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funny, if Su30 is on Cap & Mig21 is in ORP-1, then who is giving jamming support, as far as I understand, Mig21 was pretty far away for any meaningful jamming support when it went down


Nothing funny. All has been discussed earlier in bits and pieces. Suggest read from post #1 of the thread. You shall have the picture quite clear by the time you reach this post. Number of aircrafts in initial are also mentioned somewhere. If not, 4 x Su-30s were on CAP towards South Kashmor. 02 x Mig-21s on ORP-1 at one AFB with 02 x Mirage 2000s on ORP-1 at the other AFB (as per my info). Jammers were on as soon as threat was evaluated by AWACS & Su-30s were vectored on intercept. Mig-21 Bisons were soon with them.


For @STEPHEN COHEN and you both .... the Mi17 was neither shot down by AIM-120C, nor is a case of blue on blue.

The reason is technical malfunction, which was communicated immediately. Exact reason will be ascertained after CoI is finalized.

Cheers am out now.

Later
 
Has anyone in pak asked ISPR any question regarding those 2 pilot which they officially claimed they have captured ? OR gaffur & team are crying in the corner and hoping no one asks this question.

I think the sane pakistanis now understand the picture and they know the answer and choose to not get shot by their own saviours.
 
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No it was never found. 02 x R-77s and 01 x R 73. Alongwith 01 x centerline EFT.

And even in that, your side messed up and showed the centreline EFT of F-16 and a very dark colour piece of fuselage casing, not found as skin color of Mig-21 but covering the mid section of the fuselage of PAF F-16 as a stripe.
Yeah, when it burns, it does change colour.
 
India’s aircraft carrier & nuclear subs deployment a ‘no-nonsense’ message to China, not Pakistan?

India’s aircraft carrier & nuclear subs deployment a ‘no-nonsense’ message to China, not Pakistan?
Published time: 19 Mar, 2019 02:26Edited time: 19 Mar, 2019 07:44

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INS Vikramaditya, Indian Navy's aircraft carrier. © Reuters / Shailesh Andrade

China is using Pakistan as a tool to contain India, so the redeployment of an aircraft carrier, warships and nuclear-powered submarines to North Arabian Sea is a clear signal to Beijing, rather than Islamabad, analysts told RT.

Despite the heated tensions around the Kashmir region, “India does not base its defence preparedness on what Pakistan does or does not do,” Gopalaswami Parthasarathy, former Indian envoy to Pakistan, said. The country is much more concerned about “what China does to contain Indian influence in the Indian Ocean,” he told RT.

Pakistan is an instrument used by China to contain India through supplies of weapons, missiles and even nuclear weapon designs.
“Pakistan, by itself, does not worry us. We can more than match and manage Pakistan,” he reiterated.

Indian Navy deploys aircraft carrier & nuclear subs to deter ‘misadventures’ by Pakistan

Indian military journalist, Shiv Aroor, also said that the naval forces of the two neighbours “aren’t near peers in terms of numbers, strength or capability — Pakistan, for instance, doesn’t operate nuclear submarines or aircraft carriers.”

However, “if maritime hostilities [between India and Pakistan] ever did break out in whatever form, China would almost definitely be in the mix,” he warned, acknowledging that such scenario would be a problem for New Delhi.

China has a significantly larger navy than India’s, with a much more robust submarine force.
As for the deployment of Indian naval assets, it is “about as no-nonsense a message, as you can send,” he said, adding, however, that “war is realistically and hopefully a very remote possibility in the circumstances.”

Dozens of Indian warships, including the INS ‘Vikramaditya’ aircraft carrier and several nuclear-powered submarines, were withdrawn from maritime exercises and sent close to Pakistani territorial waters on Monday.

In the meantime, Aroor said, deploying a naval group this powerful to “deny area – or in extreme events, create blockades across crucial shipping channels” isn’t entirely “off the table.”

“Nobody thought India would conduct air strikes inside Pakistani territory,” the journalist added. “That line has been crossed… The ball in most ways is in Pakistan’s court now.”

#BoycottChineseProducts trends on Indian social media after the latest block by China

The Indian Defense Ministry explained that the move was intended “to prevent, deter and defeat any misadventure by Pakistan in the maritime domain.” It indicated that the flare-up between the two countries, which began after a suicide attack on Indian troops by a Pakistani-based terror group in February and led to shellings and even aerial engagements in the border area, is far from over.

India’s relations with its other major neighbour, China, are also rather strained, as the two of the world’s most populous countries and fastest growing major economies are bound to compete. In 2017, skirmishes between Chinese and Indian troops broke out over China’s road construction in the disputed Doklam plateau in the Himalayas, but a major escalation was avoided.
What deployed?
It's home port is in the Arabian sea. So how India claiming to deploy something in a place where it has always been?
Another election trick by oh so pawahful modi?
 
@safriz Hey bro, where are the remaining 2 pilot ? gafoor has not tweeted about them since 27th Feb. I hope "sane" pakistani will ask them about those captured pilots, especially the one in the "Army Hospital".
 
What deployed?
It's home port is in the Arabian sea. So how India claiming to deploy something in a place where it has always been?
Another election trick by oh so pawahful modi?
The INS Chakra & INS Arihant were also deployed along with it. The IN has a filthy habit of seeing Karachi as target practice ever since 1971.It takes a great deal of persuasion to persuade them not to give in to their favorite fetish. What to do Saar, they're like this only!!

P. S - Did I mention that the Israeli SSBN's also hug the Indian littoral waters as they consider this their bastion and regularly train with IN. So much so that the acoustic signatures of all your submarines and naval ships are known to them & us, courtesy the accursed French. This is classified information but wth! You're an old pal. Just can't conceal such information from you.
 
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P. S - Did I mention that the Israeli SSBN's also hug the Indian littoral waters as they consider this their bastion and regularly train with IN. So much so that the acoustic signatures of all your submarines and naval ships are known to them & us, courtesy the accursed French. This is classified information but wth! You're an old pal. Just can't conceal such information from you.
Yeah :)
Yahood and Hanood! Finally fighting side by side! Be it air, water, land or space!
 
Exclusive: What Unreleased Satellite Images Of The Balakot Strikes Show

Exclusive: What Unreleased Satellite Images Of The Balakot Strikes Show

One of the images of the Indian Air Force (IAF)'s strike on the Jaish-e-Mohammed terror training camp in Pakistan's Balakot, seen by NDTV, is a monochrome high resolution photo.

Monochrome high reso. So for once NDTV seems to be not lying through their teeth. Panchromatic images do show-up as black and white. Also, Panchromatic images tend to be higher reso than multi-spectral ones(To the best of my knowledge). OR more likely they saw a SAR image. @Falcon


Getting this satellite imagery has been problematic for the Indian Air Force. NDTV has learnt that the best images that have been acquired come from a friendly partner nation. A satellite pass of the Balakot target in the hours following the IAF attack on the morning of February 26 did not reveal the detail the government was looking for because of the presence of clouds.

It is unclear if the government will ever release images of the attack.
This should indicate why we are not seeing the images floating around. Or govt telling everyone.
 
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Exclusive: What Unreleased Satellite Images Of The Balakot Strikes Show

Exclusive: What Unreleased Satellite Images Of The Balakot Strikes Show



Monochrome high reso. So for once NDTV seems to be not lying through their teeth. Panchromatic images do show-up as black and white. Also, Panchromatic images tend to be higher reso than multi-spectral ones(To the best of my knowledge). OR more likely they saw a SAR image. @Falcon



This should indicate why we are not seeing the images floating around. Or govt telling everyone.

From earlier article:

top defence sources said that India has managed to get multiple high-resolution pictures of the structures, including those of repairs being carried out on the roof of one after the attack.

I told ya. @Paro
 
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I feel on similar lines, Congress even with incompetence was able to keep Kashmir issue dead, even when it was by paying Hurriyet and Pakistan, tough in long run it was real bad for India but in short term it made Kashmir issue irrelevant.

What about 2010? Check for the disturbances and casualties then. This isn't a black & white, open and shut case. Kashmir is a dormant volcano and we're still in the process of nation building consolidation and pacification. Our notions of nation building along Gandhian principles of Ahinsa were chucked out long ago around the time we achieved independence by the Nehru Patel duo. The only ones who think otherwise are the Leftists and the Fiberals for their own motives.

Yaseen Malik is today being hauled before a CBI court for crimes committed in the early 90's.May I ask what prevented previous administrations from doing so? Yet see the adulation he enjoys among Lutyens Mafia today. Look at the Mirwaiz who's father was killed by Pakistan backed terrorists and compare it with what he did later. Hobnobbed with his fathers assasins and is still doing so after nearly 3 decades.At least Sajjad Lone is cut from a different cloth.

If Sajjan Kumar has been convicted today a full 36 years after the Sikh massacres, why didn't any GoI in Delhi think of doing so earlier? And this for a rank and certified coward like Malik, who facing extermination chose self preservation, surrender and tried to sugar coat it in typical Kashmiri style as appealing to India's Gandhian conscience - duly lapped up by Leftist and Fiberal scum in MSM, by opposing Delhi with non violent means. When the PDP - BJP govt there declared their intent of re setling Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley, he threatened retaliation.Whom is he fooling?


On Kashmir day ISPR motivates local news channels to discuss Kashmir, almost every anchor on that had a retired military personnel telling about Kashmir and all that but they were incredibly sad that issue is dead and not picking up heat. They use to conduct interviews of Pakistani public and nobody was showing any interest in Kashmir beside the usual bla bla bla.

But a change occur after BJP came to power and started taking tough tone w.r.t to Pakistan and Kashmir, it may not have changed ground realities but Pakistanis felt disrespected and also a grudge against Modi made Kashmir a topic of debate every other day in Pakistan. Then came Raheel Sharif and he invested a lot in Kashmir by regular speeches, cfv and terrorist attacks. He was able to make Kashmir hot, combined with our own BJP government.

The change occured for a precise reason. The co alition of two opposite poles namely the PDP & the BJP whom every MSM in Kashmir and Jammu , if I may add & the rest of India , every local party including cadres of the two and most of the recognised national parties in India wanted rendered unsuccessful & humiliated. This is our story. Do I need to tell you what Pakistan wanted?

The fact of the matter is by encouraging and engaging soft separatistism like tolerating the Hurriyat, turning a blind eye to their interactions with the international community particularly the Pakistanis, by facilitating their visits abroad to raise and further the Kashmir issue, we've encouraged them.

How long would this continue and what's the signal we're sending across to our CAPF's and the IA? What's the signal we're sending to other separatist movements in India? After all this isn't the only separatist movement on. What's the signal we're sending across to the rest of the world? Most importantly what's the signal we're sending out to Pakistan? Don't you think course correction was needed? If 7-8 million Kashmiris can hold a nation of 1.25 billion to ransom, God Forbid, what do we do if tomm the Jats decide to secede or the Ahirs or say an ethno linguistic group like the Tamils?


I say we've been too soft on them for too long. Clamp down on them, read the riot act and pin them under the jackboot. The world over that's how insurgencies were extinguished. We need to adapt ourselves to our age as well , which is where hybrid solutions are called for too. But this notion of forever being defensive and proving our credentials as a democratic and liberal regime - time & again, in the face of external sponsored terrorism, is to mind too much.

We've the example of Punjab before us. We've Xinjiang and Tibet too. Forget these and look at Pakistan quelling such unrest in FATA / KPK since the days of the ANP under Baadshah Khan or the Baloch resistance.

So for Pakistan BJP presented an opportunity to radicalize Kashmiris on lines of Islam and Hindu vs Muslim and make it international topic, thanks to our motor mouth ministers top to bottom they just made it worst and it became headline of everyday.

I think you're getting carried away. I quoted Najam Sethi to present his PoV not to uphold his view. His is a defeated man's argument. He also claimed in that interview that after what happened on 27th Feb, Pakistan enjoyed more support and great esteem in the world. Do you share his view?

Kashmiris can be radicalised all they want. They want to meet their maker. IA and the CAPF's will arrange it. As far as the JeI in Kashmir goes, they'd get their long overdue reward too. Let's not sound like UndyTV by giving little known ministers amplification of their views and thereby respectability.


Then we let social media unregulated in Kashmir which helped in creating Burhan Wani, the killing of whom provided a massive propaganda value and most of that propaganda was done by Indians, starting with Barkha Dutt who washed all his sins and then left parties notorious for their love with violence and terrorism kept that issue alive.

Create an alternative narrative. For every Barkha, unleash 10 Arnab ( Find local ones) and Kukka Parrays in Kashmir. More importantly find such gems, hone them, nurture them and protect them. Don't do to them what you did to Kukka Parray.

For every Burhan Wani there's an Aurangzeb. What did we do to further his narrative and sacrifice?

On the one hand you decry UndyTV. Next you despair at their coverage and what's worse sub consciously believe in it as well. This woman is the same one who justified KP genocide by declaring that they cornered all the prime jobs in the Government, were generally well off as compared to the Kashmiri Muslim and what's more were seen as collaborationists. Hence their fate was justified. Do we deduce that hard work, law abidement, thrift and industriousness among the citizenry are undesirable traits?

This is exactly the reasoning the Communists with hindu names used to justify the genocide of the Bengali Hindus in the then East Pakistan. Including that old fart Joe Shearer whose family got their due Pondy tike lath, only for him to repeat these tired and perverted strains out here couched in the safety of our land. What prevented them from staying back and reciting the Shahada? This includes the madam of Radia tape infamy - a Mohyal brahmin from across the LoC.Would have saved the Oxygen they breathe here that some worthy Indian citizen true to his salt could consume and productively utilize.

Aren't you lending credence to their perverted theory by believing it?


Indian express facebook cover pic and endless articles daily on how we are losing Kashmir and how a greatest ever freedom fighter was killed in cold blood and what not. An information war was unleashed on us exaggerating things many many folds and in all this both our government and security agencies did nothing. Only RW trolls tried countering that propaganda on social media, it was spectacular failure.

Please refer above.


Snakes were organizing students protests in JNU and other universities to "highlight" imaginary rapes/killings by Indian security forces and our goverment did nothing. When they did tried to crack down another spectacular idiot Rahul Gandhi went to support such anti national activities without even knowing what he is walking into.

Immaterial and irrelevant. Mainland India is strongly opposed to terrorism and separatism in Kashmir, MSM esp JNU inspired ones notwithstanding.



Rest is history then, country got divided, manipulated, agitated, always angry, both sides. I was a Pakistan watcher, use to keep a close eye on Pakistan on daily news and what's happening and I saw this in real time, Kashmir, from complete irrelevance frustrating Pakistani military thinkers to Nuclear flash point. Pakistan played her cards very well and we walked right into it most of the time.

Whom to blame? Decide yourself.

Pakistan is waging a lonely war. These are battles in the war of attrition. We need to get out act together. Pakistan has done all including thrown the kitchen sink at in the past 3 decades. Pls compare the situation in Kashmir today to what it was in the early 90's when the terrorists were running riot there and everyone thought it was a matter of time before India called it quits.

The narrative of Pakistan is discredited, defeated and lies buried. You can resurrect it at your own peril. Let's not emulate Lutyens and their pimps - the Congress and the Left and cut our nose to spite our face.
 
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From earlier article:

top defence sources said that India has managed to get multiple high-resolution pictures of the structures, including those of repairs being carried out on the roof of one after the attack.

I told ya. @Paro
:confused: I was focusing on the wrong structure the whole time.
 
Intresting, but even if they fired when Mig was closer to Su30 contrary to what media claims it still was intent to kill and unwarranted escalation given that their ground target were just symbolic to claim "proportional response".

Would they waste expensive as hell BVR missile on Mig 21 and that too multiple ones when they have Su30 as tempting target? Also why would they target Indian aircraft at all when both are in their respective air space? Shooting down an aircraft qualifies very well as act of war that too in your aggression on military targets. In combination this is asking for trouble and diplomatic harakiri.

It feels like Mig sneaked into WVR combat with f16, shot one down and got shot, when PAF saw Su30 around they started firing both in self defense and to get something meaningful instead of old Mig 21 after losing their best jet.

Don't know what happened but it doesn't make sense to start suicidal firing at a beast and invite it's wrath in a symbolic proportional response to destroy few trees of each other. Something spooked them could be downing of f16.

The last thing the establishment would want is JeM attacking them for not having avenged all the deaths in Balakot. So something tangible was needed. It is possible that Su-30s were targets since the beginning.
 
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Five IAF Spice 2000 bombs hit JeM camps in Balakot, govt satellite images show

Five IAF Spice 2000 bombs hit JeM camps in Balakot, govt satellite images show
High-resolution images procured by India show two JeM structures were hit by IAF in Balakot on 26 February.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIPUpdated: 19 March, 2019 3:40 pm IST

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File photo of Mirage 2000 fighter jet | Manvender Vashist/PTI

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New Delhi: Five Mirage 2000 fighter jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF) dropped as many Spice 2000 precision-guided bunker-busting bombs when India struck camps of the terror group Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) in Pakistan’s Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa on 26 February, according to new official information shared with ThePrint.

And two of the three intended targets, including the main training centre of the JeM, were conclusively hit, high-resolution images procured by India from its own satellites as well as those of friendly nations show.

The view of the third, a guest house suspected to have housed trainers and JeM chief Masood Azhar’s brother-in-law Yusuf Azhar alias Ustad Ghauri, was blocked by the heavy tree cover on the hilltop where the camps stood.

Contrary to reports that bad weather conditions on the day of the strike prevented clear pictures, top defence sources said that India has managed to get multiple high-resolution pictures of the structures, including those of repairs being carried out on the roof of one after the attack......

There are six structures at the attack site, including a large mosque, but the IAF was tasked with targeting three.

A two-storey building that housed most of the cadres, including suicide bombers in training, was the primary target, and was hit by three bombs, sources said.

The three Spice 2000 that hit this building came with timers — configured on the basis of the structure’s make and the material used — that enabled them to go off only after reaching the ground floor.

The other two were the guest house and a single-storey building believed to house new recruits.

Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale said after the 26 February IAF strike that it eliminated “a very large number of JeM terrorists, trainers, senior commanders and groups of jihadis who were being trained for fidayeen action”, but the exact toll is not available as yet.

According to information generated through technological means and human intelligence, the structures housed as many as 300 terrorists, sources have said.

The numbers are said to have swelled in the aftermath of the Pulwama attack, as the JeM pulled back cadres from the border amid fears of a 2016-like surgical strike, when the Indian Army’s special forces crossed the Line of Control (LoC) to destroy terrorist launch pads.

The Pakistani military has thrown open the Balakot area where the camps were located for the media, and organised trips to a site in the forest where they claim the bombs fell but is suspected to be a ground for explosives training.

But the JeM camp being run under the cover of a madrassa remains out of bounds.

Not enough. Their press statement is no longer enough. They need to release images.
 
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