India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[Hellfire]

Dear Sir,

Are you Hellfire at the other forum?

The following points have been asked elsewhere (am i allowed to mention the forum and the member?). Can you clarify on the same?

1. SPICE is a strap-down SOW kit. A KIT. Their is no penetrator version of the SPICE. It is simply a SOW kit, compatible with different munitions (mainly 1000lbs and 2000lbs munitions). It is up to the customer to choose whatever munition it desires (compatible with SPICE).
2. Rafael is the OEM of SPICE, not the munition. Who is the OEM of the "penetrator" munition that IAF possesses, and when was it inducted?
3. Why not use just Crystal Maze, if it could have done the same job plus bring down the buildings? Why waste the SPICE "penetrators"?
4. I commend the author (Sameer Joshi) for the analysis involving the actual mathematics, specially overpressure. But it seems that it has been written with the intent to justify IAF's claim, by hook or by crook. Misleading assumptions have been made, and clever 'rounding off' has been done to prove the point.

There are claims and counterclaims from both sides. Are there any specific things that lend greater credence to our version of events, or are these to be understood (or rather inferred) by defence professionals or very knowledgeable and insightful people?

Dear Sir.

Hellfire here.

You have been answered by @vstol Jockey

We have had penetrator versions since 2008 if I recollect correctly. Sameer Joshi knows the physics and the military logic, that is true. But he is also suffering from and promoting few inaccuracies of glaring nature for reasons best known to him, like the claim of no AWACS being on station on 27 Feb 2019 when PAF package came in.

Not only was an A-50 airborne at the time, even our own AEW&C Netra was airborne along western borders. Similarly, some Journalists have claims about why Crystal Maze was or was not fired etc. I am yet to come across a situation wherein the weapons are carried by forces and strike aborted because of bad weather

 

[madrao99]

There's a limit to what can be done short of war.

Good for them. Let them spend more money that they don't have.

And then borrow more and dig themselves deeper down the rabbit hole. FATF is also looming large!! And current reports don't seem well boding!!

 

[madrao99]

And also most stupid. Politics is one thing which muslims can never practice and not live under true democracy.

IMHO, the Zardari arrest is just a opportunistic play to distract the jaahil awam from the new budget where multiple new taxes are expected to be introduced. Remember dimraan's claims ke ham sab churaya hua paisa waapas le aayenge?? Aapne ghabraana nahi hain!!

 

[randomradio]

And then borrow more and dig themselves deeper down the rabbit hole. FATF is also looming large!! And current reports don't seem well boding!!

It's gonna get worse and worse for them.

 

[madrao99]

It's gonna get worse and worse for them.

already happening

 

[randomradio]

already happening

Pakistan's economic growth in FY19 to hit 3.3%, well below target
Pakistan's Finance Ministry expects economic growth in the financial year ending in June to hit 3.3%

That's already worse than what India was back in 2011. And not even high oil prices this time.

Their new budget is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Dear Sir.

Hellfire here.

You have been answered by @vstol Jockey

We have had penetrator versions since 2008 if I recollect correctly. Sameer Joshi knows the physics and the military logic, that is true. But he is also suffering from and promoting few inaccuracies of glaring nature for reasons best known to him, like the claim of no AWACS being on station on 27 Feb 2019 when PAF package came in.

Not only was an A-50 airborne at the time, even our own AEW&C Netra was airborne along western borders.

Hi, thanks for confirming .

I think that you had this discussion with @vstol Jockey and he disagrees with the AWACS being on station as the ground controllers directed the Mig-21s.

Similarly, some Journalists have claims about why Crystal Maze was or was not fired etc. I am yet to come across a situation wherein the weapons are carried by forces and strike aborted because of bad weather

So i take it that this Crystal Maze thing is again a deliberate misinformation being peddled around.

Again did anything serious happen after 27th? Coz then i would think that we will also have some serious casualties. Both you and @vstol Jockey say that something happened. Why is no info coming out?

I think that a lot of PSYOPS are going on. We aam junta are pfft.

 

[vstol Jockey]

I think that you had this discussion with @vstol Jockey and he disagrees with the AWACS being on station as the ground controllers directed the Mig-21s.

Not being in station and not being in air are two different things. The AWACs were further south over Punjab and did not cover the area over Kashmir. They moved to east Ladakh region as the battle started.

So i take it that this Crystal Maze thing is again a deliberate misinformation being peddled around.

My information is that crystal maze could not be fired as the computer did not give release clearance. But they were carried. Even one of the SPICE2000 also could not be fired.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Not being in station and not being in air are two different things. The AWACs were further south over Punjab and did not cover the area over Kashmir. They moved to east Ladakh region as the battle started.

Right, i get it.

My information is that crystal maze could not be fired as the computer did not give release clearance. But they were carried. Even one of the SPICE2000 also could not be fired.

Yes Sir, this was said in the much publicized IAF review of Balakot Strikes, something like OEM should have done the mating of the bombs with the aircraft.

Looking for proper proof of F-16 & Su-30 thingy, too bad it won't come easily.

 

[nair]

Is any theory indicating air to air combat victory for IAF?

On 5th and 6th??? Negative...... Barring the CAP on both sides, There is nothing to believe about an air engagement... @vstol Jockey have been mentioning about some kind of engagement.... He may have more info....

The 2 most important casualties of this engagement for pak is....

1) Huge no of strategic assets lost
2) UAV's dropping like birds.....

 

[Jaymax]

On 5th and 6th??? Negative...... Barring the CAP on both sides, There is nothing to believe about an air engagement... @vstol Jockey have been mentioning about some kind of engagement.... He may have more info....

The 2 most important casualties of this engagement for pak is....

1) Huge no of strategic assets lost
2) UAV's dropping like birds.....

Strategic Assets? Pardon my ignorance but can you drop a hint?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Babaji Taunting the Pakistanis

He Says PM will FLY over BALAKOT

https://twitter.com/x/status/1138465584255889409

 

[Jaymax]

Babaji Taunting the Pakistanis

He Says PM will FLY over BALAKOT

https://twitter.com/x/status/1138465584255889409

Thats a nice way to put a spin on it. PM could have taken a longer route instead of requesting Pak. Air India One does have the legs for a long haul flight.

 

[Sulla84]

Babaji Taunting the Pakistanis

He Says PM will FLY over BALAKOT

https://twitter.com/x/status/1138465584255889409

It's like Heads I win, tails you lose.. When Pakistanis ask for talks it's begging; when Modi asks for overflight, it's a dare... and when you fly from Delhi to Kyrgyzstan, you will obviously fly near KPK, and not Karachi... Baba is trolling himself here.. trying to defend Modi's overflight request..

 

[nair]

Strategic Assets? Pardon my ignorance but can you drop a hint?

Nothing much... ISI consider terrorists to be strategic assets.....

 

[rockstarIN]

On 5th and 6th??? Negative...... Barring the CAP on both sides, There is nothing to believe about an air engagement... @vstol Jockey have been mentioning about some kind of engagement.... He may have more info....

The 2 most important casualties of this engagement for pak is....

1) Huge no of strategic assets lost
2) UAV's dropping like birds.....

Not enough for me..!!

 

[RajibJ]

He has only told one thing so far , that

Pakistan's Nuclear Bluff was Exposed
On 5 - 6 March

Baba talked about Brahmos but certainly not directly. May be its a Brahmos strike on Kuzdar Garrison. Just give Pakistan a feel that we have upper hand specially after heated exchange between India and Pakistan about 3 times more missile strike during WC's release after 27th Feb .Some site carried news report with satellite photo claimed suspicious patch mark around Pak Nuke facility.News report speculated about possible accident.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Some site carried news report with satellite photo claimed suspicious patch mark around Pak Nuke facility.News report speculated about possible accident.

I don't know what those people smoke that they so casually mention Brahmos strike on Nuke facility and the gullible audience that believe anything.

As if we were not already obsessed with Brahmos that Baba and other Intel Chowkidars have taken upon them to dumb down every bit of sensibility, reasoning, thinking ability left in us. We are close to be grouped with those jiahdis for whom Nasr and Jf17 are solution to everything.

I don't know what happened on 5th-6th March if anything happened at all but you can be hundred percent sure we didn't strike their nuclear facility.

Using Brahmos is significant escalation, very high up the escalation ladder, and it won't be used unless war starts formally and it will be answered with similar cruise missile attack on us.

Nuke facility will be targeted only and only when there is credible intelligence of upcoming nuclear attack on us. Attacking a nuclear site will require too much political will to absorb international pressure and for all what we now know it's too much to ask considering night of 27th where we can't handle it for a mere conventional attack, when you were justified to attack and whole nation was with government.

There could be some local action, IA obliterated some area, lighten up few jihadis but it's different from Brahmos. Baba maybe doing it for Pakistani common man, to rattle them but that doesn't mean we fall for it harder than those jihadis.

 

[panzerdad]

Baba talked about Brahmos but certainly not directly. May be its a Brahmos strike on Kuzdar Garrison. Just give Pakistan a feel that we have upper hand specially after heated exchange between India and Pakistan about 3 times more missile strike during WC's release after 27th Feb .Some site carried news report with satellite photo claimed suspicious patch mark around Pak Nuke facility.News report speculated about possible accident.

Brahmos can be intercepted
a cruise missile strike will cause war

Baba is an idiot, no nuke exposure has happened, we arent buying s400s to defend against pigeons you know
Put one military question to baba, he'll ignore you has 0 knowledge, he roams forums and copy pastes stuff
wont be surprised if hes a failed def aspirant spinning lala to get by his broken self respect

 

[panzerdad]

I don't know what those people smoke that they so casually mention Brahmos strike on Nuke facility and the gullible audience that believe anything.

As if we were not already obsessed with Brahmos that Baba and other Intel Chowkidars have taken upon them to dumb down every bit of sensibility, reasoning, thinking ability left in us. We are close to be grouped with those jiahdis for whom Nasr and Jf17 are solution to everything.

I don't know what happened on 5th-6th March if anything happened at all but you can be hundred percent sure we didn't strike their nuclear facility.

Using Brahmos is significant escalation, very high up the escalation ladder, and it won't be used unless war starts formally and it will be answered with similar cruise missile attack on us.

Nuke facility will be targeted only and only when there is credible intelligence of upcoming nuclear attack on us. Attacking a nuclear site will require too much political will to absorb international pressure and for all what we now know it's too much to ask considering night of 27th where we can't handle it for a mere conventional attack, when you were justified to attack and whole nation was with government.

There could be some local action, IA obliterated some area, lighten up few jihadis but it's different from Brahmos. Baba maybe doing it for Pakistani common man, to rattle them but that doesn't mean we fall for it harder than those jihadis.

You i love, for your sensibility
Baba is a pain in the *censored*, failed def aspirant whos just losing the plot
the man cannot answer ONE technical question yet claims hes intel
what is sickening is indians are falling for this jumla