IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

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Don't try to squirm away when cornered.

I asked you for the proof of a SE tender before MRCA/MMRCA which is what you claimed, saying IAF had a need for another SE jet over and above the LCA.




You're just going round and round in circles. if F-16 and Gripen didn't have a chance in the last MMRCA, what chance do they have now? Then how will IAFs SE requirement be met?

Stop making up things to suit your narrative.



So? How does that make Gripen the best MMRCA?



Or you could just quote your source and make it easier for the both of us. Don't know why you're reluctant to back up your claims with hard facts and 'named' sources.



Doesn't the whole competition revolve around that final 'acceptance' from the govt? Then i don't know how you can say the govt's say is irrelevant.



Instead of quoting whole articles, quote his actual words, where he says IAF sent RFI for SE jets before MRCA/MMRCA.




Wow, you really are good at pulling numbers from out of that place where sunlight doesn't reach.



Im talking about the combined SE+TE tender and you know it. Don't act all dumb.



Again, I'm asking you. Since the GoI has decided to combine both SE and TE requirements, how will IAF meet the other requirement as only one of them will be selected (either an SE or a TE)?



Does the below look like it's from the ACM?


Quote his exact words please!





What are you trying to prove? That there was plans to induct both SE and TE jets under SP? I already agreed to that. But i'm asking you to prove your claim that SE requirements over and above LCA existed before MMRCA.
SP model came in 2016.

BTW, something that will bust your claims, found it randomly in today's ToI article.

It was the then defence minister Manohar Parrikar who had advised IAF to go in for the single-engine production line because he said the country could afford only 36 of the twin-engine Rafales for meeting its “critical operational necessity” immediately.

Govt scraps single-engine fighters plan, asks IAF to go for wider competition - Times of India

Dude, I already provided an article written by an IAF official talking about the 2001 MRCA.

I would recommend actually doing your own research from here on.
 
Dude, I already provided an article written by an IAF official talking about the 2001 MRCA.

I would recommend actually doing your own research from here on.

Dude, i can provide multitudes of articles to counter your claim.

Yet you're unable to quote even one single line to substantiate your claims. I dont care about articles, all i care about is the exact words that were spoken by the source.

BTW, this is the very first line in that article you asked me to look at.
"If the Indian Air Force (IAF) had stuck to its original 2001 RFI plan for the MMRCA programme, it would have gone in for a lighter multi-role aircraft – in all probability the Mirage 2000-5.."

Note: "light multi-role aircraft" and not Single-engined aircraft.

Even when the govt withdrew the older tender for single engine jets


Anything else??
 
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Dude, I already provided an article written by an IAF official talking about the 2001 MRCA.

I would recommend actually doing your own research from here on.

From the same article you quoted:
"Mr Parrikar has also suggested that any augmentation in the number of Rafales to be acquired would also follow the G2G route. Second, while he has not categorically ruled out the indigenous production of Rafale fighters in the country (preferably, in a PPP-Public Private Partnership scenario), his recent statements contain veiled suggestions to follow a different path to build up IAF’s combat force levels."

Read - the SE fighter competition under SP model, again proving your claim that IAF instigated the SE split from MMRCA, as false.

SE has nothing to do with the govt, it was all IAF there. It's the govt that killed the IAF's plan to have SE and TE tender and merged it into one.

You should read your own sources before throwing them on others faces. :LOL:
 
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Dude, i can provide multitudes of articles to counter your claim.

Yet you're unable to quote even one single line to substantiate your claims. I dont care about articles, all i care about is the exact words that were spoken by the source.

BTW, this is the very first line in that article you asked me to look at.
"If the Indian Air Force (IAF) had stuck to its original 2001 RFI plan for the MMRCA programme, it would have gone in for a lighter multi-role aircraft – in all probability the Mirage 2000-5.."

Note: "light multi-role aircraft" and not Single-engined aircraft.




Anything else??

:LOL:

So light multirole aircraft being M-2000, F-16 and Gripen, the RFI entrants are not single engine aircraft?
 
From the same article you quoted:
"Mr Parrikar has also suggested that any augmentation in the number of Rafales to be acquired would also follow the G2G route. Second, while he has not categorically ruled out the indigenous production of Rafale fighters in the country (preferably, in a PPP-Public Private Partnership scenario), his recent statements contain veiled suggestions to follow a different path to build up IAF’s combat force levels."

Read - the SE fighter competition under SP model, again proving your claim that IAF instigated the SE split from MMRCA, as false.



You should read your own sources before throwing them on others faces. :LOL:

Parrikar didn't decide anything for the IAF.

I told this to Hellfire also a long time ago. The govt can only make a request and choose the order, nothing else.

IAF Chief Dhanoa himself said the IAF prioritized SEF. Look back on the previous links I posted related to Dhanoa.
 
Well I am well aware of what exactly is happening. Cmde Mao is likely to take premature retirement by july this year. trying to get him onboard for MSA. Have already discussed it with him.

Who's Cmde Mao?

Anyway, so will you be going back to a SE design for MSA to target the IAF's SE requirement?
 
Where is the crying emoji when we need one ! .... The question is why go to this process again !?... this is getting ridiculously funny!

It's better than the earlier game plan of delaying Rafale's MII procurement all the way to 2030+. By then it would have become irrelevant.

With the current plan, we can at least start seeing MII Rafales by 2026 or 2027.
 
Well I am well aware of what exactly is happening. Cmde Mao is likely to take premature retirement by july this year. trying to get him onboard for MSA. Have already discussed it with him.
Cmdr Mao coming on-board would be a massive leap for you plans and will add a lot of credibility. Best wishes Sir (y)
 
:LOL:

So light multirole aircraft being M-2000, F-16 and Gripen, the RFI entrants are not single engine aircraft?

Good thing you conveniently decided to omit MiG-29 (twin engined). Or it could have been confusing. :LOL::LOL:

Please stop your pathetic attempts at manufacturing fake arguments to support your theories.

If you're debating on facts, stop changing the goalposts every now and then.

Parrikar didn't decide anything for the IAF.

I told this to Hellfire also a long time ago. The govt can only make a request and choose the order, nothing else.

IAF Chief Dhanoa himself said the IAF prioritized SEF. Look back on the previous links I posted related to Dhanoa.

Yes, the Minister of Defense do not have any authority over what IAF buys.

Are you honestly saying these words?

The fact that MoD asked the IAF to select an SE jet instead of additional Rafales have no meaning to you?
 
Good thing you conveniently decided to omit MiG-29. Or it could have been confusing.

Please stop your pathetic attempts at manufacturing fake arguments to support your theories.

If you're debating on facts, stop changing the goalposts every now and then.

Dude, I'm not changing goalposts anywhere. For the current SE MII also, the IAF sent out a letter to the Russians. It's simply a process.

The Mig-29 had no chance in the MRCA RFP because it was overweight. The limit is 20T. The Mig-29A is 19T, the Mig-29M is 24.5T. The contest was between three single engine jets, and it was in fact rigged in favour of the M-2000 anyway.

How do you explain IAF sending out letters to Boeing and Mig for SE MII?

Nobody is shifting goalposts, your lack of process knowledge is creating problems for you. Google what RFI means.

Yes, the Minister of Defense do not have any authority over what IAF buys.

Are you honestly saying these words?

The fact that MoD asked the IAF to select an SE jet instead of additional Rafales have no meaning to you?

You don't know how the process works.

IAF created the requirement for SE and TE MII. It has nothing to do with the govt. Read DPP in detail.
 
Dude, I'm not changing goalposts anywhere.

Yes you are. First you said single engined tender, then when i asked you again, you changed it to MRCA RFI, when i pointed out that wasn't the case you went to light fighter!

My entire point of contention was your argument that IAF issued a tender for a SE jet other than LCA, which never happened.

The MRCA RFI was for a light-weight multi-role aircraft (not SE).

The Mig-29 had no chance in the MRCA RFP because it was overweight. The limit is 20T.

There was no MRCA RFP. The competition changed to MMRCA during the RFP stage in 2007 and MiG had no problems replying to it with their Mig-35.

Go through the whole MRCA/MMRCA timeline once more.

The contest was between three single engine jets, and it was in fact rigged in favour of the M-2000 anyway.

Rigged or not, that's a separate fact. Again, IAF didn't go for the M'2000 because it was a SE jet.

How do you explain IAF sending out letters to Boeing and Mig for SE MII?

Sending RFI is one thing. Getting actual replies is another. An aircraft becomes part of the competition only when an offer has been received in response.

The Russians replied to both the MRCA RFI and MMRCA RFP.

IAF created the requirement for SE and TE MII. It has nothing to do with the govt.

On one hand you have Parikkar saying that he himself asked the IAF to consider SE jet instead of Rafales for the time being.

On the other hand, there's you saying you dont believe any other report except that of Dhanoa who says IAF is considering SE jets (where he never mentions that the whole SE thing was IAFs idea)

I dont know what else to say to convince you.
 
With the F-35 which offers better data fusion and networking with other F-35s in the NATO fleet would be better in terms of interoperability. Also, the support system will be less expensive and much more integrated due to the scope of F-35 program.
Big Lockheed Martin propaganda. Their Data fusion does not work. Rafale F4 connectivity will be better than F-35 one and will work first.
 
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