IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

Status
Not open for further replies.
smestarz said:
Do you really mean to say that the size of the nation determines how capable the plane is and its sales?
Canada geographically much bigger than France and Canadian economy is quite good and yet they have no plane to produce or offer.
on the other hand, SAAB has produced and sold more Gripen then France has sold Rafales ..
The logic is very clear there are only two ways that the French try to get the orders, either by intimidation or by bribing. Egypt and Qatar orders seem to be political orders set to ensure that the UNSC member France will veto any move against these countries. Also the advantage is a good plane.

But then when you look at all orders that were lost.. Korea, Switzerland, Brazil to name a few..

Sweden does not intimidate others they simply have a better way of "management"
Click to expand...
Bigger ie numbers of people or GDP.

The political weight of a country is in direct link with its GP. So yes, USA or GB+D+SP+IT weight more than France alone. And a weapon sale, specially a fighter one, is also a political affair (see Qatar purchasing 3 differents fighter so as to purchased a large political umbrella).

Sale in Egypt : no need to have another UN member in the pocket : they already had USA. But Egypt didn't want to rely only on USA. They wanted another plane so as to bench mark the F16, and the US support. They are so delighted that they want 12 or 24 planes more.

Korea : Rafale won technically. But loose politically.
Switzerland : Rafale won technically. But loose politically. In fact no winner in this competition. Rafale remain in the course.
Brazil : Embraer wanted to share the dev. of a fighter. Rafale and SH18 were mature. Gripen NG was again on the drawing board...
 
smestarz said:
Also I did want to add, Earlier in Syria the french were hitting targets with impunity, After the Russians Su-30 SM came into the picture why did French Rafales keep within Iraq only? Maybe they were told to restrict themselves to Iraq ?
BTW this is history too
Click to expand...
Then why are they still conducting regular sorties over Syria to support the SDF?
 
Actually after Gen Sisi came to power, its not really a Democratic elections. But in a way the Americans are not really pro SISI or anti SISI
But considering egypts proximity to Israel and if Israel feels threatened, the Americans would act against SISI and hence this political purchase from France and Russia..

To just put in different prospective.
Korea whatever the case, Koreans purchased American weapons
Swiss did sign contract for Gripen and not Rafale, The swiss do not have a credible threat so they dont need a top end fighter.
Brazil Again then Gripen wins
India, though Rafale was L1 the order for 126 (+63) not signed and France is just stuck with 36 though a good order
Indonesia.. ordered su-30
Hardly any place Rafale is getting orders,

The French might soon get a feeling that the whole world is against them


Bon Plan said:
Bigger ie numbers of people or GDP.

The political weight of a country is in direct link with its GP. So yes, USA or GB+D+SP+IT weight more than France alone. And a weapon sale, specially a fighter one, is also a political affair (see Qatar purchasing 3 differents fighter so as to purchased a large political umbrella).

Sale in Egypt : no need to have another UN member in the pocket : they already had USA. But Egypt didn't want to rely only on USA. They wanted another plane so as to bench mark the F16, and the US support. They are so delighted that they want 12 or 24 planes more.

Korea : Rafale won technically. But loose politically.
Switzerland : Rafale won technically. But loose politically. In fact no winner in this competition. Rafale remain in the course.
Brazil : Embraer wanted to share the dev. of a fighter. Rafale and SH18 were mature. Gripen NG was again on the drawing board...
Click to expand...
 
No matter how much you people debate or whatever numbers you give for the procurement, well...
Me being from the industry have to just say one thing, without self reliance and industrial power and capability to absorb the technology, India can't do well in the field of aerospace especially commercial and military jet manufacturing.

I still get shocks when I say we still do not have very advance department in IISc and IITs for precision technique and neither we posses top class research in the area of material technology.

Without these two India for ever has to rely on foreign imports and when it comes to foreign imports, you all know how bureaucracy works.
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: bonobashi and Dagger
smestarz said:
Its funny. That when the French pilots flying their then upgraded Mirages against MiG-29A say that those are not that good, But then there are two cases, which might need your explaination.
During Kargil, why were the French mirages on strike roles sent with Indian MiG-29 escort to keep the PAF F-16 away, As per the French pilots Mirage 2000 should be capable to handle the PAF F-16 right? IAF operational commanders know the true capability of Mirage 2000 vs F-16 that PAF uses and know that MiG-29 was the only plane in IAF then that could take down those F-16 not the Mirage 2000

Also the pilots who test Tejas are the pilots who operationally flew Mirage 2000 and they say as per their experience that Tejas is performs way better than Mirage 2000.. Then based on this logic, Tejas is way better than Mirage 2000 which is as good as F-16 ? Its what that implies yes?

BTW MiG-29 can pull 9G limit,.. Do check your sources..
Click to expand...

If I am right the Mirage 2000 was modified to attack ground targets in high altitude areas where Jaguars were ineffective. mig 29 was used to escort the Mirages. Doesnt mean the M 2000 cant take on the F16s.......
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Bon Plan and Bali78
Bon Plan said:
???? prove it ! first time I read Tejas is better than M2000. M2000 is the bench mark for Tejas.
Click to expand...

No offence from another member. Its true that Mir 2000 was used as a high altitude ground attack aircraft and had Migs 29 protecting them. What the member doesnt understand is an aircraft cannot perform 9G's when strapped to heavier ground attack bombs. Doesnt mean the M 2000 cant take on the F16. I work in the Electronics industry and I do know the capabilities of Thales and SAAB.

M2000 is the bench mark for Tejas. And pilots who worked than Tejas remarked that the aircraft handling is a lot better than M 2000. However facts to remember is Mir 2000 is a 80s aircraft while Tejas testing started in 2002. So its bound to evolve.
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: Ironhide, Sathya and Bali78
Vicky said:
No offence from another member. Its true that Mir 2000 was used as a high altitude ground attack aircraft and had Migs 29 protecting them. What the member doesnt understand is an aircraft cannot perform 9G's when strapped to heavier ground attack bombs. Doesnt mean the M 2000 cant take on the F16. I work in the Electronics industry and I do know the capabilities of Thales and SAAB.

M2000 is the bench mark for Tejas. And pilots who worked than Tejas remarked that the aircraft handling is a lot better than M 2000. However facts to remember is Mir 2000 is a 80s aircraft while Tejas testing started in 2002. So its bound to evolve.
Click to expand...

Bon Plan said:
???? prove it ! first time I read Tejas is better than M2000. M2000 is the bench mark for Tejas.
Click to expand...

As it stands today, in terms of electronics, the Tejas is between the Mirage-2000H and Mirage-2000I. But in terms of performance, they are roughly on par.

The Tejas that can surpass the M-2000I is yet to fly.
 
randomradio said:
As it stands today, in terms of electronics, the Tejas is between the Mirage-2000H and Mirage-2000I. But in terms of performance, they are roughly on par.

The Tejas that can surpass the M-2000I is yet to fly.
Click to expand...

Electronics I can understand. Tejas is and will be better due to industrial evolution. I believe Tejas fuselage needs to be elongated to enable it to carry more fuel, mass and combat time. mk2 will be a game changer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom