Took me advance search, thankfully I marked the tweet with special tags here it is-
Thanks a lot. It would have been interesting if more photos were available, so that we could identify what type of SOW hit which location, and corroborate Pakistani claims.
Question-
In a recent interview pilots who conducted the strike said they hit the targets. In absence of video feed what other options pilot have to confirm the hit for stand off weapons. Distance was around 70km visual confirmation is not posible were they briefed later at base or some others sensors keep track of weapon released and it's impact point.
@panzerdad @vstol Jockey @Falcon @The Deterrent and anyone else who knows more about it.
Sir, in case of employment of TV-guided SOWs like SPICE/Popeye/AGM-130/H-4 in contested airspace, the best way of doing BDA is via the video feed of the seeker recieved on a secure data-link by an aircraft. In case that is not available (e.g. in autonomous SPICE), a flypast from a standoff distance using a long-range recce pod or SAR can be done. In case that is not possible, the satellite imagery can always be the ultimate solution. Other than that, HUMINT on the ground can gather evidence for verification.
In this particular case, the IAF pilots could not have known if their bombs hit the target or not. However their confidence comes from the belief in the weapon system, which has been thoroughly tested by them. As theorized, the weapon system worked perfectly fine, its the mission planning which is to be blamed.
As if Americans wouldn't know your use of F16s?try better than PAF schooling PA on T/Cs as if PA doesn't know that , DGISPR had to change his statement when India showed AMRAAM debris and they knew that they have been caught lying.
Sir, frankly speaking the Americans don't give a damn unless there are Chinese boots in the vicinity of a B52 or PAF breaks the tamper seals of a component. Yes, if IAF hadn't displayed AMRAAM debris, PA (DG ISPR) would have stuck to the JF-17 version. As I said before, it would have been better if a PAF official disseminated the information.
This is probably how Pakistan is explaining that its F-16 fighter jet inventory is intact
Read this article u will understand how
PAF inducts first batch of F-16 fighter jets from Jordan - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
PAF acquires F-16s from Jordan
Pakistani sources Dawn quoted from thenews and the news says manufacturing company "CONFIRMED" 9As and 1 Bs
US-Pakistan F-16 Deal Is Dead: Islamabad Mulling Jordan F-16 Fighter Jets Instead
The Diplomat talks about 14 F16s
Try better next time
While reason for lying 5 years ago might be different but PAF used it to hide current loss smartly
@vstol Jockey @panzerdad
Sir, media reports are known to be inaccurate. Please read the information in the following database:
F-16 Air Forces - Pakistan
@The Deterrent this also has another implication. F 16 did all the fighting. JF 17 was a lemon (like we said it was).... what will happen to WINDY BHAI
Sir, the "lemons" launched 4x Mk-83 REK SOWs at targets within Indian Army compounds. The same type of "lemons" kept a pair of Mirage-2000Is in check, north of the conflict zone and provided fighter escort to the strike aircrafts.
As a defence enthusiast, I would recommend not to think in a binary manner.
The point I made is, since we bought only 100, it's likely that it's only on one type of warhead. And we know for sure that the Spice kits have been mounted on penetrators. Rather than speculation, you can actually give it the benefit of the doubt.
Sir, I would tell you that you can't have it both ways, but you are entitled to your opinion.
I don't know why Popeye wasn't used. It was likely to be used for BDA for a particular set of targets. Or it's possible it was used on other targets in POJK, we simply don't know about the Popeyes' role in the strikes.
As I described before, if Popeye could have provided BDA, so could SPICE...based on the fact that they share similar TV-guidance (manual) and data-link. This is a rather ridiculous claim.
The smaller angles are for very specific targets like hangar doors or the like. But against HQs, the angles are mostly higher. So it's unlikely for Spice to miss so completely, especially when our attack wasn't challenged.
Agreed with the impact angles.
A 1000Kg GP would make a crater 200-300m in diameter and about 5 meters or more deep. It would be like the hole you need to dig before constructing a large apartment building.
May I see a reference for the 200-300m crater diameter caused by a 2000lbs General Purpose Bomb?
Also, penetrators cannot make such craters. Whereas a 1000Kg HE would have made a very large crater and most of the trees would have blown away.
Valuable combat testing.
Image artifacts or real. Or maybe a brand new roof replaced overnight.
Regarding "penetrators", "valuable combat testing" and "roof replacement", I'm afraid that by now so many of Indian claims are based on conjecture that I'm forced to let you be entitled to your opinion. I have already summarized my arguments for the missed IAF strike at Balakot, I have nothing more to add:
@randomradio @Guynextdoor @_Anonymous_ @BlackOpsIndia @Nilgiri @panzerdad
Since we're going in circles, I should summarize my points on why I believe IAF missed its intended target at Balakot:
- Bomb craters correlating with the damage caused by 2000lbs GP bombs appeared on the night of 26th February, 150-200m off the alleged JeM camp. On-ground reporters, witnesses, low-res infrared satellite imagery from PlanetLabs and high-res optical satellite imagery from ESI have correlated and confirmed this fact.
- Apart from these craters, there is no observable damage present at the alleged JeM camp correlating with 2000lbs GP bombs. Also neither people/vehicles are visible for moving bodies, nor any repair efforts.
- There is no evidence of 2000lbs penetration munitions being in service with the IAF.
- There was no need of employing penetration munitions, given all structures at the target site were civilian and non-hardened. A simple delayed impact fuze on a general purpose bomb would have achieved the same result.
- There are no points of ingress visible in the 50cm resolution satellite imagery by ESI on any of the structures present at the site. So far a set of collinear 3x rectangular black pixels have been identified on a 20x20m structure's eastern roof joint, which actually are image artifacts.
- The math of overpressure regarding the alleged penetrators, originating from inside 3.5m deep silos, does not add up. A shockwave with an overpressure large enough to kill dozens of people on different floors and rooms, is enough to collapse the foundations of the said structure. On the contrary, a shockwave with an overpressure not large enough to collapse walls would also not cause any damage to mobile phones.
- Even if 6000lbs of the alleged penetrative ordinance was dropped on the eastern quadrant of the said structure, it would have blown the eastern part of the structure to smithereens due to employment of at least 500lbs of combined explosives.
- The fact that the bomb craters (having similar miss distances) can be mapped back to identical elevation error, points to the possibility that a systematic targeting error was made during mission planning. The SPICE-2000 SOWs functioned as programmed.
- Apart from more range and lack of GPS, Crystal Maze (aka Popeye) has the similar payload and data-linked TV/IIR guidance as SPICE, which wouldn't have provided any additional advantage. On top of that it is a rocket-powered SOW, so it would probably have fared better than SPICE in adverse weather conditions.
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
