India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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Don't you have anything else to say but to repeat same thing again and again? Are we not aware of what happened that you need to repeat it in such a pessimistic tone again and again? Losing a officer is not that big a thing in war that you are obsessed with. Ot boils our blood but don't lose your mind.
Nobody, no nation have attacked and made a mockery of other nuclear powered nation ever and we have done it twice with impunity. Those laughing at us should be shown mirror, even the best of them are right now as we speak are negotiating terms of surender to militant wing of ISI.
Read Vstol and other veterans, or watch ISPR conference and Imran Khan address you will know the situation of Pakistan right now. The decent treatment at least on camera to IAF pilot is not out of their goodness but they are literately begging not to escalate and if our pilot was not captured they would have cooled things down. Our pilot getting captured is what fkd up their calculations, otherwise they would have cooled down their public with mere dropping few kg bombs on empty fields.
There was very high propaganda going on last night to make Pak Army victorious in some twitter battle. Claims as big as killing 30 Indian soldiers and capturing 20 posts were made and Pakistanis were actually believing it. Morning symbolic raids were enough to make their public belive that they retaliated with overwhelming force. They could have believed their army shot down Indian helicopter and things could have been cooler but IAF plane getting shot down is what destroyed all and now we have no option but to hit again.
Our Officer in Pak custody today is most likely an Indian from either Karnataka or from the God's own country. We have to get him back. Come hell or high water.
Got a little treat for you all in the mean time (posted in closed forum of ex-military types of all flavours...mostly from NATO):
Mr. X: Isn't the major point of contemporary aircraft to make conditions favorable for their older siblings?
Mr. Y: Well, yes, but the Indians made a point of not committing their front-line aircraft in order to avoid compromising WARMs.
Mr. X: Also, is this really SAD at work, since it appears the Indians were not jumped, and the whole point of SAD is a high tech dive out of the sun and kill them before they know you are there? Isn't this shaping up more like a furball, especially given that the Indians with their inferior aircraft not only got their shot off, but the pilot survived and the rest of his flight got out?
Mr. Y: The ultimate expression of SAD is that the victim gets shot down by a missile he didn't see coming fired from an aircraft he didn't know was there. There is a corollary to that which applied here. If one side has a solid BVR capability and the other does not, SAD is used to conceal the situation from the side with BVR until we're down to knife-fight range. In a way this can be compared to a sniper vs a pistol-fighter. If the sniper does it right, the pistol-fighter gets killed before he/she/it even knows he is in danger. The pistol fighter can even things up by depriving the sniper of situational awareness and forcing a close-range battle where the odds are at least even and arguably favor the pistolman.
Nailing an F-16 in a close-in knife fight while flying a MiG-21 is (professionally) a win for the MiG pilot. If what we are assuming is correct - and everything is speculation right now - he did well to get the F-16 even if he lost his Bison in the process.
There's another hypothesis doing the rounds that suggests the IAF pilot got the F-16 but lost control of his MiG in the process and had to bail out. Knowing the flying characteristics of the MiG-21 Bison (think rabid rattlesnake on crack), that's really plausible.
(Mr. X is ex-USAF.....Mr. Y is ex-RAF...wont disclose any more than that)
@Falcon @Austerlitz @vstol Jockey et. al.
I will post more tidbits from there (the thread is already developing) as time goes by....they also much appreciate me giving some good updates away from media noise and twitter BS.
I will also try refer any of your best questions to them.
Mr. X: Isn't the major point of contemporary aircraft to make conditions favorable for their older siblings?
Mr. Y: Well, yes, but the Indians made a point of not committing their front-line aircraft in order to avoid compromising WARMs.
Mr. X: Also, is this really SAD at work, since it appears the Indians were not jumped, and the whole point of SAD is a high tech dive out of the sun and kill them before they know you are there? Isn't this shaping up more like a furball, especially given that the Indians with their inferior aircraft not only got their shot off, but the pilot survived and the rest of his flight got out?
Mr. Y: The ultimate expression of SAD is that the victim gets shot down by a missile he didn't see coming fired from an aircraft he didn't know was there. There is a corollary to that which applied here. If one side has a solid BVR capability and the other does not, SAD is used to conceal the situation from the side with BVR until we're down to knife-fight range. In a way this can be compared to a sniper vs a pistol-fighter. If the sniper does it right, the pistol-fighter gets killed before he/she/it even knows he is in danger. The pistol fighter can even things up by depriving the sniper of situational awareness and forcing a close-range battle where the odds are at least even and arguably favor the pistolman.
Nailing an F-16 in a close-in knife fight while flying a MiG-21 is (professionally) a win for the MiG pilot. If what we are assuming is correct - and everything is speculation right now - he did well to get the F-16 even if he lost his Bison in the process.
There's another hypothesis doing the rounds that suggests the IAF pilot got the F-16 but lost control of his MiG in the process and had to bail out. Knowing the flying characteristics of the MiG-21 Bison (think rabid rattlesnake on crack), that's really plausible.
(Mr. X is ex-USAF.....Mr. Y is ex-RAF...wont disclose any more than that)
@Falcon @Austerlitz @vstol Jockey et. al.
I will post more tidbits from there (the thread is already developing) as time goes by....they also much appreciate me giving some good updates away from media noise and twitter BS.
I will also try refer any of your best questions to them.
Everything is planned. Wait till night. Today's night is ours. They will be crying tomorrow morning. Pakistanis won't forget this night for years...
I hope soEverything is planned. Wait till night. Today's night is ours. They will be crying tomorrow morning. Pakistanis won't forget this night for years...
The guy's father had fought in Kargil war. His father was posted in Maharajpura base in MP and previously in B'lore. His father was a test pilot of Miraj 2K. As I said before, if India hit Pakistaini with old Miraj, they must have flown from Maharajpura base in MP.
If they're really short of fuel, you think they'd advertise it.They don't have fuel for fighter jets and other military hardware. And whatever is there will be finished by Navy tonight...View attachment 4584
I saw the video posted by some channels as the footage of actual air combat. CAP is generally flown as a deterrent and at higher altitude to allow the defending fighters to have energy advantage and longer reach with radar and missiles. In this case, it appears to me that when the strike came in, the CAP was broken and fighters dashed off to engage incoming enemy. In the process the the lead aircraft swung around to engage while the second aircraft following him provided tail cover. If you see the video carefully, you will see an aircraft turn at high altitude towards LOC. IMO, this aircraft was flown by Abhi. The other enemy aircraft got locked on by BVR missiles of the following aircraft which actually may have shot down the F-16. Abhi followed this F-16 into POK and became victim of SAMs/MANPADS. This is my take on it and I have no inputs about it. The video shows a missile trail from India towards POK. That was most likely the BVR shot from R-77 by the wingman which got the F-16.
When a CAP breaks to engage, they break off in Line/Trail formation. One aircraft goes forward while the other follows behind it. Unless the incoming strike is engaged within the CAP envelope. In such a case we maintain formation integrity and engage as pair of wolves.
Pakistan here we come. Mobilization started military trucks from southern command Pune moving out..
Below tanks moving out on trains unknown location..
Below tanks moving out on trains unknown location..
Very old Video. I have seen it a week ago.Pakistan here we come. Mobilization started military trucks from southern command Pune moving out..
Below tanks moving out on trains unknown location..
I realise what you say to be true,but until we answer posts like yours are no balm.Only action will satiate the nation now.Hopefully it comes within next 2 days.However i contest you claim that they didn't want to shoot down our plane,they were waiting in a trap deliberately.Maybe IK didn't want to escalate,but PAF certainly wanted to mend its prestige after balakot and get a trophy,they now need to be shown the error of their ways.
I am not being pessimistic,i am being realistic,this is not a war for territory -this is a war of perception and military damage.That is what we should target -real damage to their military to make them realise terror sponsoring has its steep price and control the narrative.
Right now we are unconfirmed on hardware damage ,and are losing the narrative/information war.
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