his most potent card by this date, he will never be able to do it before 2019 elections and I will than play my card.
Rafale deal is the biggest fraud which has been played on our people.
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Kshithij Sharma said:
The investment in DRAL is just 100million dollars by Dassault (50% share). It will not be a big time manufacturer but just a unit for manufacturing maintenance parts and help in regular maintenance.
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A plant is not a very big investment for example Airbus invested only $600 million to build a plant in Mobile, Alabama
Atlanta - European planemaker Airubs is poised to invest $600 million in a new U.S. production facility in Mobile, Alabama, for its A320 passenger jet that is expected to produce four planes a month by 2017, according to two people familiar with the company's plans.
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Airbus to invest $600 mln in new plant | IOL Business Report
 
vstol Jockey said:
Modi has a very potent card up his sleeve and he has a time limit for it. He has to play it by 15 Sep 2018 or he losses it completely.

If He does not play his most potent card by this date, he will never be able to do it before 2019 elections and I will than play my card.
Rafale deal is the biggest fraud which has been played on our people.
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@vstol Jockey and that potent card is the little game that can be played beyond some boundaries?
 
randomradio said:
L2. According to our procurement rules, we can't go back to the L2. Plus, can't drop nukes.
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Once the MMRCA itself was cancelled than where is the question of L1 or L2. that became irrelevent.

randomradio said:
No GTG deals have ever faced corruption issues in the history of India's procurement.
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GTG deal does not entail corruption but the the bribes will be paid in Indian produced aircraft.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
What about the offsets , consultancy to GTRE , usage of megajoule , etc ? Does that come free or is there a price attached ? What about the N deal we signed with Russia for supply of N reactors to Koodankulam ? Isn't there a secret protocol there for fees in lieu of design / consultancy for the boomers we have manufactured?
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As I told you, the deal with France does not have any bribes and the extra money paid is for the additional things that we are getting from France. The Euro 1.44b is for those additions and offsets. The scam is in India produced aircraft.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Once the MMRCA itself was cancelled than where is the question of L1 or L2. that became irrelevent.
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MMRCA was canceled after GTG negotiations began. There was no room for L2 to come in. And we already know about the nuclear requirement. Even if Typhoon was cheaper, it was pointless. But we know for sure that it is impossible for Typhoon to be cheaper, the aircraft is under-developed and the procurement cost is ridiculously high.

Qatar bought 24 Rafales for 7B and 24 Typhoons for 8B. And the Rafales are already so far ahead spec-wise. You take the weapons package out, the difference will be even wider in favour of Rafale.

GTG deal does not entail corruption but the the bribes will be paid in Indian produced aircraft.
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Even the Indian produced aircraft will go through GTG. According to the new DPP, all major contracts will be GTG, even the tenders. This includes SE, TE, P-75I, MRCBF etc.

Now the only room for corruption will be within small global tenders and small and large domestic tenders which can't be turned into GTG. If Parrikar was still in charge, he would have introduced checks and balances there also. I don't know if NS is capable of doing the same in case Parrikar has not already done the same. Even in these cases, Parrikar has allowed middlemen who are registered with the MoD. Their financials will also be tracked.
 
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Bon Plan said:
? the price for french air force is in the 90 €million area.
explain your 57?
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b) Coût du programme
Avant prise en compte du projet de LPM, le coût total du programme pour l'Etat était de 45,9 Mds €2013. Le coût unitaire (hors coût de développement) de 74 M€2013 pour le Rafale B (pour 110 avions) de 68,8 M€2013 pour le Rafale C (pour 118 avions) et de 79 M€2011pour le Rafale M (pour 58 avions).

This price includes VAT @ 19.7% and 7% profit for DA. So the cost price is what I posted.
 
vstol Jockey said:
b) Coût du programme
Avant prise en compte du projet de LPM, le coût total du programme pour l'Etat était de 45,9 Mds €2013. Le coût unitaire (hors coût de développement) de 74 M€2013 pour le Rafale B (pour 110 avions) de 68,8 M€2013 pour le Rafale C (pour 118 avions) et de 79 M€2011pour le Rafale M (pour 58 avions).

This price includes VAT @ 19.7% and 7% profit for DA. So the cost price is what I posted.
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It is not a price : coût unitaire = cost per unit, so it doesn't comprise 7/93 for the Dassault profit.
And you can compute the total cost without development of the 286 aircraft it is 20.8404 Billions so the development cost 45.9 - 20.9 = 25 billion . Dassault Safran and Thales have paid 25% of the development That's 6.25 Billions, they need to increase the export price of Rafale to amortize this investment.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
It is not a price : coût unitaire = cost per unit, so it doesn't comprise 7/93 for the Dassault profit.
And you can compute the total cost without development of the 286 aircraft it is 20.8404 Billions so the development cost 45.9 - 20.9 = 25 billion . Dassault Safran and Thales have paid 25% of the development That's 6.25 Billions, they need to increase the export price of Rafale to amortize this investment.
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Dear sir, You are wrong. The program cost includes all costa including subsidy, if any given by the state.
Please do give me the level of education and business expertise for what I actually do. I do know how to calculate the actual cost. You might find my company become the a launch customer of A-350-1000 based freighter.
 
vstol Jockey said:
b) Coût du programme
Avant prise en compte du projet de LPM, le coût total du programme pour l'Etat était de 45,9 Mds €2013. Le coût unitaire (hors coût de développement) de 74 M€2013 pour le Rafale B (pour 110 avions) de 68,8 M€2013 pour le Rafale C (pour 118 avions) et de 79 M€2011pour le Rafale M (pour 58 avions).

This price includes VAT @ 19.7% and 7% profit for DA. So the cost price is what I posted.
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Le coût unitaire (hors coût de développement)
ie : without developpment costs.

25% of it paid by Rafale international GIE. They are private company so they want their money back.
Same attempt for the 75% paid by the french taxpayer...
 
India to again scout for global players for jets

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Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, February 21

Its fleet of fighter jets dwindling, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is set to float a fresh global tender inviting military aviation companies to make fighter jets in India.The move comes as the Air Force is now down to 31 squadrons against the need of 42, as mandated by the Cabinet Committee on Security. Each squadron has 16-18 planes. The request for information (RFI), the first step in the tendering process, is being finalised and will be sent out to global players, sources said.

Companies that participated in the now scrapped Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) project will be invited. The MMRCA project for 126 jets did not fructify and the government, in April 2015, announced the move to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets from French major Dassault. The MoD and the IAF will keep its options open and not restrict itself to say a “single engine” fighter jet, sources have told The Tribune.

The option will be to get a “fighter jet” and it will not specify the number of engines as that then restricts the options.These will be under ‘make in India’ and to get global manufactures to have a production line in India, the project needs adequate numbers with possibility of future expansions. To speed up matters, the MoD will be looking at new additions made by global players since the MMRCA trials were carried out in 2011. The planes tested then were Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN, US Boeing’s F/A-18IN, Eurofighter Typhoon, French Dassault’s Rafale, Swedish Saab’s Gripen and Russian MiG-35.

In past two years, the IAF and the MoD were in talks for a “single engine” fighter jet with two global manufactures. However, this has been superseded by the thought process to just focus on getting additional jets without getting into “single engine” or “twin engine” variants. The existing production of 123 Tejas fighter jets being made by public sector giant Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is just taking off and it will take more than a decade for the entire lot to be manufactured. The IAF has the mandate to have 272 Sukhoi 30 MKI in its fleet. The MiG 21s are on their last legs and have to be phased out.

India to again scout for global players for jets
 
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