Sir, then what was the reason for zero military response from our side when we immediately understood the intent of the Pakistanis?
Last edited:
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
- Thread starter nair
- Start date
- Status
Question here.. What about R-27 and su-30 mki ? What variant and in what numbers do we have R-27 BVR missiles. Are they too at the end of their shelf life ? How reliable are they?
Query... Why do we have our Brigade HQ so close to the LOC. It's like a fat hen, waiting to be culled. After Balakot, are there plans to move the brigade HQ to a farther and also possibly a more fortified location..?
Last edited:
IAF was surprised by what all happened that day. Thye two SU-30MKI were at the end of their endurance and other than dancing to avoid AMRAAMs could do nothing. They could not even fire back as their R-77 missiles were not cleared for launch by weapons computers. The two M2Ks were in an area which was far away from the place of engagement. IAF tracked all these formations and yet did not call for back up. They than saw these various formations group together over Pak Punjab and yet IAF did not call for back up. PAF had probably studied the CAP routine and AWACS routine after Pulwama and knew when these aircraft will be at the end of their endurance. They attacked within that window. The moment we came under pressure, we buckled under it and shot down one of our own even though we had multiple layers of procedures available to prevent one such incident. Even the AWACS was stationed over Punjab and moved to the engagement area later. The biggest surprise for IAF were the JF-17s which probably came from North.
Lastly, once the battle was over, SU-30MKIs told about what happened to R-77s and how they proved to be duds. Do you think we could have counter attacked after that? Someone sensibly decided to hammer them at LOC and that is what we are doing.
Finally, what is the state of our Fighter fleet? We are short of 10 sqns, three sqns each of M2K and Mig-29s are under upgrade so this practically reduces the numbers to below 25. The old warhorse Mig-21Bison is still our frontline fighter. A matter of great shame for our Nation and our politicians for bringing our armed forces to such dismal state.
The best part is the R-77 is going to be replaced by the Astra. 2022 onwards.And the IAF is going to do it at its own sweet time. Which means if we face another Pulwama within that window, it's deja vu all over again.
Those who need to know and make the decisions that will give more strength to separatist movements in Pakistan know what's the ground situation.
What we discuss on the Internet, especially in English, doesn't actually reach the Pakistani awaam. So the regular awaam can be lied to easily anyway. But then even the most ignorant awaam in Pakistan knows about the F-16. And we have already seen the country's morale dip when they lost those P-3s and Erieyes to terrorists.
As for separatists, the information blackout is very much in our favour right now. We attack Pakistan with impunity, and they deny every single attack that ever took place, so we can continue hitting them whenever we want and actually reduce their battle strength on the ground. When PA does not disclose casualties, that means separatists can not only attack Pakistan and whittle them down, but they can also make up stories about having greater victories than what's been achieved, which helps in getting more funds and recruits.
But if PA starts announcing casualties, then separatists will lose their propaganda advantage and we lose our ability to continue hitting Pakistan without repercussions. You see, if the awaam realise what's going on, at first they will lose morale, but then PA propaganda will ensure the awaam continues supporting the PA anyway. It's not like they have a choice where they can wish away the PA and replace it with something else. The PA will then only end up with a bit more pressure to retaliate to any attacks from India. This "breaking the will of the people" concept doesn't work.
Another big advantage with this is fauji families and terrorist families being notified about the death of their sons but no recognition of their sacrifice. This will directly hit the morale of those who are fighting. Did you forget that PA had to decorate soldiers during Kargil War even after claiming they weren't involved? It's not easy to hide death. And the PA is doing us a favour as the IA is increasing the body count without any real repercussions. Once the body count reaches a certain point, their house of cards will tumble.
So have patience, the Pakistanis will themselves reveal information on their own. Our goal is to break the will of the leadership.
In short, we were lacking on understanding the Pak military mindset and had very little innovative thinking from the top brass. As usual the 'foot soldiers' did the talking.
R-77s are that bad compared to AIM-120C5s? We should have expected action from the JF-17s or maybe they too masked their arrival like our Mig-21s?
Why are there no media reports on the LoC events you indicated and also indicated by a few handles?
Were the R-77s not cleared for launch because they were duds... or because the Su-30 mki was at a much lower elevation... Because there were articles stating that Su-30 mkis were at a much lower elevation compared to the F-16s firing BVRAAMS
Last edited:
I think the changeover to I-derbyER is well underway at lightening speed. Just the way we wired M2Ks for LGBs during Kargil, we are now doing it for SU-30MKIs. yeh haalat badlnain chahiyen.
Just like Pakistan, we too have decided to just report-Effective action is being taken for CFV. Kill them and don't talk about it. They too will not talk about. Jungle main mor nacha, kisnay dekha?
Both reasons But the intruding F-16s were at a level lower than even MKIs. And MKIs could not even get a shot at them.
Sir, What about R-27 and su-30 mki ? What variant and in what numbers do we have R-27 BVR missiles. Are they too at the end of their shelf life ? How reliable are they?
If I remember correctly, R-27s have been retired from service.
Great.. So, the fearsome Su-30 mki is missing it's cannines... Hope they get some implants real quick...
Repeating my question here.. Any plans to move the brigade HQ farther from the loc... so that we don't have an easy High value target available for the Pakistanis'...
If people believe that IAF has been sitting quietly after Feb 27 , then they are Foolish
What ever happened helped us immensely to know our weaknesses and understand the Enemy better
The Two Air Forces met each other after 1971
Such conflicts are any day preferable than
Playing DOSSIER Dossier
What ever happened helped us immensely to know our weaknesses and understand the Enemy better
The Two Air Forces met each other after 1971
Such conflicts are any day preferable than
Playing DOSSIER Dossier
Last edited:
Why is our Army able to beat the crap out of the Pak Army in just a few days of Intense shelling
That is because the Army is battle hardened
And knows the Enemies Abilities very well
So IAF should also conduct such Aggression Every year , it is infinitely better than Gaganshakti exercise
That is because the Army is battle hardened
And knows the Enemies Abilities very well
So IAF should also conduct such Aggression Every year , it is infinitely better than Gaganshakti exercise
Even if there is no terror attack , Balakot should become the new normal
Next time when PAF is doing its
Shaheen or Saffron Bandit exercises ,with the Chinese
Just go in and Bomb Sargodha
Let us how They react
In Hindi we say , Kya Ukhaad lega MC
IAF will also Have to put Fear in the enemy' s heart just like our Army has done
Next time when PAF is doing its
Shaheen or Saffron Bandit exercises ,with the Chinese
Just go in and Bomb Sargodha
Let us how They react
In Hindi we say , Kya Ukhaad lega MC
IAF will also Have to put Fear in the enemy' s heart just like our Army has done
We could not get firing solutions on F-16s one thing> We will find an answer to this But more shocking for PAF was that their best weapons failed and could be dodged off so easily by our SU-30MKIs. While our failure is a reason to worry, PAF failure is more shocking for their pilots. Imagine what will happen when MKIs are equipped with I-DerbyER and they face F-16s.
Being Out numbered is not a Crime
It is a Tactical error , The Sukhois were busy evading the Amraams
Two more Sukhois at that point would have
Totally changed the battle
We have to resolve our weaknesses
Instead of Criticizing and Chest Beating and
Closing down this Option of Air attacks
Secondly all this Operational Deployment
And Readiness
This Constant Churning of Radars
These large number of CAPS and
Awacs Sorties
All these have a Financial and Material cost
Let the enemy suffer
AFAIK, the MKIs were not allowed to fire missiles across the LoC, so the F-16s managed to get first shot, and that the ingressing F-16s were too low and too far away for the R-77s to work anyway.
One can speculate that the Mig-21s jumped the F-16s quicker than the MKIs could react after dodging the first volley of AMRAAMs, which prevented the MKIs from retaliating lest they put the Mig-21s in danger with their own missiles.
We bought hundreds of R-27s only recently. We got deliveries of the first batch only in 2013.
Artem delivers first batch of R-27 missiles to Indian Air Force
- Status