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Before Balakot, the prevailing consensus on this forum was - IAF could achieve air superiority over PAF very quickly. What some members did not appreciate was it was in context of a shooting war and not in limited actions where the mandate is to keep things from going wild. 27 Feb was a rude jolt for them. They were half expecting all 24 PAF planes to be shot down .They just see PAF snuck a cheap shot in and want revenge.

I am glad Abhinandan got the F-16. But I would have been happier if he had turned back and landed that day without a kill and let the govt. press Pakistan as per the original plan.

GOI is the only party here with the full information. They processed it and deemed it unsuitable to launch a full war in Feb. We have to live with it.
And contrary to the the wild fantasies here, 370 was not nixed in response to Feb but is on a totally different thread titled - Modi has given up on Pakistan.

What happened was that we Realized that
In Case of the Air Force , the Limited War will NOT give Satisfactory Results

If The Theatre of Action is J and K Alone
PAF can again Muster up a 50 plane package

So Either we put more Resources in J and K theatre or Start opening more fronts immediately
 
My Dear Resident Military Expert.

No, no one in IAF was there who was not expecting a strike with use of BVRAAMs. That is why aircrafts had jammers and A-50 was on sector jamming mission. Mann kiya tha is liye le gaye was not the reason to carry around the jammers.

Please exercise those grey cells at times.

Regards
An Exasperated Me.

what is the probability that IAF did fire BVRAAM but PAF jammed it?
 
What happened was that we Realized that
In Case of the Air Force , the Limited War will NOT give Satisfactory Results

If The Theatre of Action is J and K Alone
PAF can again Muster up a 50 plane package

So Either we put more Resources in J and K theatre or Start opening more fronts immediately

To what end? We bombed Balakot as a punishment for Pulwama. That was our objective. We met it. They fooled around and lost an F-16. GoI decided a retaliatory strike was not the right choice right now. Deal with it. You could rage on about it but I honestly doubt M/S Modi & Associates will bother.

Why do you propose we open more fronts? Because someone in Pakistan came on TV and said - Endia pe bum maro? Nothing will please me more than the undoing of Pakistan but it wont happen any time soon.

India will only go to war when there is a legit reason large enough to shake us out of our slumber AND we have the capability.

Now with the forces on a runaway shopping spree, capability is being just restored and not built up. But now our neighbors will not give us a reason.
 
Because emotions have zero value in military actions. Hence the rather long post was exactly a rant. And I agreed.



Death is neither glorious son, nor graceful. Get it into your head. It is the humiliation that every living being has to face at the end of his/her life, the ultimate sacrilege upon the person of those who were alive recently. Death on a battlefield, home or away, is undignified. And you sign on to it, knowing the price that you maybe expected to pay. Every soldier accepts it or thinks he/she has accepted it (these are the ones who break and run in firefight). Just too bad if the realities do not correlate with your romantic notions of dying on the battlefield.

Am not here to give you the sugar coated lying glorification of 'sacrifice'. Am here to tell you as things stand. If you can take it, good for you, if not, does not really affect me :)




Nonsensical to the non-discerning mind only. Grow up and open up that screwed up brain of yours.
sigh.....look I won't even bother quoting individual lines. The whole discussion was about civilian perspective about the way whole fiasco was handled & what was worth of Indian lives that were wasted away. I couldn't give less of a shit about your romanticization of death and all that you are on about. Every soldier that signs up for the job also knows that the nation he is guarding, will not let his death go in vain. If you think that losing 40+ lives was not worth going to war then its just sad. I'm sure that the soldiers that died would agree with people here saying that just because the amount of deaths didn't cross the threshold, war is a no go. How morbid is that? Imagine saying to a woman - we are sorry to give you the news about the death of your husband and brother, but we won't be going for a war. Had your son died too, the threshold would have been crossed and we would have initiated the war. My *censored*ing God!!!

If personally attacking me somehow makes you feel superior, then, well its just sad.
Again, don't bother replying if you are going on another philosophical rant. If you have anything substantial to discuss, point it out.


Edit-
PS- let me quote just one line-
Am not here to give you the sugar coated lying glorification of 'sacrifice'. Am here to tell you as things stand. If you can take it, good for you, if not, does not really affect me :)
You don't even see the irony here, do you? Your discussion was mainly about the semantics about the balakot which I didn't even bother going into. It keeps changing everyday. Since, nothing came from official sources, I take everything posted here with a great ton of salt. I avoid commenting on that mess. YOU came uninvited to the discussion I was having with the other guy, I didn't even ask you anything. And even after all this nonsense you wrote, nothing was of relevance to my discussion.
 
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To what end? We bombed Balakot as a punishment for Pulwama. That was our objective. We met it. They fooled around and lost an F-16. GoI decided a retaliatory strike was not the right choice right now. Deal with it. You could rage on about it but I honestly doubt M/S Modi & Associates will bother.

Why do you propose we open more fronts? Because someone in Pakistan came on TV and said - Endia pe bum maro? Nothing will please me more than the undoing of Pakistan but it wont happen any time soon.

India will only go to war when there is a legit reason large enough to shake us out of our slumber AND we have the capability.

Now with the forces on a runaway shopping spree, capability is being just restored and not built up. But now our neighbors will not give us a reason.

Right now we have No Reason to Expand
The Conflict

However Pakistan is Finding even the Localised LOC conflict as very difficult

RIGHT NOW BAJWA IS REQUESTING CHINA
TO WARN INDIA or give them more money
Because they are unable to cope
 
Right now we have No Reason to Expand
The Conflict

However Pakistan is Finding even the Localised LOC conflict as very difficult

RIGHT NOW BAJWA IS REQUESTING CHINA
TO WARN INDIA or give them more money
Because they are unable to cope

China will issue a well thought out statement that will in diplo speak say - We like Pakistan over India

China is finding it hard to throw hard cash into Pakistan because they all steal from each other. CPEC is an embezzler's wet pornographic orgy dream. China's liquidity is under strain with the Trade war they got into with Orange top. They wont throw large amounts of hard cash.

Already Chinese money is coming as commercial loans and not aid or grants. If you appreciate the difference you will see the undercurrent under the piles of "Higher than Himalayas Garbage"

Take all of above with a pinch of salt - I am just a hobbyist.
 
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If People Who are so EASILY Disheartened by Feb 27

Then they must READ the stories of 1965 war

How we could have lost but yet we Won in the End And After a Proper planning and preparation took our Revenge in 1971

It is Very Good that there was No internet in
1965 otherwise All the Crybabies would have
Not Allowed 1971 war :ROFLMAO:
 
If People Who are so EASILY Disheartened by Feb 27

Then they must READ the stories of 1965 war

How we could have lost but yet we Won in the End And After a Proper planning and preparation took our Revenge in 1971

It is Very Good that there was No internet in
1965 otherwise All the Crybabies would have
Not Allowed 1971 war :ROFLMAO:

We again went in with a clear objective in mind, a P5 firmly behind us and once done resisted the urge to go overboard and hit West Pak.

Whats the clear objective this time? PKMB? PoK? In both these cases it looks like India is going trigger happy on a weak neighbor. Does not help our larger aspirations like UNSC or NSG
 
Absolutely! This I pointed out in the first comment itself! Why did the IAF not induct longer-range AAM even after 7 years of PAF procuring AMRAAM is something IAF leadership should answer. Hopefully, MoD bureaucrats will take them to task for this!

Because IAF can buy stuff right off the shelf and MoD is just waiting for them to send a proposal and next day weapons fly in

*sarcasm off*

Because a Russian equivalent (RVV-SD) didn't exist and Astra was still under development. By the time a Russian equivalent became available, so did Astra. As for Derby ER, it matured only recently, and IAF is going for it.

None of these missiles would have played a part during Balakot.
 
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Sure, you are free to have your opinion and thoughts. But that rationale has no bearing on my opinions and thoughts. Since, the armed forces are so adamant at keeping the civilians out of the loop during such incidents, my opinions will be formed accordingly. If the leadership of this country has the same line of thinking then I guess having no expectations from the armed forces at all is the best solution here.

So, how about this-
From my perspective (this is coming from someone whose family member is a Wing Commander in the Air Force), if my family members or I join the armed forces and somehow a random jihadi manages to blow my body apart including lets say the death of those 1000 other soldiers you mentioned, should we expect no escalation to war? Whats the point of these deaths then? Will these armed forces escalate if and only if some criterion are fulfilled? Who sets these arbitrary numbers as redlines? Will 2000 deaths suffice? or 5000? Or next you are gonna say that since there is no objective to be achieved with war, we should let these deaths go. Imagine telling the families that their husband's/son's life is really not worthy enough to go to war. What is the incentive here to join the armed forces? You do realize the signal that you are giving to the civilians here?

I get your point that PA are irrational actors, but are you telling me that those 1000s of strategists still haven't found a way to humiliate PA? Alright, if revenge cannot be a motive then start capturing land for every death that occurs. Step by step start eating up POK for every terrorist attack they orchestrate. How about publicly displaying the dead body of every infiltrator? That must have a psychological effect on general pakistani populace. Start a propaganda campaign to show the pakistani civillians the dead bodies of their fellow countrymen laying on LOC. All we get is a pathetic video once in 2 years or so. The whole of Pakistan can't be irrational, right? How about letting modi go to a world stage like UNGA and start displaying thousands of photos/videos showing pakistani bodies littering the LOC

Since I am a civilian and I have no basis to give such lectures/sermons, I'll stop lecturing the armed forces on what to do and how to do it. Enough people are already being paid to devise such strategies. But the least I expect the whole *censored*ing system to do, is to avenge those deaths somehow and present some tangible proof of the same. But even that is too much to ask while being branded a traitor.

The fact is that we are a nation that is larger than pakistan by a magnitude of several times and we still couldn't make it too expensive for them to sponsor terrorism in India. If we have failed at deterring them then its our complacency not theirs. Your explanation that that they are irrational and its not our fault, seems to me, is the result of same warped mindset. If we are still willing to take a sucker punch to our faces and not willing to retaliate, we really can't blame them if they keep punching us again and again. Which self respecting nation would let the death of 1000 soldiers slide like that?(paraphrasing you)

Somehow, my extremely subjective and pessimistic opinion is that, what we blame the PA for, is the same problem we have. After all, armed forces are comprised of humans, and humans everywhere have the same weaknesses. Nobody is innocent. After reading the incidents about IB being complicit with kashmiri politicians for milking the central govt., maybe just maybe, some higher ups in our chain of command have vested interests in keeping this shitshow in a status quo. I hope to god that this isn't so.

rant over /s.

I think you have entirely misunderstood his post.
 
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