Status
Not open for further replies.
@vstol Jockey I'm speculating that some source (maybe the US?) is going to release information on the Dogfight. Or else, why will PAF suddenly give out a detalied PR move on this at this time?

a) They're definitely going to confirm that F 16 were there (else why will PAF accept)
b) They will definitely confirm AMRAAMs were used (PAF confirms)
c) They'll probably say that an F 16 B was downed ( because PAF has confirmed F 16 B was there and has only put out the name of one pilot- a weird thing to do)

USA won't reveal for 2 reasons,

When Lara selingman reported no loss in count, Pentagon just said " Not aware "

Had they they said there is loss, it would have been huge PR for Modi s election campaign. - releasing now will indicate they denied the PR advantage.

Second they are trying to sell the F16 to India.
 
Tanker s role is refuelling fighters..

It is flying South..

But no hit.

Something in the airspace over sea?

Tankers role is Refueling, full stop.
Its not flying south, its only turned on its transponder near some civilian traffic as mandated by
the controller to relay info to the ATC/TCAS :)
Lets not over speculate my friend.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rosicky7 and Sathya
Well since there is no official claim for the "penetrator" version, and given that you don't indulge in speculation, I'd say we drop the penetrator theory, specially when it arose after nearly a week of the strikes when the first satellite imagery came out.

The point I made is, since we bought only 100, it's likely that it's only on one type of warhead. And we know for sure that the Spice kits have been mounted on penetrators. Rather than speculation, you can actually give it the benefit of the doubt.

Glad that you mentioned the Popeye/Crystal Maze. There is also some speculation that they were to be used to "provide video and bring down the buildings". I fail to comprehend how SPICE (which shares the TV/IIR seeker of Popeye), could not deliver the same results. IAF didn't have enough time to maintain LoS with whatever SOWs it could launch, so there was no possibility of retaining data-link for video or man-in-the-loop guidance to begin with. Secondly, the warhead is reportedly 150lbs (80kg), the same as in the alleged "penetrators".

I don't know why Popeye wasn't used. It was likely to be used for BDA for a particular set of targets. Or it's possible it was used on other targets in POJK, we simply don't know about the Popeyes' role in the strikes.

Rightly said.
As far as I know, the impact angle has to be specified while generating the mission profile. I've seen videos of it hitting targets at angles ranging from 30 to 90 degrees. Here's a nice video from Rafael:

The smaller angles are for very specific targets like hangar doors or the like. But against HQs, the angles are mostly higher. So it's unlikely for Spice to miss so completely, especially when our attack wasn't challenged. Also, penetrators cannot make such craters. Whereas a 1000Kg HE would have made a very large crater and most of the trees would have blown away.
 
28th is two days away. We want the airspace ban to be extended. It serves our purpose.


Seems like closure of this thread is never going to happen :p


Tankers role is Refueling, full stop.
Its not flying south, its only turned on its transponder near some civilian traffic as mandated by
the controller to relay info to the ATC/TCAS :)
Lets not over speculate my friend.

Sorry to ask a noob question, tanker won't be carrying fuel to the base right?

( I mean severe shortage of fuel at base)
 
Bomb craters correlating with the damage caused by 2000lbs GP bombs appeared on the night of 26th February, 150-200m off the alleged JeM camp. On-ground reporters, witnesses, low-res infrared satellite imagery from PlanetLabs and high-res optical satellite imagery from ESI have correlated and confirmed this fact.

A 1000Kg GP would make a crater 200-300m in diameter and about 5 meters or more deep. It would be like the hole you need to dig before constructing a large apartment building.

There was no need of employing penetration munitions, given all structures at the target site were civilian and non-hardened. A simple delayed impact fuze on a general purpose bomb would have achieved the same result.

Valuable combat testing.

There are no points of ingress visible in the 50cm resolution satellite imagery by ESI on any of the structures present at the site. So far a set of collinear 3x rectangular black pixels have been identified on a 20x20m structure's eastern roof joint, which actually are image artifacts.

Image artifacts or real. Or maybe a brand new roof replaced overnight.
 
Seems like closure of this thread is never going to happen :p




Sorry to ask a noob question, tanker won't be carrying fuel to the base right?

( I mean severe shortage of fuel at base)

No question is silly :)
Fuel supply as the base is replenished through other means, these tankers stick to aerial roles.
 
Question-

In a recent interview pilots who conducted the strike said they hit the targets. In absence of video feed what other options pilot have to confirm the hit for stand off weapons. Distance was around 70km visual confirmation is not posible were they briefed later at base or some others sensors keep track of weapon released and it's impact point.

@panzerdad @vstol Jockey @Falcon @The Deterrent and anyone else who knows more about it.

Satellites and recce aircraft, including fighter jets and drones with SAR capabilities.
 
I need to correct you here. The aircraft was F-16B which was taken from Jordan and upgraded to F-16D standards in MLU. Please read about it. So the F-16B is correct designation for the aircraft type.

If it was modernised to Pakistani standards, then it would be F-16BM.
 
In all records, they are called F-16B only.

Many places have referred to the Block 20 MLU with the AM/BM designations though.

India Shows Proof U.S. Made F-16s And AIM-120 Missiles Were Used By Pakistan In Aerial Brawl
Pakistan has a fleet of around 76 F-16, which are a mix of A/B Air Defense Fighter (ADF), AM/BM Mid-Life Update (MLU), and Block 52 C/D models.

Billions to Upgrade and Up-arm Pakistans F-16s
The deal leaves the Royal Jordanian Air Force with 43-46 front-line F-16AM/BM MLU Block 20 fighters, and 15-18 F-16A/B Block 15 ADFs, of 79 purchased.

Anyway, it's not very important for the discussion iself.
 
U mean India doesn't care about it, will go ahead and buy..

Or

Anyways India is not going to buy. No problem.

My personal opinion is India won't go for the F-16. It lacks two engines and is overall not as capable as the Rafale. So it won't even get shortlisted for it to be considered. But if MWF fails compeletely and the IAF is forced to go in for an F-16 vs Gripen competition, then it's back in the reckoning. It will still have to win on its own merit.

But any admission by the US that its F-16 was killed by a Mig-21 even though the Mig-21 was practically surrounded by F-16s, this will destroy its reputation among other customers who are out to buy the aircraft.

Point being, whether the US admits to the loss or not, it will not have any bearing on F-16's selection in India since our methods of selection are good enough to filter out the bad apples, unlike most air forces.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.