India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[NKVD]

What constitute an act of war?

An enemy nation sanctioning air strike on your military installation falls in what category as per your understanding?

There Is Nothing For My understanding Policy is there For Every body To read For that matter both Sides Military Multiple times Target Each others brigade HQ and Ammo dumps across LOC

There PAF F-16 Blk 52 Can be armed with GBU-24 Paveway III and JDAM Which has ability To hit Without Crossing LOC With Pin point Accuracy

 

[Sathya]

Five IAF Spice 2000 bombs hit JeM camps in Balakot, govt satellite images show

Five IAF Spice 2000 bombs hit JeM camps in Balakot, govt satellite images show
High-resolution images procured by India show two JeM structures were hit by IAF in Balakot on 26 February.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIPUpdated: 19 March, 2019 3:40 pm IST

File photo of Mirage 2000 fighter jet | Manvender Vashist/PTI

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New Delhi: Five Mirage 2000 fighter jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF) dropped as many Spice 2000 precision-guided bunker-busting bombs when India struck camps of the terror group Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) in Pakistan’s Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa on 26 February, according to new official information shared with ThePrint.

And two of the three intended targets, including the main training centre of the JeM, were conclusively hit, high-resolution images procured by India from its own satellites as well as those of friendly nations show.

The view of the third, a guest house suspected to have housed trainers and JeM chief Masood Azhar’s brother-in-law Yusuf Azhar alias Ustad Ghauri, was blocked by the heavy tree cover on the hilltop where the camps stood.

Contrary to reports that bad weather conditions on the day of the strike prevented clear pictures, top defence sources said that India has managed to get multiple high-resolution pictures of the structures, including those of repairs being carried out on the roof of one after the attack......

There are six structures at the attack site, including a large mosque, but the IAF was tasked with targeting three.

A two-storey building that housed most of the cadres, including suicide bombers in training, was the primary target, and was hit by three bombs, sources said.

The three Spice 2000 that hit this building came with timers — configured on the basis of the structure’s make and the material used — that enabled them to go off only after reaching the ground floor.

The other two were the guest house and a single-storey building believed to house new recruits.

Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale said after the 26 February IAF strike that it eliminated “a very large number of JeM terrorists, trainers, senior commanders and groups of jihadis who were being trained for fidayeen action”, but the exact toll is not available as yet.

According to information generated through technological means and human intelligence, the structures housed as many as 300 terrorists, sources have said.

The numbers are said to have swelled in the aftermath of the Pulwama attack, as the JeM pulled back cadres from the border amid fears of a 2016-like surgical strike, when the Indian Army’s special forces crossed the Line of Control (LoC) to destroy terrorist launch pads.

The Pakistani military has thrown open the Balakot area where the camps were located for the media, and organised trips to a site in the forest where they claim the bombs fell but is suspected to be a ground for explosives training.

But the JeM camp being run under the cover of a madrassa remains out of bounds.

 

[screambowl]

See normal people don't know what AMRAAM is what Mig21 or F16 is , or R77 R73, what they see is our boy was shot down and there is a wreckage of Mig21 and Pakistan returned him back by dishonouring him with the video. What ever reasons in the background for the release we don't know. So it's like in publicity, Pakistan has the upper hand right now there is no conflict about it.

 

[Sathya]

See normal people don't know what AMRAAM is what Mig21 or F16 is , or R77 R73, what they see is our boy was shot down and there is a wreckage of Mig21 and Pakistan returned him back by dishonouring him with the video. What ever reasons in the background for the release we don't know. So it's like in publicity, Pakistan has the upper hand right now there is no conflict about it.

True .. even when I tried to explain, next question will be , so we are still flying vintage aircrafts (Mig 21) ?

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

including those of repairs being carried out on the roof of one after the attack...

@Falcon said same after analyzing one picture of failed trip of Retures also unusually shiny roof of one structure was also seen in a photo taken 12 hrs later shared by Shajida.

 

[screambowl]

Sir. Again, sincere request read about Stand Off Weapons and their guidance.

Sir, are you pointing that PAF intentionally off shot the payload?

 

[_Anonymous_]

Balakot: How India planned IAF airstrike in Pakistan | An inside story


This was the scoop by India Today, I was referring to.

@BlackOpsIndia ; @Falcon

 

[Arvind]

There Is Nothing For My understanding Policy is there For Every body To read For that matter both Sides Military Multiple times Target Each others brigade HQ and Ammo dumps across LOC

There PAF F-16 Blk 52 Can be armed with GBU-24 Paveway III and JDAM Which has ability To hit Without Crossing LOC With Pin point Accuracy

I am yet to ascertain what you want to say in your post.

Policy on paper and policy in real can be different. I was just querying on what criteria enemy state sanctioned air strike on our military installation can not be qualified as an act of war. Whether they strike from their air space or our doesn't count. Missiles always gets launched from enemy land.

Feel free to quote Indian policy.

For me its an act of war, infact them sniping or soldier as well. Its just about acknowledging the same and act accordingly.

 

[Sathya]

Sir, are you pointing that PAF intentionally off shot the payload?

He has clearly told that there is no chance for entire PGM s to miss the target.

Intentionally targeted the compound ground or anywhere else , we haven't seen the evidence on bomb or crater in ground .

I guess he won't go further into it.

 

[screambowl]

He has clearly told that there is no chance for entire PGM s to miss the target.

Intentionally targeted the compound ground or anywhere else , we haven't seen the evidence on bomb or crater in ground .

I guess he won't go further into it.

So IAF's official statement was incorrect?

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

One thing puzzling is if PAF wanted a symbolic raid to pacify domestic audience by firing weapons from stand off range as it looks by the nervousness of ISPR and Imran after things got hot and accounting their current situation where they certainly can't afford escalation and are begging world powers to avoid it why did F16 fired upon Su30?

Was it a case of self glory for F16 pilots that they disregarded objective or they got a go ahead after one of f16 got a lock on Su30 to get something extra from the raid? Or did Abhinandan fired upon them first and after realizing the loss they somehow wanted a Su30 to level the scores? @vstol Jockey @Falcon

 

[screambowl]

One thing puzzling is if PAF wanted a symbolic raid to pacify domestic audience by firing weapons from stand off range as it looks by the nervousness of ISPR and Imran after things got hot and accounting their current situation where they certainly can't afford escalation and are begging world powers to avoid it why did F16 fired upon Su30?

Was it a case of self glory for F16 pilots that they disregarded objective or they got a go ahead after one of f16 got a lock on Su30 to get something extra from the raid? Or did Abhinandan fired upon them first and after realizing the loss they somehow wanted a Su30 to level the scores? @vstol Jockey @Falcon

Mahaghatbandhan b/w R&AW and ISI to stage drama. They will satisfy their audience India will satisfy it's audience. Things will de-escalate automatically. Both carried out airraids on eachtoher on xyz place with xyz causality. Both fired AA missile on eachother without hitting the target. But plan botched by Abhinandan by not following ROE. And leading to a actual war on 27th Feb. But things de-escalated.

It is not possible that two armies are fighting with eachother with missiles, air raids and dropping bombs or firing rockets on LC with big guns and there is not a single update from military or single clip. Government offices are working normally and no seriousness or no panic.
I have started to doubt things now. This is not how you prepare for war or even fight a war.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

Too much has been written criticizing Abhinandan for not following RoE, went for glory etc, getting captured & India coundnt move up the ladder of escalation due to it etc

I would only like to say onething, has anyone pondered that early intercept by Abhinandan was the reason that the LGB were released so soon in haste, Had it not been for one man head on intercept against an overwhelming 24 aerial assets, that Pakistan LGB might have hit Indian brigade headquarters, ammunition dumps and administrative bases causing extreme damage & loss of life. Surely the Indian objective could not have been to let Pak kill a ton load of Soldiers/Officers to start a full fledged war.

Yes his actions, gave pak the temporary upper hand in perception warfare, but he may be the cause which saved 100's of life on ground & India got one off Pakistan best bird, acknowledging its demise for them, would tantamount to them saying they are totally vulnerable. And a big boost for India, that even the worst Indian assets can bring down the best assets & that too in a overpowering 24 active birds scenario.

If pak objective was peaceful & not provoke hostilities ie LGB delebretly in ground & not to kill/damage Indians, it wont have released so many of ARMAAM missiles on other hand, now would it?

 

[Hellfire]

See normal people don't know what AMRAAM is what Mig21 or F16 is , or R77 R73, what they see is our boy was shot down and there is a wreckage of Mig21 and Pakistan returned him back by dishonouring him with the video. What ever reasons in the background for the release we don't know. So it's like in publicity, Pakistan has the upper hand right now there is no conflict about it.

True. But don't you see that by not reacting why the present Government has indeed allowed the public sense of anger and dissatisfaction to fester, thereby allowing it to be a force for two fold advantages - elections as also a public support to undertake necessary steps further?

When I say elections, one has to understand that the elections are the immediate issue, India will not allow any event to undermine it's pride - it's democracy, something which allows it to wield a significant moral strength in the world, which has diplomatic spin offs. With the election done away with, and with the indicators coming in of a Modi-2 Government likely in, the country can continue to deal with our pesky neighbour more resolutely without being undermined by 'with an eye to elections Modi is doing this' refrain curtailing the might of the Government of India.

That perception, that Modi is trying to seek war to win election, is something that is being pushed by Pakistan and given due credence by utterances of people like Kejriwal and Mamta Bannerjee. In such a scenario, the diplomatic support without giving them the opportunity to 'bring Pakistan to heel' for a war, will be undermined by this view point.

 

[Hellfire]

@Falcon said same after analyzing one picture of failed trip of Retures also unusually shiny roof of one structure was also seen in a photo taken 12 hrs later shared by Shajida.

I find it somehow more difficult to convince my fellow country(wo)men than Babaji. What can I say .....

 

[_Anonymous_]

Possible, probable. Not conclusive. I would file this, your point here, as being the accepted level of risk as per GoI. Can I call it as such? No, purely my speculation.

I think the GoI decided at that very point ( the shooting down & capture of Wing Co Abhinandan) to de escalate using the incident as an excuse. For all you know, they may have laid the blame at the door of the IAF. We have nothing in the public domain to go by, to suggest otherwise.

All this could be controlled ie the narrative could be controlled if we had a proper doctrine to take care of Pak sponsorship of terrorism at its roots.This after Doval stated before he became the NSA that if Pakistan stages another 26/11, they make lose Baluchistan.I wonder what does he have to show after 5 years in spite of being the espionage / counter espionage biz all his life.

I've always held that the most effective way to combat terrorism is initiation of such activities in the state supporting such undertakings in our land. Nowhere is this more true than of Pakistan, where this may be the most potent weapon in our arsenal. Much more than surgical strikes or CSD, leave aside a full blown war.

As I remarked earlier, we still haven't rid ourselves of our Pussilanimity in toto.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

My analysis, after going through a ton of posts here, Mods staying Apolitical is a myth!! better said than done. Now who can censure them, to stay on topic & not mix politics. Just Saying!!!

 

[Sathya]

Too much has been written criticizing Abhinandan for not following RoE, went for glory etc, getting captured & India coundnt move up the ladder of escalation due to it etc

I would only like to say onething, has anyone pondered that early intercept by Abhinandan was the reason that the LGB were released so soon in haste, Had it not been for one man head on intercept against an overwhelming 24 aerial assets, that Pakistan LGB might have hit Indian brigade headquarters, ammunition dumps and administrative bases causing extreme damage & loss of life. Surely the Indian objective could not have been to let Pak kill a ton load of Soldiers/Officers to start a full fledged war.

Yes his actions, gave pak the temporary upper hand in perception warfare, but he may be the cause which saved 100's of life on ground & India got one off Pakistan best bird, acknowledging its demise for them, would tantamount to them saying they are totally vulnerable. And a big boost for India, that even the worst Indian assets can bring down the best assets & that too in a overpowering 24 birds scenario.

If pak objective was peaceful & not provoke hostilities ie LGB delebretly in ground & not to kill/damage Indians, it wont have released so many of ARMAAM missiles on other hand, now would it?

Once the current war is over , we ll know more truth on this ...

 

[Sathya]

My analysis, after going through a ton of posts here, Mods staying Apolitical is a myth!! better said than done. Now who can censure them, to stay on topic & not mix politics. Just Saying!!!

There is nothing political here.. it just the interests coincide..

I frequently doubt myself whether I am looking for war ..

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

There is nothing political here.. it just the interests coincide..

I frequently doubt myself whether I am looking for war ..

not referencing to war here buddy