Indian Political Discussion

Cool, shave your kid's head and dump it in Ganges. Or simply dump the dead new born there.

Enlightened west didn't showed up here to steal your superstitions. And no, dumping crap in Ganges is not my roots, I will dump these superstitions and primitiveness just like I dumped sati and in process of dumping caste-ism.

Pollution Point : Pollutants that can be absorbed by the environment and are temporary in nature (called fund pollutants) have little to no risk in medium to long term. e.g. All organic and natural "wastes". Short term Effect last mere days to weeks. Such Components are eventually broken down (maximum of months and in mere days in wet and humid environments).

Dumping in exess when natural waste is high in volume, i.e. that exceeds the natural capacity of the said eco system to absorb it will throw the balance off cycle. It happens at times most causes are natural (natural calamities introduction of news species). Even if by Humans, it is Natural, the Ecosystem adjusts itself. The problem begins when artificial things that do not occur in nature are created and dumped. Nature doesn't have the Mechanism to absorb that. If plastic grew on trees believe me (or Darwin) there would be an organism that would break it down into its basic constituents.

Societal Point : The Enlightened west is not free from Superstition, A large part of it is deadly superstitious. Sepatarion of Church and state has hidden this a fact. But yes they have achieved great environmental laws, Yet it its convenient to overlook the fact heat the currrent standards were not built in day. The condition of western rivers was much worse than what Ganges or any other river in India is today. I was largely because West had rapidly industrialized while the society was yet to catch up to the importance to environment, the Rhine in the 80s was much like what the yamuna is today. By today's standards it was a dump. Thames was no less during those days. Even today it isn't but... it has improved by huge standards. So what you see today is only reflection of a stage of development of the country, rivers will get cleaned up eventually, but it will take decades.

Also, though I'd like the term renaissance, western enlightenment term bestows some divinity to a series of occurrences that were mostly by chance, not by divine intervention.

Lastly, All "-isms and -anities" are bad, but to use Sati to Browbeat point of inferiority only the native culture to equate it with current lackings is not a valid argument. The "Enlightened west" also at one point in time used to burn "Witches, heathens and Pagans" at the stake, Try holding that as an equal to present day racism in the west, (which is nothing but the class superiority 'they' have, sounds familiar?) and other huge societal issues. All societal/religious evils were predominant when resources were less and scarce, after that centuries of opulence (1600 onwards) and access to cheap resources did play a part in Renaissance to Industrial revolution eventually leading to the west we see today. India, till late 60s, was fully agrarian, and is not even industrialized today.

Classes will remain in society, as caste or some other social division, there will never be equality but to grope towrds a better out come is a collective objective, egalitarian utopia is a myth. India is trying to do in mere decades, amidst the chaos of feeding 1 billion hungry mouths and resource scarcity, what Europeans has centuries to evolve. Birth Pangs of a new civilization is all around you, our lifetimes are merely a blink of an eye.
 
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Pollution Point : Pollutants that can be absorbed by the environment and are temporary in nature (called fund pollutants) have little to no risk in medium to long term. e.g. All organic and natural "wastes". Short term Effect last mere days to weeks. Such Components are eventually broken down (maximum of months and in mere days in wet and humid environments).

Dumping in exess when natural waste is high in volume, i.e. that exceeds the natural capacity of the said eco system to absorb it will throw the balance off cycle. It happens at times most causes are natural (natural calamities introduction of news species). Even if by Humans, it is Natural, the Ecosystem adjusts itself. The problem begins when artificial things that do not occur in nature are created and dumped. Nature doesn't have the Mechanism to absorb that. If plastic grew on trees believe me (or Darwin) there would be an organism that would break it down into its basic constituents.

Societal Point : The Enlightened west is not free from Superstition, A large part of it is deadly superstitious. Sepatarion of Church and state has hidden this a fact. But yes they have achieved great environmental laws, Yet it its convenient to overlook the fact heat the currrent standards were not built in day. The condition of western rivers was much worse than what Ganges or any other river in India is today. I was largely because West had rapidly industrialized while the society was yet to catch up to the importance to environment, the Rhine in the 80s was much like what the yamuna is today. By today's standards it was a dump. Thames was no less during those days. Even today it isn't but... it has improved by huge standards. So what you see today is only reflection of a stage of development of the country, rivers will get cleaned up eventually, but it will take decades.

Also, though I'd like the term renaissance, western enlightenment term bestows some divinity to a series of occurrences that were mostly by chance, not by divine intervention.

Lastly, All "-isms and -anities" are bad, but to use Sati to Browbeat point of inferiority only the native culture to equate it with current lackings is not a valid argument. The "Enlightened west" also at one point in time used to burn "Witches, heathens and Pagans" at the stake, Try holding that as an equal to present day racism in the west, (which is nothing but the class superiority 'they' have, sounds familiar?) and other huge societal issues. All societal/religious evils were predominant when resources were less and scarce, after that centuries of opulence (1600 onwards) and access to cheap resources did play a part in Renaissance to Industrial revolution eventually leading to the west we see today. India, till late 60s, was fully agrarian, and is not even industrialized today.

Classes will remain in society, as caste or some other social division, there will never be equality but to grope towrds a better out come is a collective objective, egalitarian utopia is a myth. India is trying to do in mere decades, amidst the chaos of feeding 1 billion hungry mouths and resource scarcity, what Europeans has centuries to evolve. Birth Pangs of a new civilization is all around you, our lifetimes are merely a blink of an eye.

I am finding tough to see your argument.

Is it that if pollutant are biodegradable and have only short term impact, must be allowed? How about open defecation then?

Where this west vs east comes in with all pride and roots?

If its a crap - short, medium or low term impact, and can be avoided, must be avoided to get mix in what we eat, drink and breath.

When did highlighting ones own drawbacks becomes browbeat? Especially when people try to sell any crap under disguise of culture and roots? You do invoke instances to show your progressiveness.
 
Well.
35849109_1654205514709161_7129315582993760256_o.jpg
 
Check my first post on subject and then come back.

And no, it was never super clean as per current cleanliness standards. People were still dumping mortals and defecating in it.
it was super clean just 4-5 decades ago(we had water taken in some bottles during 70s and I drank from one of them during late 90s, still those bottles are as clean as they were before 5 decades), dumping dead animals were never a problem as tortoise finishes them off in just hours, dumping wrapped bodies was one of the problem and its not because of superstition, its because Police who used to get 3000 rupees per anonymous body to burn them in electric chimney used to keep the money and just used to spend 500 rupees to despose off the body in wrapped cloth. Dumping ashes of burnt bodies were never a problem, in very rare cases when it is still born they used to dump without burning. Next problem was untreated sewage and obviously factories. untreated sewage before 4-5 decades used to get cleaned by river itself and factories were not there before 4-5 decades.
 
BJP is working overtime for complete wipeout in UP 2019 elections. In most probable case I always thought they will be able to retain some 35-40 seats after opposition unity but it seems it will be nothing short of a miracle if they are able to cross double digit mark. People in power despite the best intentions are as disconnected from ground reality as Akhilesh in 2017. In my memory only congress worked so hard in 2012-13 to meet their glorious end.
 
I am finding tough to see your argument.

Is it that if pollutant are biodegradable and have only short term impact, must be allowed? How about open defecation then?

Where this west vs east comes in with all pride and roots?

If its a crap - short, medium or low term impact, and can be avoided, must be avoided to get mix in what we eat, drink and breath.

When did highlighting ones own drawbacks becomes browbeat? Especially when people try to sell any crap under disguise of culture and roots? You do invoke instances to show your progressiveness.

A biodegradable pollutant : Doesn't destroy ecosystems, (like vegetable and food waste) It doesn't mean that one should just throw them on the streets, same argument for open defecation. Lack of civic sense is a result of lack of civic amenities. Lack of civic amenities is there because of the sate of a piss poor society, which lacks from civic infra and a proper education system. All are a result of lack of proper resources to the society. All societies went through this phase.

Giving water burial to the dead needs to have a process and regulation associated with it. Again needs education and resources to implement. Like Electricity powered crematoriums came into being. Open defecation has reduced significantly in the country, and is well on its path to elimination because the government and the people took an active call to eliminate it.

The East Vs West point came because of the use of the term "enlightened west" it not because of pride, it simple reason that Low Population and resource abundance (though colonization) gave them a head start, and some deify the west for this. We have less per capita resource, progress will be slow. We were more or less a pre-Medieval/Medieval society till a few decades ago, barring 4-5 cities which were mere partial pockets of "modernity".

Certain Cultures have it handled it differently, case point being that of Japan, 5 decades ago Tokyo Osaka belt was as polluted as Delhi-NCR. It will take a lot of time to bring about the cultural changes here. We have issues, and they can be handled properly if resources are made available.
 
The Pic you have is actually is of Police recusing the person away from the mob with help from locals. Next Pic of them putting him in their car and taking him to hospital but that won't fit your point isn't it. ?

View attachment 2759

After he is dead?

do you carry a man who is about to die like an animal who has been slaughtered? And if you check the original video, see the age of the folks around the man pleading for his life.... small kids and anpadh youths. Bravo.
 
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After he is dead?

do you carry a man who is about to die like an animal who has been slaughtered? And if you check the original video, see the age of the folks around the man pleading for his life.... small kids and anpadh youths. Bravo.

There was a Mob. The Police were out numbered and without any equipment, all they could do was to try and get him out of there anyway they could. The man had faced mob violence, anyone will plead for his life. Also how is this a political point ? I assume you are not an anpadh youth, but how you are not able to comprehend a Law and Order Problem as a political one ?

Remember this ? These are padha likha literate youth of Kerala who lynched and killed this man here, police never got to him. even took selfies with him. What are you Bravo-ing about?

selfie_attapady.jpg
 
Remember this ? These are padha likha literate youth of Kerala who lynched and killed this man here, police never got to him. even took selfies with him. What are you Bravo-ing about?

The incident was widely condemned and the folks involved were arrested, and it was a robbery, no religion involved.... the stuff happening with cow based politics and killings is only getting worse. let me see who gets arrested in this case.
 
The incident was widely condemned and the folks involved were arrested, and it was a robbery, no religion involved.... the stuff happening with cow based politics and killings is only getting worse. let me see who gets arrested in this case.

"Cow based Politics" hmm... is your perception that mob violence never has never happened before because of religious sentiments of "anpadh people" getting swayed by rumor ?

Mob Violence should never happen, in the first place, yet If you could stop Virtue Signalling and give some hard data (both reported and Unreported by Media) of that these never happened before and are only happening today because of Cow Politics that would be awesome,you see you are a Padha likha person I assume, and are not reacting out of mere sentiment like these anpadh people but because you are aware of verifiable facts.
 
Mob violence is nothing new in India only cuz it's reported today by particular ideology to score political doesn't make it a new phenomenon.

Root of mob violence lies in the incompetence of police as people know if they follow law nothing will happen and if they break law they can get away with it.

What is worrying is this new trend of selective reporting to build a particular narrative, as a kid I was witness to atleast two incidents where thieves were caught by people. There was terror of thieves and many people lost their hard earned money to them so when they caught them they started beating them, they tied them to a tree and everyone took chance, if someone called the police they arrive hours later by the time thieves were beaten badly and in most cases they die. Recent reforms have led to less harassment by police for calling them but a decade ago calling police meant getting into trouble.

Now if you want to solve this issue you need to make police accountable as only they can enforce rule of law but what's happening is nobody is interested in improving the system. People are literally waiting for some tragedy to happen so that they can earn money or vote in the name of it.

There was a story in NDTV in which people caught a thief stealing bike, they started beating him and later police took him away. Now is normal incident that happens but what NDTV reported is dalit thief beaten by mob!!!! Should the mob ask for caste certificate when they catch someone stealing?! As per NDTV yes.

People are getting used as useful idiots to spread hate by both sides and they are lost in delusion that their forum or twitter outrage is creating pressure or change. I am not condoning this or saying you should shut up but when you give political colours (cow, jihad or whatever) to it you are getting played and I don't think you even know it. You have all the noble intentions in mind but you are literally helping people who want to divide and spread hatred.
 
The Emperor Uncrowned

A long read , not unbiased from a not too recent piece still relevant for today .

@Ashutosh ; @Bali78 ; @Milspec ; @RATHORE ; @BlackOpsIndia

Read this, this is best of the day:

The holier-than-cow Indian liberal elite is actually Modi’s best friend and ally

This is the reality of lefty ecosystem which neo liberals are now realizing. The whole ecosystem is based on conspiracy, back stabbing, lies, deceit and only I am right. It's really strange that such an old and experienced journalist took so much time to understand reality of it!
 
of course you are right. Central and north India filled with illiterate and unemplyed people led by illiterate buffoons indulge in cow politics. In kerala an incident like that comes once in 20 years. In Up and BJP led states once in 20 hours. About time south led tthe north to enlightenment.
@Aravind .

From invoking the man on the cross , Papachan is now invoking southern pride . Of course Kerala rules the roost here being the largest employing state . People from the south and rest of India flock to Kerala for employment. Velutha , here , lives in Bangalore out of the goodness of his heart .That his NGO is registered there is incidental.