The thrust parameters for all the above engines have been met, minus the Type 30. They are all in serial production in some form or the other.
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
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The thrust parameters for all the above engines have been met, minus the Type 30. They are all in serial production in some form or the other.
No one said that the different thrust class M88 were of the same dimensions or with the same core. But they shared the same technology (metalurgy, FADEC, 21 modules...)
Then Rafale will have to be redesigned to make those M88 fit. That will require new fuselage and start a new process altogether.
The difference of dimensions will be significant - about 20% in diameter and 10% in length in addition to other changes like increase air intake.
The difference between F404 and F414 is just in air intake. Both have same dimensions. So, the upgrade was smooth. In case of M88, the scope for improvement in thrust with same size is minimal as the existing design is very efficient. More thrust will be difficult. So, the redesign of fuselage is not avoidable.
This is why I am saying that M88 may never see light of the day. Too difficult path of upgrading a plane - rafale which works perfectly well simply to boast of a powerful engine
The difference of dimensions will be significant - about 20% in diameter and 10% in length in addition to other changes like increase air intake.
The difference between F404 and F414 is just in air intake. Both have same dimensions. So, the upgrade was smooth. In case of M88, the scope for improvement in thrust with same size is minimal as the existing design is very efficient. More thrust will be difficult. So, the redesign of fuselage is not avoidable.
This is why I am saying that M88 may never see light of the day. Too difficult path of upgrading a plane - rafale which works perfectly well simply to boast of a powerful engine
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You need to know the difference between Hot core and Afterburning thrust. M88 core is cleared for 9 ton dry thrust. Afterburning does not have any effect on hot core which comprises HP and LP turbine. In Afterburner we burn the hot air which is bypassed from the core. The TET is what matters.
The actual rafale has already shown a 9T ability. France air force choose not to take this but instead a less possession cost version of the 7.5 tons.
A 11 Tons M88 would have to be bigger than actual one, but with same technology.
Note that the air intakes of the actual Rafale can accomodate a 8.3 tons of thrust (7.5 +10% margin from design).
I know, I know.
But it's not possible to plug and play the hot core of M88 on a Kaveri. Because in front of the hot core there is a cold part.... and one from M88 and the other from Kaveri are not compatibles.
The hot core is actually the HP and LP turbines which are behind the combustion chambers and where the burnt out gases are converted in to propulsive force by HP turbine and LP turbine. Mostly the HP turbine gives the forward thrust while the LP turbine is used to run the compressors and other services like gear box. M88 hot core needs nearly zero or minimum changes to be adopted for Kaveri but the changes required in the front part including fan and HP compressors are going to be massive to ensure steady and stable flow thru the hot core of the engine.
My point is that since the choice for the engine has already been made, it is now meaningless to develop another higher thrust engine, similar to F414 in size, as the size fuselage and air intakes will have to be increased in size
Hence it is impossible to just plug and play with Kaveri without designing a new engine/core by France. That is heavily time consuming to say the least.
The engine is made with perfect harmony with all the parts. It is impossible to just plug the hot core section into Kaveri without modification. The harmony will be lost and redesign will have to be done to some extent
MAybe it is time, as would say a friend of mine rom Safran, to remember that Kaveri is an old project started during 90ies for Safran, and they have a quite extensive insight of it already. Second, the idea is first to make a usable engine, than establish specs of next gen engine "kaveri 2" (i named it, not official) and start codesigning it?
Kartik on BRF confirming from a French source of his that DRDO and Safran are very close to signing a deal on Kaveri-m88 hybrid.
Let's wait and watch what happens during Macron visit.Speculations on forums are getting interesting.
Let's wait and watch what happens during Macron visit.Speculations on forums are getting interesting.
anyone get the feeling this IAF chronicles thread is turning into a "maha bhaarah katha" with so much of story and drama going on?
Be happy we didn't introduce our flying saucers and Starwars laser guns into the forum yet.Hindu extremists putting their mythology into everything....
actually, just one thread for all the Very important discussions would be good. Making different threads removes the seriousness in the topic. you can change the thread name though
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