Pakistan airspace will remain closed for flights coming from or going to Indian airspace till 15th June, 5.30 am
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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Pakistan airspace will remain closed for flights coming from or going to Indian airspace till 15th June, 5.30 am
SSG HQ is in Tarbela
We dont have a reason to hit it. Our line has been - We are fighting Terror.
IFF this is not another one of Baba's 4 5 March BS, it would probably be a terror camp strike.
You guys are completely wrong. Our target is SSG Hq for BAT actions and we will instill such fear in them that they do not even think about coming close to LOC. We have to decimate their pride and we will do it. Taking away heads and parading them will have to be paid by very same people who did it.
Can we move astrology related discussion to a seperate thread?
Forum should change name to astrology and prediction front. Wtf man whats this infatuation with astrology?
@nair sir we should at least have a separate thread for astrology so that not every thread become fiction and time pass.
Update - New thread discussing astrology and other similar stuff is created, please use that for future astro discussions. Thanks.
@nair sir we should at least have a separate thread for astrology so that not every thread become fiction and time pass.
Update - New thread discussing astrology and other similar stuff is created, please use that for future astro discussions. Thanks.
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Shortage of Airborne Warning and Control System crucial
Drawing lessons from the Balakot air strike, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has identified a shortage of Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft to provide round-the-clock surveillance as a major deficiency, IAF officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The air strike and the aerial engagement that followed in February were discussed in detail at the recent Air Force Commanders’ conference.
“The biggest lesson of February 27 was the need to have a core of high-end fighters for short skirmishes,” a senior IAF official said. “If we had the technological advantage, we could have imposed costs on the adversary,” the official asserted, adding, “We need to undertake resource optimisation.”
For that, the IAF is banking on the soon-to-be-inducted Rafale fighters, the tender currently under way for a new fighter aircraft and the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) MK-2 that is being developed, even as upgrades to the existing platforms make up for the shortages in the interim. “We also need to get better propaganda weapons,” the official said, without elaborating.
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Remedial measures
While aircraft induction is a long-term measure, in the short term, the IAF has identified AWACS, Software Defined Radios (SDR) and close-in weapons systems as immediate requirements. The process for their procurement is already in advanced stages. “We did not feel that we need anything new,” the official said, adding that everything had been thought of. “The process is on, that has to be hastened.”
Advantage Pakistan
Pakistan currently has an advantage as they have more AWACS. “They have seven AWACS and could keep one on our side at all times,” the official said.
In contrast, the IAF operates three Israeli Phalcon AWACS and two indigenous Netra Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Also, the platforms are not available all the time.
The IAF was now set to take the third Netra system (mounted on Embraer aircraft) from the DRDO, the official said.
The source said IAF is now taking the third Netra from DRDO for their use. Separately, a proposal for two more Phalcon AWACS has been in the works for a long time. There was progress on it recently and the proposal is now “pending final approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS).”
A deal for SDRs has been signed with Elbit Systems of Israel and the process for close-in weapons is at the technical evaluating stage.
Post Balakot, Indian Air Force zeroes in on key vulnerability
“The biggest lesson of February 27 was the need to have a core of high-end fighters for short skirmishes,” a senior IAF official said. “If we had the technological advantage, we could have imposed costs on the adversary,” the official asserted, adding, “We need to undertake resource optimisation.”
This is exactly what I meant when I said we should have had 40-50 MKIs with Irbis-E and 117S by now. I'm happy that the IAF has openly admitted this as a shortcoming so it won't be such a problem in the future.
In the short term, we will get 36 Rafales and 50-80 Super MKIs, so that will be that. But this is also why I have been proposing that the IAF should buy 63 modernised PAK FAs by 2030. The Rafale F3R/F4 and Super MKI are simply not going to be enough after 2030.
This is exactly what I meant when I said we should have had 40-50 MKIs with Irbis-E and 117S by now. I'm happy that the IAF has openly admitted this as a shortcoming so it won't be such a problem in the future.
In the short term, we will get 36 Rafales and 50-80 Super MKIs, so that will be that. But this is also why I have been proposing that the IAF should buy 63 modernised PAK FAs by 2030. The Rafale F3R/F4 and Super MKI are simply not going to be enough after 2030.
I am no military planner but if I have a neighbour like Pakistan I will always keep measures at hand to be deployed instantly to keep my house safe. I won't be searching for lathi danda when other come with guns and goons, I don't need to be paid for this, it's my duty, responsibility.
Shortage of Airborne Warning and Control System crucial
Drawing lessons from the Balakot air strike, the Indian Air Force (IAF) has identified a shortage of Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft to provide round-the-clock surveillance as a major deficiency, IAF officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The air strike and the aerial engagement that followed in February were discussed in detail at the recent Air Force Commanders’ conference.
“The biggest lesson of February 27 was the need to have a core of high-end fighters for short skirmishes,” a senior IAF official said. “If we had the technological advantage, we could have imposed costs on the adversary,” the official asserted, adding, “We need to undertake resource optimisation.”
For that, the IAF is banking on the soon-to-be-inducted Rafale fighters, the tender currently under way for a new fighter aircraft and the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) MK-2 that is being developed, even as upgrades to the existing platforms make up for the shortages in the interim. “We also need to get better propaganda weapons,” the official said, without elaborating.
powered by Rubicon Project
Remedial measures
While aircraft induction is a long-term measure, in the short term, the IAF has identified AWACS, Software Defined Radios (SDR) and close-in weapons systems as immediate requirements. The process for their procurement is already in advanced stages. “We did not feel that we need anything new,” the official said, adding that everything had been thought of. “The process is on, that has to be hastened.”
Advantage Pakistan
Pakistan currently has an advantage as they have more AWACS. “They have seven AWACS and could keep one on our side at all times,” the official said.
In contrast, the IAF operates three Israeli Phalcon AWACS and two indigenous Netra Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). Also, the platforms are not available all the time.
The IAF was now set to take the third Netra system (mounted on Embraer aircraft) from the DRDO, the official said.
The source said IAF is now taking the third Netra from DRDO for their use. Separately, a proposal for two more Phalcon AWACS has been in the works for a long time. There was progress on it recently and the proposal is now “pending final approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS).”
A deal for SDRs has been signed with Elbit Systems of Israel and the process for close-in weapons is at the technical evaluating stage.
Post Balakot, Indian Air Force zeroes in on key vulnerability
Infact I don't understand why there is no immediate retaliation and we keep waiting. Terrorist attack here and in 2 hours Indian jets bombed pre designated targets in Pakistan should be the logical standard operating procedure, escalation or whatever can be handled later because nothing happens later, EVER. Both India and Pakistan are full of pusillanimous decision makers that prefer to bow down to world leaders.
But look at the bright side we 'learned' after 27th incident, because getting attacked is something that can't be planned for, no country got attacked ever before, it was out of the world event so of course we didn't plan for it and learned from it.
Next time when PAF attack we may see Dakota or Folland Gnat leading the attack against J31 because Su30 will be performing Pugachev Cobra ducking missiles and then creating badges about it. Rafales will still be in negotiations, and after so many fancy toys we will be struggling for half decent missiles.
That's the level of planning in our country. We got more explanations on why Su30 didn't fire even after attack on them and military installations than for going all out on Pakistan.
Elections are over, mission successful. Cheers !!
I remember you said 7 squadrons of rafale + 50-80 super mki, wont it be enough till 2030?
To compete with the level of modernisation China is doing, we need a modernised platform every 10 years. And of course, the Chinese will naturally come out with a new modernisation of the J-20 also over the next few years. So we need the PAK FA even though we will be inducting Rafale and Super MKI.
In the long run, the Rafale and Super MKI will not be able to compete. MKI is too old now, and even if it matches or surpasses J-20's avionics, it cannot surpass the J-20's performance or low observable design.
As for Rafale, it is too small. Simply put, a heavy fighter is incomparable in terms of modernisation with medium and light fighters. It's because a heavy fighter can easily accept a more advanced but rudimentary radar whereas lighter fighters need the radar and other avionics to mature a lot before they can be deployed within its small confines. That's the reason why the Su-35 has unmatched detection range. So, post 2030, it won't be possible for the Rafale to keep up with the J-20's modernisation. Naturally, by 2030, you can expect the Chinese to introduce a smaller and more competitive fighter jet than Rafale as well.
In order to compete with the J-20, we most definitely need the PAK FA.
EDIT: I forgot to answer your core question. Yes, the Super MKI and Rafale are enough until 2030, but what I'm talking about is the period after 2030.
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if we are going for 7 rafale squadrons then last 2-3 squadron can be F4R, and if im not wrong F4R is a competitive fighter till 2035??? and after that we are supposed to have AMCA.
I'm assuming we will have 4 F3R squadrons through GTG and 6 F4s through MMRCA. But the induction of the F4s could be slow. The govt expects the deliveries of just 6 squadrons to take 12 years, so you can expect us to have just 2 squadrons by 2030.
But I don't believe it will be competitive with the J-20 Mk2 or Mk3 or whatever the Chinese would have come up between 2025 and 2035. There is quite a bit of uncertainty with the J-20 and the potential J-XX coming up.
So I would suggest looking at MKI/PAK FA and Rafale/AMCA as two separate acquisitions. The IAF also does the same. They clearly differentiated between the two classes during the Rafale hearing in the SC.
And even if the Rafale F4 has the same avionics as the post-2025 PAK FA or J-20, there will clearly be a very large performance gap between the two classes even without considering the low observable design. But then, there is also potential for the PAK FA and J-20 to carry even better avionics, like photonics radar, compared to the Rafale F4 due to the reasons I mentioned before.
Photonics radar & improved avionics? The Russians & Chinese both have problems with the current stable of AESA radars and avionics as compared to the west and you think they'd bridge and surpass the West in a decade? Any grounds for this optimism?
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