IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

[vstol Jockey]

Source Based

1. The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media
2. its changed to all system , sub system, minor and major parts direct production in an Indian ecosystem along with substantial passage of industrial know how and metallurgical process to Indian entities.
3. A part of the process will also get shared with Indian research entities.
4. All that will flow into basically the Indian Aircraft program with program development of LCA MKxx series.
5. The engine is freezed at Kaveri Family which will now have adequate power to take upto 30 ton MTOW and in future will be apply to take more MTOW ( )
6. We are slowly reaching a position where if there is no major redesign needed a lot of Indian ecosystem produced engines in our fleet may see usage over next decade in both AF and Navy.
7. Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed.
8. For F-35 a small update - we still have not acquired a no strings attached status.
9. It's the same for F18 (no Nuclear strike role for US crafts).
10. Second USA gov and LM again said access to F35 under priority status but the defined status includes a "global remote monitoring system" for "ensuring the usage is as defined by US laws and Senate directives" (wonder why Indian journos still want F35 like this )
11. One more thing that is defined clearly is number of parts, systems and planes to order in order to access more advanced technology. Meaning order legacy to access advanced.. (@halloweene - IN MRCBF limitation point no 9, 10 and 11))
12. This is why French side access is unprecendented and their whole ecosystem creation will make US cry more. So Anti Rafale and anti French issues will be created as I have said time and again.

@vstol Jockey
Mig35 with Safranised Kaveri is explored along with few more things..


.

I told you so sometime back. Mig bureau is making a deck version of it specifically for IN and have also agreed to give TVC for Kaveri as and when it is available. Mig-35 with TVC will be a game changer. Also please note that russians too have mastered active cancellation.
Just remember what I am telling you now. Most likely IN will get Mig-35 plus HAL as MII partner for more of them for IN with Kaveri engine and IAF will get more Rafale as MII.

 

[Desi Lover]

I am now putting the team together. I have reached the stage where I need a proper team in place to take it forward.

All the best. Following you since last few years.

Where would you get the money, man power, labs etc for this sort of project?

 

[vstol Jockey]

All the best. Following you since last few years.

Where would you get the money, man power, labs etc for this sort of project?

some options have been suggested by the likely team leader of MSA project. we are examining them.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Source Based

1. The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media
2. its changed to all system , sub system, minor and major parts direct production in an Indian ecosystem along with substantial passage of industrial know how and metallurgical process to Indian entities.
3. A part of the process will also get shared with Indian research entities.
4. All that will flow into basically the Indian Aircraft program with program development of LCA MKxx series.
5. The engine is freezed at Kaveri Family which will now have adequate power to take upto 30 ton MTOW in TE config and in future will be apply to take more MTOW ( )
6. We are slowly reaching a position where if there is no major redesign needed a lot of Indian ecosystem produced engines in our fleet may see usage over next decade in both AF and Navy.
7. Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed.
8. For F-35 a small update - we still have not acquired a no strings attached status.
9. It's the same for F18 (no Nuclear strike role for US crafts).
10. Second USA gov and LM again said access to F35 under priority status but the defined status includes a "global remote monitoring system" for "ensuring the usage is as defined by US laws and Senate directives" (wonder why Indian journos still want F35 like this )
11. One more thing that is defined clearly is number of parts, systems and planes to order in order to access more advanced technology. Meaning order legacy to access advanced.. (@halloweene - IN MRCBF limitation point no 9, 10 and 11))
12. This is why French side access is unprecendented and their whole ecosystem creation will make US cry more. So Anti Rafale and anti French issues will be created as I have said time and again.

@vstol Jockey
Mig35 with Safranised Kaveri is explored along with few more things..


.

Please get some news about FGFA / PAK FA

This eerie silence is quiet surprising

 

[nair]

The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media

Scope for another decade delay......

its changed to all system , sub system, minor and major parts direct production in an Indian ecosystem along with substantial passage of industrial know how and metallurgical process to Indian entities

If we go russia's way, they will be back in our pocket..... With safron on board, it can be french too.... Who are more reliable on long run...

All that will flow into basically the Indian Aircraft program with program development of LCA MKxx series.

That is a good news and a bad news for those experts who wrote articles after articles on behest of LM

The engine is freezed at Kaveri Family which will now have adequate power to take upto 30 ton MTOW in TE config and in future will be apply to take more MTOW ( )

Safran seems to have helped team kaveri in a big way.... If this is true, then the next stop is reliability.......

We are slowly reaching a position where if there is no major redesign needed a lot of Indian ecosystem produced engines in our fleet may see usage over next decade in both AF and Navy.

Again if the kaveri has reached the stage where it can be used extensively with reliability....... That would be a great news..... But reliability is gonna be a concern especially on SE config...

• Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed

Interesting thing would be to know the follow up orders......

For F-35 a small update - we still have not acquired a no strings attached status

Uncle sam.... Even if he sells you a "Hair pin" it will be with string attached....... What would you expect on F 35??? The intersting thing would be how many strings attached, and how much you will have to bend to get them....

It's the same for F18 (no Nuclear strike role for US crafts)

F16 of Pakistanis is a great example......

Second USA gov and LM again said access to F35 under priority status but the defined status includes a "global remote monitoring system" for "ensuring the usage is as defined by US laws and Senate directives" (wonder why Indian journos still want F35 like this )

Was it indian jornos, or was it the so called "Strategic or Military Experts"????

 

[nair]

Please get some news about FGFA / PAK FA

This eerie silence is quiet surprising

More or less dropped/Scrapped

 

[Desi Lover]

Source Based

1. The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media
2. its changed to all system , sub system, minor and major parts direct production in an Indian ecosystem along with substantial passage of industrial know how and metallurgical process to Indian entities.
3. A part of the process will also get shared with Indian research entities.
4. Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed.

@vstol Jockey
Mig35 with Safranised Kaveri is explored along with few more things..


.

If Rafael deal is done and dusted, why has SE concept not been scrapped ?

Also, if Rafael deal is done, are we getting the technologies? Besides, India cancelled MMRCA 1 as it did not have enough money to buy 126 rafaels. How will it buy the same/more now?

 

[Aashish]

If Rafael deal is done and dusted, why has SE tender not been scrapped ?

Also, if Rafael deal is done, are we getting the technologies?

SE was a separate requirement for Fw bases

We getting enough that almost all new planes OEMs major has to bring to table far more.
About what Team Rafale and French government is sharing, most is written here..

What I can say is beyond Rafale, Engine it's far more strategic including something in a new ALCM, our network centric warfare infrastructure access allowing us operate next gen drones, a new stealth coating which needs less application and far lower maintainence, aerodynamic structural and metallurgical access to certain fabrication aspects..some more on radar, stealth and situation awareness.. one particular field of deep research is a complete electronic warfare system with anti hacking and reflective waves transformation etc..

It's much beyond the so called public 13 Indian specific enhancements..

 

[_Anonymous_]

SE was a separate requirement for Fw bases

We getting enough that almost all new planes OEMs major has to bring to table far more.
About what Team Rafale and French government is sharing, most is written here..

What I can say is beyond Rafale, Engine it's far more strategic including something in a new ALCM, our network centric warfare infrastructure access allowing us operate next gen drones, a new stealth coating which needs less application and far lower maintainence, aerodynamic structural and metallurgical access to certain fabrication aspects..some more on radar, stealth and situation awareness.. one particular field of deep research is a complete electronic warfare system with anti hacking and reflective waves transformation etc..

It's much beyond the so called public 13 Indian specific enhancements..

Is FGFA dead ? Can you elaborate on it and it's aftermath and repercussions on Indo Russian strategic partnership and alternatives to FGFA?

 

[vstol Jockey]

If Rafael deal is done and dusted, why has SE concept not been scrapped ?

Also, if Rafael deal is done, are we getting the technologies? Besides, India cancelled MMRCA 1 as it did not have enough money to buy 126 rafaels. How will it buy the same/more now?

even with 200 Rafales thru MII route, IAF will need another 250 fighters over next 15 years to replace M2K, Mig-29s and Jaguars. Rafale numbers will only make up for the Mig-27s which have been retired from service and LCA will make up for the Mig-21 variants which have been retired. IAF is not backing LCA MK2 at all and ADA is somehow trying to fool its way with IN to get funding for MK2 variant. IN has categorically put its foot down on LCA of any denomination. what I have posted here is as true as coming from proverbial "Horse's Mouth".

SE was a separate requirement for Fw bases

Now you know why I have reverted to MSA SE? I have no competition there at all. Very soon I will have the 3D design of MSA SE ready using the systems of LCA MK2.

 

[Desi Lover]

SE was a separate requirement for Fw bases

We getting enough that almost all new planes OEMs major has to bring to table far more.
About what Team Rafale and French government is sharing, most is written here..

What I can say is beyond Rafale, Engine it's far more strategic including something in a new ALCM, our network centric warfare infrastructure access allowing us operate next gen drones, a new stealth coating which needs less application and far lower maintainence, aerodynamic structural and metallurgical access to certain fabrication aspects..some more on radar, stealth and situation awareness.. one particular field of deep research is a complete electronic warfare system with anti hacking and reflective waves transformation etc..

It's much beyond the so called public 13 Indian specific enhancements..

Ok, so will this be in the news soon?

 

[Arvind]

Source Based

1. The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media
2. its changed to all system , sub system, minor and major parts direct production in an Indian ecosystem along with substantial passage of industrial know how and metallurgical process to Indian entities.
3. A part of the process will also get shared with Indian research entities.
4. All that will flow into basically the Indian Aircraft program with program development of LCA MKxx series.
5. The engine is freezed at Kaveri Family which will now have adequate power to take upto 30 ton MTOW in TE config and in future will be apply to take more MTOW ( )
6. We are slowly reaching a position where if there is no major redesign needed a lot of Indian ecosystem produced engines in our fleet may see usage over next decade in both AF and Navy.
7. Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed.
8. For F-35 a small update - we still have not acquired a no strings attached status.
9. It's the same for F18 (no Nuclear strike role for US crafts).
10. Second USA gov and LM again said access to F35 under priority status but the defined status includes a "global remote monitoring system" for "ensuring the usage is as defined by US laws and Senate directives" (wonder why Indian journos still want F35 like this )
11. One more thing that is defined clearly is number of parts, systems and planes to order in order to access more advanced technology. Meaning order legacy to access advanced.. (@halloweene - IN MRCBF limitation point no 9, 10 and 11))
12. This is why French side access is unprecendented and their whole ecosystem creation will make US cry more. So Anti Rafale and anti French issues will be created as I have said time and again.

@vstol Jockey
Mig35 with Safranised Kaveri is explored along with few more things..


.

Put a lid on any acquisition from US more offensive than an attack helicopter.

More or less dropped/Scrapped

Hell No. It will soon be signed. F-35 are not coming.

 

[Desi Lover]

even with 200 Rafales thru MII route, IAF will need another 250 fighters over next 15 years to replace M2K, Mig-29s and Jaguars. Rafale numbers will only make up for the Mig-27s which have been retired from service and LCA will make up for the Mig-21 variants which have been retired. IAF is not backing LCA MK2 at all and ADA is somehow trying to fool its way with IN to get funding for MK2 variant. IN has categorically put its foot down on LCA of any denomination. what I have posted here is as true as coming from proverbial "Horse's Mouth".


Now you know why I have reverted to MSA SE? I have no competition there at all. Very soon I will have the 3D design of MSA SE ready using the systems of LCA MK2.

Isnt AMCA supposed to replace M2k, 29s and jaguars?

Besides, India had a total of 165 Mig 27s. That means it will get 165 Rafaels max if it is getting them only to replace the 27

 

[randomradio]

IN wants minimum one feet safety margin on each side. this means the lift width is reduced to 9.4m. rafale has a wing span of 10.8m. DA needs to find a way to reduce the span to 9.4m. And they have no solution.

Yep. There are only two ways possible for Rafale. Either fold wings or cut the elevator.

 

[Aashish]

Is FGFA dead ? Can you elaborate on it and it's aftermath and repercussions on Indo Russian strategic partnership and alternatives to FGFA?

The challenge is Indian defence procurement never calls it as dead.

What we wanted, Russia is not ready to give access to as well as not agree on certain aspects in techo commercial agreement.

This has caused a stalemate. That has been the status for last 2 years. Contrary to Russian media quotes or official snips, truth is it's dying a slow death with time.

Unless Russia changes things, it's not gonna change anything.

IAF experience of MKI has taught it to be really hard.

Moreover if IAF gets 200+ Rafales then I am sure it will agree for FGFA in max 60 odd numbers.. but beyond it, it's doubtful.

With Kaveri family now coming online a new AHCA is becoming a strong reality after AMCA. So scope of FGFA is further going down.

 

[RATHORE]

Rafale deal as I had been saying is done and dusted and with Safran engine deal the whole equation changed.

So what sort of final numbers are we looking at? And is this for the IAF and INAA, or just IAF?

For F-35 a small update - we still have not acquired a no strings attached status.

Any idea when that could happen, or what it might take?

It's the same for F18 (no Nuclear strike role for US crafts).

Isn't the INAA likely to go for Rafales anyways?

The concept of SE tender is not scrapped as reported in the media

Is that likely to end in an order for F-16's?

Second USA gov and LM again said access to F35 under priority status but the defined status includes a "global remote monitoring system" for "ensuring the usage is as defined by US laws and Senate directives" (wonder why Indian journos still want F35 like this )

So what do we do when it comes to stealth aircraft? The PAK-FA still seems to be nowhere.

 

[RATHORE]

Most likely IN will get Mig-35 plus HAL as MII partner for more of them for IN with Kaveri engine and IAF will get more Rafale as MII.

That must be for the Vikramaditya, right? What about future ships, won't they need Rafales for those? After all, the Navy didn't seem to be a big fan of the 29K's.

 

[RATHORE]

More or less dropped/Scrapped

Whoa, really? Where'd you get that? And if so, what options does that leave India with for stealth fighters?

 

[Arvind]

The challenge is Indian defence procurement never calls it as dead.

What we wanted, Russia is not ready to give access to as well as not agree on certain aspects in techo commercial agreement.

This has caused a stalemate. That has been the status for last 2 years. Contrary to Russian media quotes or official snips, truth is it's dying a slow death with time.

Unless Russia changes things, it's not gonna change anything.

IAF experience of MKI has taught it to be really hard.

Moreover if IAF gets 200+ Rafales then I am sure it will agree for FGFA in max 60 odd numbers.. but beyond it, it's doubtful.

With Kaveri family now coming online a new AHCA is becoming a strong reality after AMCA. So scope of FGFA is further going down.

What is a 5th gen alternative available for India? I dont see an American fighter filling that role with n number of strings attached.

FGFA must come.

 

[randomradio]

Is FGFA dead ? Can you elaborate on it and it's aftermath and repercussions on Indo Russian strategic partnership and alternatives to FGFA?

FGFA isn't dead.