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You're wrong. If tomm, we decide to target him on a/c of no action by the Pakistanis, we can do it and they can't complain.The world community wouldn't bother. That's the idea.
Yeah that's the only positive spin for this development and that's a big 'IF', I don't think India will target him or Hafiz or Dawood, fearing a similar attempt on some high value person in India.

Though Pakistan has already targeted number of RSS leaders, killed them with impunity in Punjab and other places with additional aim of inciting riots. News of their killing got quickly buried, forget retaliation.

You think India will take such a step? When lives of Jawans is so readily available to be sacrificed when enemy becomes angry will our decision-makers ever bother risking their comfortable life?
 
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@safriz

CAA is Incurring Billions in Losses Since Air Space Closure

Lo jee, bade kush ho rahe the? Ab dekh lo kisko ho raha maximum damage. Hints its an airlines of "Most holy" nation.

PCAA is losing 1.5 billion PKR due to lost closure of Pakistan airspace. That is 75 carore INR. Was that what you called "Chillar Rupalli Dollars'?
On top of it PIA is losing 1 billion PKR additional. That is 50 Carore INR.
In total INR 125 Carore loss to Pakistan due to your Notam. Given the size of the economy and diversity and volume of revenue of respective organization, it is not too hard to see who is hurting more. India with 300 Carore losses or Pakistan with 125 Carore losses.
Ise kehtein hein Muflisi mein Aata gila aur Apne pair par kuladhi marna.

As someone very very wise here said (@Falcon) "We will fight Pakistan till last Pakistani" LOL.
@Nilgiri Any comments or obvious flaws in the argument?
 
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Unpopular opinion: But I don't think India should undertake any major offensive against Pakistan before 2021 until we have Rafales & S-400 fully operational. Because otherwise we will be pretty much going in for a war of attrition. Makes no sense. By 2021 we will have the comprehensive Air Power superiority to totally humiliate Pakistanis.

It isn't wise to go in for action without adequate preps. Till then we should rely upon economic strangulation and sub-conventional warfare.
We should pray that the PA takes some major military action against the PTM. That should set things rolling!
 
Unpopular opinion: But I don't think India should undertake any major offensive against Pakistan before 2021 until we have Rafales & S-400 fully operational. Because otherwise we will be pretty much going in for a war of attrition. Makes no sense. By 2021 we will have the comprehensive Air Power superiority to totally humiliate Pakistanis.

It isn't wise to go in for action without adequate preps. Till then we should rely upon economic strangulation and sub-conventional warfare.

We should pray that the PA takes some major military action against the PTM. That should set things rolling!
We can still fight on water. Barak is actually very effective against F-16. And honestly, IAF should simply dump all Mig-21s. Tell GoI they won't fly it. Simple.

What I find rather curious is why do we fight in the domain we are weakest in. Airforce is the weakest link of Indian defence right now.
 
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Unpopular opinion: But I don't think India should undertake any major offensive against Pakistan before 2021 until we have Rafales & S-400 fully operational. Because otherwise we will be pretty much going in for a war of attrition. Makes no sense. By 2021 we will have the comprehensive Air Power superiority to totally humiliate Pakistanis.

It isn't wise to go in for action without adequate preps. Till then we should rely upon economic strangulation and sub-conventional warfare.
We should pray that the PA takes some major military action against the PTM. That should set things rolling!
Don't worry, no major action in offing. Not today, not in 2021.

Rafale, S400 by 2021 but by that time Pakistan will have 5th Gen stealth from China and our plans will postpone to 2030 when our own stealth is ready, and then as per IST 8-10years of delay in indigenous 5th Gen Aircraft will push Indias plans further. Then 6th Gen aircraft, S500, S800 can come as logical reasons to postpone.

Rinse and repeat, till someone teach us principles of nonviolence and someday in a diplomatic victory we will surender POK to Pakistan and present LoC is converted to border, educating Indians how present conflict is unsustainable and surrendering POK is a better option (if Pakistan agrees).

Only wild card in this is if Modi faces problem in 2024, borders may heat up and Pakistans disproportionate escalation leads to war (only if it's electorally beneficial).
 
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There is no deescalation.... For the simple fact that PAF attacked Brig HQ......and that was escalation.... we are yet to respond to that....
There is a reason why Pak is still on high alert.... 2 weeks things would become hot again.....We have crossed the stage where we provided them the scope of deniability.... There wont be any open war.... But skirmishes.... will continue.... War of Attrition stage 2.....
 
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We can still fight on water. Barak is actually very effective against F-16. And honestly, IAF should simply dump all Mig-21s. Tell GoI they won't fly it. Simple.

What I find rather curious is why do we fight in the domain we are weakest in. Airforce is the weakest link of Indian defence right now.

The Mig-21 is still our best interceptor. Even upcoming fighter jets cannot compare with the Mig-21 in QRA, like the one that happened on the 27th.

The army is our weakest link, not the air force.
 
Don't worry, no major action in offing. Not today, not in 2021.

Rafale, S400 by 2021 but by that time Pakistan will have 5th Gen stealth from China and our plans will postpone to 2030 when our own stealth is ready, and then as per IST 8-10years of delay in indigenous 5th Gen Aircraft will push Indias plans further. Then 6th Gen aircraft, S500, S800 can come as logical reasons to postpone.

Rinse and repeat, till someone teach us principles of nonviolence and someday in a diplomatic victory we will surender POK to Pakistan and present LoC is converted to border, educating Indians how present conflict is unsustainable and surrendering POK is a better option (if Pakistan agrees).

Only wild card in this is if Modi faces problem in 2024, borders may heat up and Pakistans disproportionate escalation leads to war (only if it's electorally beneficial).

Pakistan won't be getting 5th gen jets anytime soon.
 
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Pakistan won't be getting 5th gen jets anytime soon.
A squadron on rent (like we have Russian submarine) won't be that hard provided there is incentive for China to make India suffer. Pakistan may not even need to pay in cash.

Edit:- I remember aashish told us even Russia was ready to sell them some good tech (S400 or Twin Engine jet) when our S400 deal was not concluded, expecting it from China won't be that hard.
 
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Yeah that's the only positive spin for this development and that's a big 'IF', I don't think India will target him or Hafiz or Dawood, fearing a similar attempt on some high value person in India.

Though Pakistan has already targeted number of RSS leaders, killed them with impunity in Punjab and other places with additional aim of inciting riots. News of their killing got quickly buried, forget retaliation.

You think India will take such a step? When lives of Jawans is so readily available to be sacrificed when enemy becomes angry will our decision-makers ever bother risking their comfortable life?
Where's the question of them targeting a high value target overtly in response to our taking out either a HS, MA or DI ? The latter are proclaimed offenders and on the US most wanted list of terrorists with the exception of MA.

If they weren't so scared of these guys safety, you'd be seeing them in the open. On the contrary DI is in hiding and as of now both HS & MA are running for cover constantly changing their locations every other day. That's another reason why NOTAM has been declared over Pakistan's airspace. They fear we may take out these assets anytime.

That's one of the takeaways of Balakote. Modi has introduced a degree of unpredictability in India's response. That's unnerving for them.
 
A squadron on rent (like we have Russian submarine) won't be that hard provided there is incentive for China to make India suffer. Pakistan may not even need to pay in cash.

Edit:- I remember aashish told us even Russia was ready to sell them some good tech (S400 or Twin Engine jet) when our S400 deal was not concluded, expecting it from China won't be that hard.
I don't think the Chinese will deal with Pakistan on credit. Not before not now not anytime in the future. They want the 5 gen AC. They pay hard cash. In fact, I personally think, money too wouldn't be a problem for PAF, if they've made up their mind to get it. Have you seen any reduction in the armed forces budget due to their financial woes?
 
Don't worry, no major action in offing. Not today, not in 2021.

Rafale, S400 by 2021 but by that time Pakistan will have 5th Gen stealth from China and our plans will postpone to 2030 when our own stealth is ready, and then as per IST 8-10years of delay in indigenous 5th Gen Aircraft will push Indias plans further. Then 6th Gen aircraft, S500, S800 can come as logical reasons to postpone.

Rinse and repeat, till someone teach us principles of nonviolence and someday in a diplomatic victory we will surender POK to Pakistan and present LoC is converted to border, educating Indians how present conflict is unsustainable and surrendering POK is a better option (if Pakistan agrees).

Only wild card in this is if Modi faces problem in 2024, borders may heat up and Pakistans disproportionate escalation leads to war (only if it's electorally beneficial).
It's not our response or lack of it going by the reactions here by several members over the past 2 months per se that's grating. It's Modi's milking of what's essentially a sub par achievement that's jarring. For all the brouhaha the BJP has made in its election campaign , you'd think it's 1971 all over again.

In many ways they are following the Congress playbook here except that the BJP has openly targetted Pakistan. Let me elaborate. There's no disproportionate response. Else you'd have seen a response to 27/02.The very fact that you didn't see it shows that whether it's the UPA or the NDA, their primary commitment is the economy. They aren't going to escalate. Merely threaten the use of force, for the most part.

The only difference is the degree of unpredictability in India's response under the BJP. Please understand that a massive strike in Muridke or Bahawalpur is always on the cards. Both the IAF & the GoI have learnt their lessons from the Balakote episode. And that's what the PA fears the most. They can't go to war. Their humiliation will be public. Their options as far as their reactions go , were we to target a Muridke or a Bahawalpur in the event of another Pulwama like outrage are that much more limited. The excuse the UPA used - namely that we couldn't afford to push the PA into a corner , show them in bad light, box them up, etc has been shelved. And the PA knows it.
 
Where's the question of them targeting a high value target overtly in response to our taking out either a HS, MA or DI ? The latter are proclaimed offenders and on the US most wanted list of terrorists with the exception of MA.

If they weren't so scared of these guys safety, you'd be seeing them in the open. On the contrary DI is in hiding and as of now both HS & MA are running for cover constantly changing their locations every other day. That's another reason why NOTAM has been declared over Pakistan's airspace. They fear we may take out these assets anytime.
We have capability, never said we didn't, they too know that but we have the will? MA, HS in tight security is precaution, few months from now he will be attending rallies in open, I won't read anything in those NOTAM, they are over very limited areas and are our only source of joy these days.

If we had to conduct a symbolic strike in Balakot to drive a message why not firing over the mast of GHQ if we really meant business? They didn't hesitate in targeting our brigade HQ, that too after declaring upfront and in daylight. Though things didn't pan out as they planned but still they clearly showed intent and our intent is always missing with half hearted attempts and half hearted efforts.

Did we not know that a major attack will happen, it's not the matter of if but when. We knew this in 2014 when Modi and Doval took charge, what capability we developed during these 5years to avenge the upcoming threat or neutralize Hafiz Saed and Azhar?

It's not easy to take them out, I doubt if we can even take them out without significant loss on our side too and then fearing retaliation. If we had that capacity MA would be the target not Balakot. We wait, wait and wait till enemy is fully prepared and then say it's not possible now, be content with whatever we achieved. Why there is no set pre planned, pre gamed strategy to deal with this inevitable outcome? Why not strike within hours of attack and surprise them? Its Parliament attack deja vu all over again with minor changes here and there, we are moving, we are mobilizing, be afraid of us, be very afraid of us but then we vanish.

Your threat has no value if you don't have intent to follow up. Modi's red lines are thoroughly probed by Pakistan and his 2nd term will see more and bigger attacks. He chickened out on night of 27th when everything was set. Now he himself admitted he is happy with mere return of Abhinandan as it earned him some good PR. International pressure and other things means nothing to a suicidal nation only brute force and pain can keep them in control.
 
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Unpopular opinion: But I don't think India should undertake any major offensive against Pakistan before 2021 until we have Rafales & S-400 fully operational. Because otherwise we will be pretty much going in for a war of attrition. Makes no sense. By 2021 we will have the comprehensive Air Power superiority to totally humiliate Pakistanis.

It isn't wise to go in for action without adequate preps. Till then we should rely upon economic strangulation and sub-conventional warfare.
We should pray that the PA takes some major military action against the PTM. That should set things rolling!

The timing of the next offensive will not be determined by what india plans,but by when the next major terror attack happens.When it happens we will go in,simple.Rafales will be here by september and s-400 1st regiment by october 2020.MRSAM by early 2020 in army.IAF already started induction.
 
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