India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

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BlackOpsIndia said:
I never said pilots did, why will pilots create narrative? Narrative is being created by top brass for Rafale (as per argument of randomradio). It was argumentative don't get too worked up about it.
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You once said that you also have sources in the military. Two of them, to be precise. Did you get any new information from them. You said they were being tight lipped on the LOC operations.
 
The standoff is not over till Pakistan doesn't opens its air space & till Indian Army deployment are not to earlier peacetime, neither has happened so far, not to forget Indian Army aggressive stance in LOC.
Personally I will prefer it continues on permanent basis, not only we get better control of terrorist ingress points, keeps Pak on defensive, but most importantly, keeps Pakistan Defense budget high, which bleeds Pak stagnant economy, ever slowly to total collapse.
And next time any major terrorist activity happens, sponsored from across the border, we are in position to strike back ASAP from ready targets like Israel, to let down guard or let go of pressure be foolish. Till Pakistan changes stance to Terrorism or Non State actors as they call it or strategic depth.
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
I am no military planner but if I have a neighbour like Pakistan I will always keep measures at hand to be deployed instantly to keep my house safe. I won't be searching for lathi danda when other come with guns and goons, I don't need to be paid for this, it's my duty, responsibility.

Infact I don't understand why there is no immediate retaliation and we keep waiting. Terrorist attack here and in 2 hours Indian jets bombed pre designated targets in Pakistan should be the logical standard operating procedure, escalation or whatever can be handled later because nothing happens later, EVER. Both India and Pakistan are full of pusillanimous decision makers that prefer to bow down to world leaders.

But look at the bright side we 'learned' after 27th incident, because getting attacked is something that can't be planned for, no country got attacked ever before, it was out of the world event so of course we didn't plan for it and learned from it.

Next time when PAF attack we may see Dakota or Folland Gnat leading the attack against J31 because Su30 will be performing Pugachev Cobra ducking missiles and then creating badges about it. Rafales will still be in negotiations, and after so many fancy toys we will be struggling for half decent missiles.

That's the level of planning in our country. We got more explanations on why Su30 didn't fire even after attack on them and military installations than for going all out on Pakistan.
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Pakistan has shown it has tremendous asymmetrical edge over us. Now we have to reluctantly start 100 billion dollar upgradation program ultra high priority. Pakistan my still have an assymmetrical edge over us. This might help us reduce that edge little bit. As a peace loving country this is obviously a difficult decision for us but we cannot ignore the harsh lessons that Pakistan has taught us. Also remember this still have to decide what to do to the 50 billion dollar budget for fifth generation fighters. About time we committed that for the f-35.
 
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LoneWolfSandeep said:
The standoff is not over till Pakistan doesn't opens its air space & till Indian Army deployment are not to earlier peacetime, neither has happened so far, not to forget Indian Army aggressive stance in LOC.
Personally I will prefer it continues on permanent basis, not only we get better control of terrorist ingress points, keeps Pak on defensive, but most importantly, keeps Pakistan Defense budget high, which bleeds Pak stagnant economy, ever slowly to total collapse.
And next time any major terrorist activity happens, sponsored from across the border, we are in position to strike back ASAP from ready targets like Israel, to let down guard or let go of pressure be foolish. Till Pakistan changes stance to Terrorism or Non State actors as they call it or strategic depth.
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Now Modi will teach Pakistan what it is like bleeding with thousand cuts
 
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Golden_Rule said:
Now Modi will teach Pakistan what it is like bleeding with thousand cuts
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If I will be objective during Modi's time Pakistan didn't suffered many cuts, however during weaker Manmohan time Pakistan was having a hemorrhage but then India too was attacked time to time. During Modis era Pakistan won over TTP upto large extent, cleaned Karachi, reduced MQM, sidelined any Indian assets or India sympathetic leader in Pakistan. There is barely any attack in Pakistan except Baloochistan, real Pakistan (Punjab) is almost as safe as India.

Shows how effective was Modi and Doval against Pakistan. I had so much expectations from them but if you assess objectively Modi-Doval combo actually performed worst than previous government and now again White Flag, just when we were in a position to collapse Pakistan economically and end this tumor we decided to give them breathing space. Classic Indian psyche, always leaving enemy breathing and helping to recuperate and later crying when enemy shows it's true colors.
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
If I will be objective during Modi's time Pakistan didn't suffered many cuts, however during weaker Manmohan time Pakistan was having a hemorrhage but then India too was attacked time to time. During Modis era Pakistan won over TTP upto large extent, cleaned Karachi, reduced MQM, sidelined any Indian assets or India sympathetic leader in Pakistan. There is barely any attack in Pakistan except Baloochistan, real Pakistan (Punjab) is almost as safe as India.

Shows how effective was Modi and Doval against Pakistan. I had so much expectations from them but if you assess objectively Modi-Doval combo actually performed worst than previous government and now again White Flag, just when we were in a position to collapse Pakistan economically and end this tumor we decided to give them breathing space. Classic Indian psyche, always leaving enemy breathing and helping to recuperate and later crying when enemy shows it's true colors.
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List of terror incidents in Pakistan. Don't really look very peaceful if you see the detailed list. You have been more critical for Modi than he actually deserves :).
 
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Bali78 said:
List of terror incidents in Pakistan. Don't really look very peaceful if you see the detailed list. You have been more critical for Modi than he actually deserves :).
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Make a list of terrorist incidents like this in India too and see what changed between Manmohan and Modi. If you play like this by clubbing everything and make a report it will cut both ways. Incident report will count even grenade attacks are they impactful? or a truck bombs in the middle of Lahore blowing the brains out of city leaving 10 feet crater is impactful?

Karachi was den of criminal enterprises, got patronage from MQM and Altaf Hussain, it's a economic capital of Pakistan and was under constant fear because of large scale extortion, now that city is in much better condition and Altaf Hussain's ability to disrupt the city or help Indian assets is gone. Mind you crime plays havoc on economic activities, so Altaf alone was reducing few basis point form Pakistani GDP.

TTP was marching for Lahore and now even Fazllulah is killed. Can't protect him and it was US who killed him not Pakistan.

I have hardly been critical of Modi, merely pointing to facts and situation on ground praising him as my lord is not my habit or job. Ask a Pakistan if you think I am lying or exaggerating, ask him how safe he feels compared to 2011 and around, you'll get an idea.

P.S. I am not against Modi or Manmohan I am against anything that let Pakistan off the hook again and again and later create the drama of avenging. It's insult to the people who give life protecting this country.
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
Make a list of terrorist incidents like this in India too and see what changed between Manmohan and Modi. If you play like this by clubbing everything and make a report it will cut both ways. Incident report will count even grenade attacks are they impactful? or a truck bombs in the middle of Lahore blowing the brains out of city leaving 10 feet crater is impactful?

Karachi was den of criminal enterprises, got patronage from MQM and Altaf Hussain, it's a economic capital of Pakistan and was under constant fear because of large scale extortion, now that city is in much better condition and Altaf Hussain's ability to disrupt the city or help Indian assets is gone. Mind you crime plays havoc on economic activities, so Altaf alone was reducing few basis point form Pakistani GDP.

TTP was marching for Lahore and now even Fazllulah is killed. Can't protect him and it was US who killed him not Pakistan.

I have hardly been critical of Modi, merely pointing to facts and situation on ground praising him as my lord is not my habit or job. Ask a Pakistan if you think I am lying or exaggerating, ask him how safe he feels compared to 2011 and around, you'll get an idea.
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I did check the list of terror attacks in India as well. Except J &K, they have reduced a lot during last 5 years for rest of India. I believe Modi and Doval deserve credit for that.

I do have friends from Faisalabad and Lahore. Frankly speaking they are more worried about the power cuts than terrorist attacks :D. It's interesting how quickly people get used to security issues and learn to live with it. Whenever I ask them whether terrorist attacks have reduced, I get a very cold response, as if it doesn't concern them one way or other.
 
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Bali78 said:
I did check the list of terror attacks in India as well. Except J &K, they have reduced a lot during last 5 years for rest of India.
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I have used this same argument before in the same form, the "except" is the keyword that hides the true picture, you can apply that except Punjab and you will get similar results in Pakistan during Modi and Doval.

Doval has said multiple time that the only way to control terrorism is to make it unaffordable for Pakistan, instead except this stand off it has become very affordable for them. They are not scared of a bomb blast in Pakistan even if they kill 50 Indian soldiers in India. They were supposed to blew Pakistan into shreds(as Modi said in an interview That he will make Pakistan understand in the language Pakistan understand) not much have happened.

Whatever hope I had from his 2nd term was shattered yesterday when India made unilateral concession, there is no such tweet from Pakistan regarding airspace, maybe in a day or two. Seems like exchange of sweets between Sushma Swaraj and Qureshi worked and some deal is reached. A sudden jump in intelligence based operations against Terrorist in Kashmir could be because Pakistan gave them up in exchange of de-escalation and third parties pressure to deliver whatever was promised on 27th Feb night. This will not end terrorism in Kashmir, it's tactic for buying time, Pakistan will start terrorism in Kashmir the moment they are comfortable with extra vigour.
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
I have used this same argument before in the same form, the "except" is the keyword that hides the true picture, you can apply that except Punjab and you will get similar results in Pakistan during Modi and Doval.

Doval has said multiple time that the only way to control terrorism is to make it unaffordable for Pakistan, instead except this stand off it has become very affordable for them. They are not scared of a bomb blast in Pakistan even if they kill 50 Indian soldiers in India. They were supposed to blew Pakistan into shreds(as Modi said in an interview That he will make Pakistan understand in the language Pakistan understand) not much have happened.

Whatever hope I had from his 2nd term was shattered yesterday when India made unilateral concession, there is no such tweet from Pakistan regarding airspace, maybe in a day or two. Seems like exchange of sweets between Sushma Swaraj and Qureshi worked and some deal is reached. A sudden jump in intelligence based operations against Terrorist in Kashmir could be because Pakistan gave them up in exchange of de-escalation and third parties pressure to deliver whatever was promised on 27th Feb night. This will not end terrorism in Kashmir, it's tactic for buying time, Pakistan will start terrorism in Kashmir the moment they are comfortable with extra vigour.
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Personally I think It's not over yet..

There s plenty of weapon orders going to be executed in near future..

Forces would be aware of situation s and weapons needed..

Army who haven't placed orders before have benefited max..

Even if the actions are Before next election s, its going to be more dominant against even more failing state.

Let's hope our economy and defence budget performs better..

Let's take time to strengthen even more..
 
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BlackOpsIndia said:
I hope you are right, if you keep giving them chances you are redefining definition of Stupidity.
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Take the day off.
Without randomradio around your pessimism is getting a bit too much to handle.
and also rants without an iota of sanity and circular arguments are making me worried of you missing on your Prozac timings.
.
I have been refraining to reply you just to check your responses, as other members have responded.
I am amazed that let alone debating them your points are just repetitive, banal and so soooo irritatingly reclycled, I wonder Why bother with a new post at all? you can simply quote 5 or 6 odd urls of your posts till kingdom come, and still keep the argument going.
 
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Sathya said:
Personally I think It's not over yet..
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Yep its not over, we are pounding Pak left and Right and conducting super confidential strikes as some Baba on twitter want us to believe.

In actual we are requesting the enemy we are beating red and blue to open its airspace for our FM so that she can avoid pain of some extra hours while flying.

Make 100% sense.

By the way if 5 billion dollar def budget Pakistan can make 50 billion India budget insufficient, we must start accepting 1:10 ratio theory.
 
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Arvind said:
Yep its not over, we are pounding Pak left and Right and conducting super confidential strikes as some Baba on twitter want us to believe.

In actual we are requesting the enemy we are beating red and blue to open its airspace for our FM so that she can avoid pain of some extra hours while flying.

Make 100% sense.

By the way if 5 billion dollar def budget Pakistan can make 50 billion India budget insufficient, we must start excepting 1:10 ratio theory.
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Pakistan's defence budget is more than 10 billion dollars

Pakistan' Biggest Strength is the Will and Ability to Absorb Human Casualties without
Flinching or Backtracking as a Society and Nation

Not only they have These Non State Actors
Who are just Suicide squads but even they
Can easily hide the losses of their Regular
Army and other services

We as a Nation want Military Success with
Minimum Casualties which is not possible

Therefore our Government cannot Go to war
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
Pakistan's defence budget is more than 10 billion dollars

Pakistan' Biggest Strength is the Will and Ability to Absorb Human Casualties without
Flinching or Backtracking as a Society and Nation

Not only they have These Non State Actors
Who are just Suicide squads but even they
Can easily hide the losses of their Regular
Army and other services

We as a Nation want Military Success with
Minimum Casualties

Therefore our Government cannot Go to war
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Just say one word....cowardice.

Why waste so many words?
 
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vstol Jockey said:
I have flown fighters and have also known about Mig-21Bis which has more restrictions in flying than earlier variants of Mig-21. We used to wonder as to how can a pilot fly this aircraft which only had limitations in every area of performance. Sea Harrier also had similar restrictions but only when we were below 120kts of speed and used TVC. In normal flying, se4a harrier was just like anyother aircraft that I had flown. But with nozzeles down, it was very difficult machine.
Dhanoa has flown just this aircraft. he knows it inside out better than the russians and anyone on earth,
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One of the great video on MIG21 feature ...Interview with Jyrki Laukkanen on the MiG-21

 
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Hope the IAF is deriving the right lessons from Feb 27th and not letting hubris drive them high post Gaganshakti & there by taking the nation for a ride as well.
@vstol Jockey ; @randomradio
 
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