India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[vstol Jockey]

I gave you news links. Does it ever occur to you that Pakistanis are the only ones claiming Indians are delusional? We pretty much do everything we want. You pretty much can't do anything.

Take the current situation- you know Kashmir is now off the table for good right? Nothing that you do- diplomacy, terrorism or pandering will ever change anything.

You are Babaji, certified by me, just like your lord Khujliwal who has the ability to certify people for honesty, I call upon you to pronounce and announce Imran Khan as the next Prophet of Islam. It will make the job of IA easy.

 

[Arsalan123]

Good one...... Next time Basit will be banned straight

Come on man,I said nothing annoying.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

Factually incorrect. Mere conjecture here.



Do elaborate, as I seriously disagree.



Well, I do not agree as in the heavily jammed environment with LOJ capability, what they essentially did was follow the dictum 'I hope to get lucky yet not allow other to get lucky'

That is how militaries operate.




Where did you pull 24 out from?

1- So are you suggesting that all of our missiles under strategic force command lays dormant. I'm not saying that the deployed missiles are nuclear tipped or even if they are not deployed they must be in state of ready to deploy within minutes. As I'm talking about Bramhos here I think my conjecture of ability of hititng strategic locations of Pakistan within minutes after conflict starts is close to reality.
2- I am sure you are watching the developments in Afghanistan and Middle east closely. And when we put great power tussle of US and China into equation then it becomes evident that USA would certainly want us to control POK or even dismember Pakistan to close all routes of middle East for China. Destruction of Iran will be last nail in the coffin. These incidents coupled with US trade sanctions will effectively contain Chinese rise which the western world is wary of.
3- I understand this point of yours but what I was saying that we should not give more credit to few AMRAAM launches than it deserves.
4- Ummm according to my knowledge 24 jets of PAF were airborne at that time. If this figure is wrong then please tell me the real figure.

 

[Milspec]

Please tell me one gun which outranges our guns and one MBRL which outranges ours in the arsenal of PA. Just anyone.

 

[Jaymax]

Come on man,I said nothing annoying.

Dont worry excellency. You have diplomatic immunity.

 

[Arsalan123]

Actually no.

Not taking an action is also - taking an action.

Let me just rewind to the Second Gulf War. Saddam's Heavy Republican Guards Divisions were hardly mauled by USAF. Not because of lack of attempts by US and Allies, but because they simply were better equipped than the rest of Iraqi Army and were better prepared to fight. As the US troops moved into Iraq, they were on lookout for these troops. The ones who could fight them and cause serious damage. In fact, we all were expecting the Iraqi Republican Guards to mount a strong defense.

Instead, what did we see? US Army & Marines could not find them anywhere! And Iraq fell easily. What happened?

It later emerged that the US had managed to bribe a couple of Generals, who convinced the powers that be that instead of a pitched battle, a guerrilla warfare was more apt, basing their logic on overwhelming capability of US (true). The result - a force trained to fight as a formation, with excellent skills and more than fair equipment, got dispersed leading to a situation wherein the force could not be concentrated in a meaningful way to fight the US. Soon, the troops who fought, either deserted or simply vanished if not killed. The disbandment of the Iraqi Army at the 'end' of war demobilized thousands of battle hardened and well trained troops who fell into a cycle of sectarian violence. The nation was torn apart.

Now, coming back to our matter at hand. What are we seeing? A Pakistani PM who threatens a Nuclear War, declares they won't fire the first bullet (will not start a war) or use Nuclear Weapon first, only to be rebutted by the Government for the latter the very next day.

You have Generals who are on twitter, an army which is posting videos of sloganeering, all this when the whole national narrative is based on 'Kashmir banega Pakistan' and 'nuclear weapons' . An army, which is slowly being ridiculed for inaction. In short, you have an army that is hesitating to fight, hesitating to stand by what it has for 7 decades claimed is its raison d'etre.

Let me add a further twist. The same army, in its infinite wisdom, is now planning to execute a strategy which is a mix of both 1947-48 and 1965!

Study your own side. Dispassionately. You will see what is happening.

It is not as complicated as it seems or as uncomplicated as it sounds.

My new slogan

"Yeh jo dehashatgardi hai, iske peeche vardii hai. Aur Pakistani vardii har baar bikti hai"

No action doesn't mean weak army.there are parameters.you know everything.we will take action when the time is right.why you stationed 9 lakh soldiers if you aren't worried about Kashmir? Agar vardi bikti he to 9 lakh soldiers Kashmir me kyun hn,it sums up everything.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

First of all,China is not your rival, it's enemy.i thought that China has forget about war but doklam showed us that any settlement is simply not possible.china is old friend of pakistan and despite pathetic pakistani economy,they are standing with pakistan.just think it for a second! Do you really believe that China is your rival and it can ditch pakistan for India? I think for China,interest is important than money.china is interested in pakistani gwadar and not in indian ports.why? Same trust issue.there is no such deal.remember China still calls Andhra Pradesh and ladakh it's part which is dispute.also Pakistani military is much closer to Chinese military and we regularly train with each other.china is not a traitor and I am sure about that.

1- No third party can define the bilateral relationship b/w Us and China. If we are saying they are rivals not enemies then it is the case.
2- In Doklam we were bound with the security agreement with Bhutan. And did you pay heed to the fact that despite the 75 days standoff and all the rhetorics not a single round was fired? This itself shows China doesn't want war with us.
3- China can ditch anyone for money. And all your delusion about China standing with you will break when you will learn the harsh reality. Just start the war see for yourself.
4- China was, is and always will be interested in Indian ports due to their short distance from China plus relatively far better security environment vis-a-vis Pakistani ports. They didn't get it because we didn't allowed them.
5- " China is not a traitor ".
Man this is international diplomacy not a daily soap okay. Here interests reign supreme and for Chinese the first priority are this which could turn into some hard cash. That only we could provide through our increasing trade not you. They will choose us anytime against you, We are just opposing them due to our Principals. As soon as we regain control of POK you will see an ICEC instead of CPEC

 

[vstol Jockey]

Come on man,I said nothing annoying.

Buddy, Imran is the best find of PA to run Pakistan and he has every strait in him to take Pakistan to greater heights. Your Ghazi army needs to listen to him and announce Gazwa-e-Hind. He even knows how chickens and eggs and donkies can change Pakistan. After Prophet, first time you have a prophet of Islam born in Pakistan. Please listen to him and declare war on kafirs.
800 hundred years of muslim rule over India is fit only for Punjab which is your biggest state with over 65% population. The first time Muslim invaders came thru Afghanistan and Punjab was in 11th century. They converted Punjabis to islam and you have stayed as converts since then. Delhi came under muslim rule after that in 13th century. Khilji came to India as a looter and died and his kingdom of Delhi and Punjab was taken over by Lodhis who were defeated in every war by Rajput confedracy under Maharana Sangha. Baber came in 1526 to loot and plunder India and after his run down with Rajputs in Battle of Khanwa, he retreated back to Afghanistan. His son Humayun was chased out of India by a Hindu convert Called Sher shah Suri. Rao Hemu chased him away and finally we had second battle of Panipat in 1556. Akbar was not able to expand beyond burhananpur. His son jehangir went till Hyderabad. Shahjehan held on to the territories and Aurangzeb lost them all while intruding as far as Travancore in south India. During the time of Aurangzeb, largest part of India was under rebellion and under Hindu rule including the territory of Mathura and Agra due to Jaat rebellion fuelled by my forefathers.
if we take Babers conquest as the start poiint, we have just about 250 years as Mongol/Muslim rule in India. In 1720, the Mongols in India were protected by Marathas and looted and defeated by Jaats of North India from 1680 onwards. Even Aurangzeb had to do a peace treaty with Mewar to let his forces go thru Mewar to Deccan as Jaats of Delhi and South Haryana had blocked their path by looting and "Dhaadh Yudh".
I fail to understand from where this statement of 800 years of muslim rule has come to us.
Islam went across to Europe within 57 years of its establishment and converted everyone to Islam. How and Why we Hindus are still alive and not converted to Islam if we were ruled by Islam for 800 years? Persians converted to islam within one year.
@vsdoc, need your inpurts.

 

[vstol Jockey]

I have not been able to understand what you want to say. Please be clear with your comments on what you post as diagrams. I still maintain my statement reagrding range versus strike power.

 

[Arsalan123]

If you remember my earlier post, I had very clearly stated that this euphoria and this chest beating by PA will go against them as the people will now ask them to do something. It has already been demonstrated by the statements of some Moulanas and Pashtoon leaders. The more they hipe anti-India narrative, more will be the pressure on the so called self professed Ghazi army to act. They are being ridiculed for their own acts and their inability to do something. Every Pakistani knows what awaits them at the border. And they have no stomach for it. They now want PA to do the job for which they had claimed themselves to be savior of Islam and Pakistan and ESPECIALLY Kashmir. They want to see nukes being rained on India. They want India destroyed thru their Ghazi army which has no stomach for a fight. They want Gazwa-e-hind and flag of Pakistan on Red fort of India. People like @Arsalan123 who are keyboard warriors and can't even hold a khanda in their hand are fighting India.
@ Arsalan123, I and my son son can even today wield a Khanda for over three hours non stop. This is how we train our children as Brahmins.

Vstol what do you want? And what is khanda? I am not a keyboard warrior.i care about my country and emotions are genuine.i have no idea why you are dragging me in this discussion.

 

[Arsalan123]

Please tell me one gun which outranges our guns and one MBRL which outranges ours in the arsenal of PA. Just anyone.

You have superior weapons but weapons alone can't win you wars and you know it.ehen war comes,we will fight.

 

[Milspec]

I have not been able to understand what you want to say. Please be clear with your comments on what you post as diagrams. I still maintain my statement reagrding range versus strike power.

Just reiteration your range comment, Most of the Indian legacy Arty in 155, 130 and 105 varieties either matches or outranges Pakistani Arty.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

No action doesn't mean weak army.there are parameters.you know everything.we will take action when the time is right.why you stationed 9 lakh soldiers if you aren't worried about Kashmir? Agar vardi bikti he to 9 lakh soldiers Kashmir me kyun hn,it sums up everything.

Who the hell has given you this figure of 900,000 troops? Man we have 1.2 million troops in total and if we are stationing 900,000 of them in Kashmir alone as you are suggesting then that means we have left all of o it other borders shared with China and Pakistan in other sectors open or thinly defended. Please apply some logic before speaking.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I have not been able to understand what you want to say. Please be clear with your comments on what you post as diagrams. I still maintain my statement reagrding range versus strike power.

Range apart, in terms of artillery they have better numbers. It'd take us close to a decade to induct all those heavy artillery we've ordered / are ordering to take an unassailable lead over Pakistan.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

You have superior weapons but weapons alone can't win you wars and you know it.ehen war comes,we will fight.

Yeah you need strong economy and good infrastructure and cordial diplomatic relations and firm leadership and professional generals ( not who do buissness and loot the public money for making their personal fortunes ) and brave soldiers ( who never surrender in numbers of thousands ) and excellent Surveillance capabilities and..........

 

[_Anonymous_]

Vstol what do you want? And what is khanda? I am not a keyboard warrior.i care about my country and emotions are genuine.i have no idea why you are dragging me in this discussion.

Khanda is a straight sword & talwar / shamsheer is a curved sword. Look up wiki.

 

[Arsalan123]

Buddy, Imran is the best find of PA to run Pakistan and he has every strait in him to take Pakistan to greater heights. Your Ghazi army needs to listen to him and announce Gazwa-e-Hind. He even knows how chickens and eggs and donkies can change Pakistan. After Prophet, first time you have a prophet of Islam born in Pakistan. Please listen to him and declare war on kafirs.
800 hundred years of muslim rule over India is fit only for Punjab which is your biggest state with over 65% population. The first time Muslim invaders came thru Afghanistan and Punjab was in 11th century. They converted Punjabis to islam and you have stayed as converts since then. Delhi came under muslim rule after that in 13th century. Khilji came to India as a looter and died and his kingdom of Delhi and Punjab was taken over by Lodhis who were defeated in every war by Rajput confedracy under Maharana Sangha. Baber came in 1526 to loot and plunder India and after his run down with Rajputs in Battle of Khanwa, he retreated back to Afghanistan. His son Humayun was chased out of India by a Hindu convert Called Sher shah Suri. Rao Hemu chased him away and finally we had second battle of Panipat in 1556. Akbar was not able to expand beyond burhananpur. His son jehangir went till Hyderabad. Shahjehan held on to the territories and Aurangzeb lost them all while intruding as far as Travancore in south India. During the time of Aurangzeb, largest part of India was under rebellion and under Hindu rule including the territory of Mathura and Agra due to Jaat rebellion fuelled by my forefathers.
if we take Babers conquest as the start poiint, we have just about 250 years as Mongol/Muslim rule in India. In 1720, the Mongols in India were protected by Marathas and looted and defeated by Jaats of North India from 1680 onwards. Even Aurangzeb had to do a peace treaty with Mewar to let his forces go thru Mewar to Deccan as Jaats of Delhi and South Haryana had blocked their path by looting and "Dhaadh Yudh".
I fail to understand from where this statement of 800 years of muslim rule has come to us.
Islam went across to Europe within 57 years of its establishment and converted everyone to Islam. How and Why we Hindus are still alive and not converted to Islam if we were ruled by Islam for 800 years? Persians converted to islam within one year.
@vsdoc, need your inpurts.

Islam came in this region not in 1100 but during rahidun caliphate.we and our generations have no idea about past and why you compare me with Mughal? You think I am low caste Hindu converted to Islam.india has been attacked several times by muslims.this rivalry was present even in past.i have ottoman blood in my veins and not Mughal blood.i don't care for how long Mughal ruled? You and you son is brahmin.that is good for you.why you are telling me about your religion? Everyone deserves to select religion of its own choice.we have also atheists.you are reminding me that Muslims are beaten in India but you can see that there are many who attacked india.i don't know why they targeted only India.

 

[Milspec]

You have superior weapons but weapons alone can't win you wars and you know it.ehen war comes,we will fight.

That actually is an even bigger issue with your establishment.

Your Military highest priority in contrary to what you believe is Self Preservation.
As soon as self-preservation kicks in, it will not hesitate to do the unthinkable, whether it's selling out it's own assets, Military coups, or even unilateral surrenders to it's enemy. It will even sacrifice it's own cadres for some alms as we saw in Salala incident. So your military for the most of the time doesn't fight against India to protect Pakistani interests, it fights against India, to ensure it maintains it's a stranglehold on the coffers of State of Pakistan, and if anything a defeat against India on the battlefield only makes its control over Pakistan stronger as seen in 65, 71, 99 etc.

So no matter what happens on the battlefield, the Pakistani Army always wins, and the ultimate example of that was Kargil; Pakistan lost but Musharraf won.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Vstol what do you want? And what is khanda? I am not a keyboard warrior.i care about my country and emotions are genuine.i have no idea why you are dragging me in this discussion.

If you do not know what is Khanda, you are not a Punjabi.

 

[Milspec]

Range apart, in terms of artillery they have better numbers. It'd take us close to a decade to induct all those heavy artillery we've ordered / are ordering to take an unassailable lead over Pakistan.

It is absolutely true that Pakistan has better equipped arty than India.