Indonesia orders 42 Rafale jets from France

Of the 42 Indonesian Rafales, there will be 30 single-seaters and 12 two-seaters. The contract is estimated to be worth $8.1 billion, including armament. The contract is expected to come into force during 2022 and the first deliveries are scheduled for three years later, in 2025/26.

"This sale gives credibility to France's Indo-Pacific strategy," says the Ministry of Defence. With the possible order of two Scorpene submarines, "Indonesia would have the same Rafale-Scorpene pairing as another major partner in the region, India."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 
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thinkingcap81 said:
Countries with smaller economy than us are ordering more Rafales than us. We take eons to decide and finally order less of everything so that Pakistan doesn't go bankrupt trying to offset our military. I don't understand why they hate us so much in PDF :unsure:😤.
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A) Hate against India (Hindus) is institutionalized in Pak......many many years ago, PTV-2 (not PTV-1) used to be telecast in Hyd (later, the govt banned Pak channels in India). I watched PTV-2 for a few hours [I could not watch further. My stomach turned on the contents].

In those few hours, between entertainment programs, there were many dirty news about Kashmir showing all lies / wrong news [like Muslims can not do namaz, etc etc with people saying the same, not just news anchor saying so]. A small kid of Pak [7or 8 year girl] did an electusion on muslim women being raped in kashmir etc etc.

There was single question quiz during advertisement break like "How many kashmiris did Indian forces killed in last x years?"
Answer-A) 10000 kashmiris
Answer-B) 30000 kashmiris
Answer-C) 60000 kashmiris
Answer-D) 90000 kashmiris

Answer will be shown after few advertisements. After the ads, the answer is shown as "D".

Few of my friends watched PTV-1 for a few mins, and said they could not watch further as the propaganda is much much higher in PTV-1 vs PTV-2.

B) Text books in Pak also show distorted history....there are some phrases in their elementary school text books that are spewing venom on Hindus [pls search google].

C) All this anti-india conditioning was being done from the inception of Pak.

D) I met one pakistani in USA and had good discussions with him. He said that everyone in Pak used to be obsessed about India.

E) anti-India ideology + ISI are major things that are holding their country together.

F) I wonder what will happen if ISI is bought under civilian control. Zardari tried that unsuccessfully.

G) It surprises me very much, that the Indian journalists who must be following Pak closely do not educate the normal Indian public about the hatred that Pak has about India.

PS#1: I also wasted much time in my life reading all english newspapers of Pak for many years. Recently, I stopped reading them, as that nation is incorrigible.
PS#2: Previously, nations on wrong path used to die, but due to fear of nuclear weapons falling in wrong hands, western govts were propping up Pak. Maybe, some of that stopped after afghan fiasco.
PS#3: Just imagine, Shoaib Akhtar + Shahid Afridi who played in India, been to India and lived in India atleast for a few months, talk about Ghawaja-e-hind.
 
randomradio said:
For 24 Rafales a year, we only need $3B for 3+9 years. That's only 40% of the IAF's current procurement budget, possibly only 20% of their probable budget from 2026-29 onwards. LCA Mk2 simply continues from where Mk1A left off. AMCA's main serial production will happen when LCA and Rafale production cycles are ending. Drones are also far away, plus cheaper than LCA, plus will take a long time before main serial production will begin.

Even if the IAF's budget grows only by 25% over the next 7 years, ie, $10B, an unrealistically low growth figure, 24 Rafales and 24 LCAs together will cost no more than 40-45% of the capital budget. The IAF will still have the budget necessary to buy another 12-24 jets of a different type at the time.
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What about the costs of setting a new factory in India , all that expenditure will be reflected in the Final Unit Cost

Secondly what IF , SU 75 turns out to be really good , and Russia also helps in AMCA.

If Rafale is limited at 72 , then we can have both Su 75 and Rafale
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
What about the costs of setting a new factory in India
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Already largely covered by the offsets from the first batch. DRAL and TRDS have neighboring facilities at Nagpur. And whenever possible, components are sourced from local subcontractors, e.g.

Lucknow firm to make parts for Rafale, BAE, Safran | Lucknow News - Times of India

Located some 25 km away from the heart of the city, Precision Tools & Castings Private Limited (PTC Industries), with its 150 engineers and advance ar
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
 
Well the best part about this thread from the French perspective here is @WHOHE won't be polluting this thread with his comments & raining on the French parade here .
 
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Communiqué_42 Rafale pour l'Indonésie
Press release_42 Rafale for Indonesia
Update: 10/02/2022

The Minister of Defence visited Jakarta from 9 to 10 February 2022. This visit is part of the particularly intense exchanges that have taken place over the past two years and demonstrates the importance of the bilateral relationship between France and Indonesia.

The Minister met with the President of the Republic of Indonesia Joko Widodo, the Minister of Defence, Prabowo Subianto and the Minister of Foreign Affairs Retno Marsudi. With her interlocutors, Florence Parly discussed the regional situation and the convergences of appreciation between the two countries. Linked by a strategic partnership for ten years, France and Indonesia have seen their relations intensify and diversify around mutually beneficial projects. The talks were also an opportunity to exchange views on regional and international security issues with a view to jointly contributing to the preservation of peace.

The visit of the Minister of the Armed Forces was an opportunity to formalise the acquisition by Indonesia of 42 Rafale fighter aircraft, after several months of negotiations in a particularly competitive context. This acquisition will be fully confirmed when the contract comes into force, at the end of the Indonesian administrative process. The aircraft to be delivered will be new, directly from the Dassault Aviation production line in France. This historic contract with one of our major partners in Southeast Asia confirms once again the worldwide recognition of French excellence in armaments. Along with India, Indonesia is the second country in the Indo-Pacific region to have chosen the Rafale, bringing the number of countries that have purchased the Rafale to seven in addition to France (Qatar, Egypt, India, Greece, Croatia, United Arab Emirates and now Indonesia). Thanks to its versatility and high development potential, the Rafale, a French omni-role fighter aircraft in operational service with our forces, has demonstrated its combat capabilities and is perfectly suited to Indonesia's current and future needs.

The French Minister of the Armed Forces, Florence Parly, welcomed Indonesia's choice of the Rafale to modernise its fleet of combat aircraft: "This choice illustrates the strength of the strategic partnership between our countries. Indonesia is a major regional power whose influence is set to grow. France, as an Indo-Pacific nation, is delighted to be able to support it in its capability and industrial development, and to contribute to providing it with the best tools to ensure the surveillance and protection of its air and maritime spaces.

More generally, this visit was an opportunity to demonstrate France's willingness to contribute to Indonesia's major strategic programmes and to participate in the development of a strong industrial fabric in the defence sector. The exchanges confirmed the prospects for synergies between our armed forces thanks to the acquisition of common equipment as well as through the organisation of joint exercises or stopovers of our resources. The involvement and common concerns of our two countries with regard to security issues in the whole of the Indo-Pacific fully justify the development of links between our two countries in the field of defence and security.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
Of the 42 Indonesian Rafales, there will be 30 single-seaters and 12 two-seaters. The contract is estimated to be worth $8.1 billion, including armament. The contract is expected to come into force during 2022 and the first deliveries are scheduled for three years later, in 2025/26.

"This sale gives credibility to France's Indo-Pacific strategy," says the Ministry of Defence. With the possible order of two Scorpene submarines, "Indonesia would have the same Rafale-Scorpene pairing as another major partner in the region, India."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Click to expand...

From what I understand 6 is fully commited to.

The following 36 are "understood" i.e MOU commitment....but full commitment will come when Indonesia commits the finance for it in its budget.

It may work out to some number of tranches involved in that as indonesia financing is kind of done slower pace maybe.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Well the best part about this thread from the French perspective here is @WHOHE won't be polluting this thread with his comments & raining on the French parade here .
Click to expand...
Why would he? There is no anti-f-35 trolling, or making wild claims about Rafale myths.

It's a good sale for France. Indonesia is building their air force and like some, have different fighter types at the same time.

breakingdefense.com

State Department approves $13B F-15EX sale to Indonesia, on heels of Rafale deal - Breaking Defense

Indonesian Defence Minister Prabowo Subianto had previously indicated that Indonesia was interested in buying both Rafales and the F-15EX, as part of a major defense spending increase planned for the coming decades.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
Optimist said:
Why would he? There is no anti-f-35 trolling, or making wild claims about Rafale myths.
Click to expand...

Dude the guy has gone completely MO for me. He keeps tagging me he thinks of me all the time. That's how bad I think I've mentally F-ed him so much so he likely thinks of me while working at those scam/call centers.
Optimist said:
It's a good sale for France. Indonesia is building their air force and like some, have different fighter types at the same time.

breakingdefense.com

State Department approves $13B F-15EX sale to Indonesia, on heels of Rafale deal - Breaking Defense

Indonesian Defence Minister Prabowo Subianto had previously indicated that Indonesia was interested in buying both Rafales and the F-15EX, as part of a major defense spending increase planned for the coming decades.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
Click to expand...

So Indonesia is also buying American... the most advanced 4th gen fighter in the world the F-15ex. Good for Boeing.

Like France US will also sell their 4th gen fighters to just about anyone since 4th gen fighters are pretty much in their twilight years and aren't anywhere near as capable as US 5th gen fighters. Only certain nations have the privilege to buy the F-35 and its most advanced tech and capabilities.
 
WHOHE said:
Dude the guy has gone completely MO for me. He keeps tagging me he thinks of me all the time. That's how bad I think I've mentally F-ed him so much so he likely thinks of me while working at those scam/call centers.
Click to expand...
So, you stil maintain Americans are easy to gyp . That's great . At least we don't get to hear much about the famed American intellect behind the F-35.
WHOHE said:
So Indonesia is also buying American... the most advanced 4th gen fighter in the world the F-15ex. Good for Boeing.

Like France US will also sell their 4th gen fighters to just about anyone since 4th gen fighters are pretty much in their twilight years and aren't anywhere near as capable as US 5th gen fighters. Only certain nations have the privilege to buy the F-35 and its most advanced tech and capabilities.
Click to expand...
They haven't yet signed up for the F-15 now , have they ?You can get into celebratory mood once they do sign up .

Further , I noticed I didn't tag you for that little documentary I posted on your wonderbird where your esteemed Gen Bogdan ( yup , the same person you love quoting in here ) takes a bit of a piss on your wonder bird . Check this out

Post in thread 'Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion' Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
What about the costs of setting a new factory in India , all that expenditure will be reflected in the Final Unit Cost
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it's not expensive compared to the size of the contract. In Dassault's case, they have already set up an assembly line.

The MoD/MoF prefer paying in rupees than dollars anyway.

STEPHEN COHEN said:
Secondly what IF , SU 75 turns out to be really good , and Russia also helps in AMCA.

If Rafale is limited at 72 , then we can have both Su 75 and Rafale
Click to expand...

Su-75 is an export grade aircraft, we have no interest in it. Plus it's not gonna be ready for another 10 years. Russia's only top-of-the-line option today is the Su-57, and even that's at least 3-4 years away.
 
Nilgiri said:
From what I understand 6 is fully commited to.

The following 36 are "understood" i.e MOU commitment....but full commitment will come when Indonesia commits the finance for it in its budget.

It may work out to some number of tranches involved in that as indonesia financing is kind of done slower pace maybe.
Click to expand...

They have a grand set of 5-year plans going into the 2040s.

Indonesia reveals USD125 billion military modernisation plan

A draft regulation from Indonesia’s presidential office has outlined the requirement for investment of USD125 billion in military modernisation through to the mid-2040s....
www.janes.com www.janes.com
 
Nilgiri said:
From what I understand 6 is fully commited to.

The following 36 are "understood" i.e MOU commitment....but full commitment will come when Indonesia commits the finance for it in its budget.

It may work out to some number of tranches involved in that as indonesia financing is kind of done slower pace maybe.
Click to expand...
Maybe the first 6 are already paid with some funds of 2021, when the others have to wait new cash ???
 

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Nilgiri said:
From what I understand 6 is fully commited to.

The following 36 are "understood" i.e MOU commitment....but full commitment will come when Indonesia commits the finance for it in its budget.

It may work out to some number of tranches involved in that as indonesia financing is kind of done slower pace maybe.
Click to expand...
For all contracts there are two binding steps:

- The signing of the contract which is legally binding.
- The entry into force of the contract, which takes place when the first down payment is made and which conditions all the deadlines in the contract.

The contract is deemed to be secure with the first step because the second step is only time-consuming administrative formalities. For example, for the 80 Rafale contract with the UAE, there has only been the first stage for the moment and nobody questions the reality of the contract.

For Indonesia, the first stage has been acquired for 42 Rafales and the second stage could be activated for 6 Rafales because there was a residual amount of financing left over due to the cancellation of the SU-35 purchase. This saves about 6 months of delay for the delivery of the first Rafales and if the second stage can be carried out for the next 36 within these 6 months, there will be continuity in the delivery of these Rafales.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
For all contracts there are two binding steps:

- The signing of the contract which is legally binding.
- The entry into force of the contract, which takes place when the first down payment is made and which conditions all the deadlines in the contract.

The contract is deemed to be secure with the first step because the second step is only time-consuming administrative formalities. For example, for the 80 Rafale contract with the UAE, there has only been the first stage for the moment and nobody questions the reality of the contract.

For Indonesia, the first stage has been acquired for 42 Rafales and the second stage could be activated for 6 Rafales because there was a residual amount of financing left over due to the cancellation of the SU-35 purchase. This saves about 6 months of delay for the delivery of the first Rafales and if the second stage can be carried out for the next 36 within these 6 months, there will be continuity in the delivery of these Rafales.
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For us it's much simpler. We sign a contract, the first payment goes out within the month. Very rarely does it cross that, and it mainly has to do with the other side, like the major delay we saw with the S-400's first payment. Otoh, we delay the signature until the time we are ready to make the first payment, which we saw with the Rafale deal. Even Apache and Chinook, where Boeing waited for way more than a year.
 
randomradio said:
For us it's much simpler. We sign a contract, the first payment goes out within the month. Very rarely does it cross that, and it mainly has to do with the other side, like the major delay we saw with the S-400's first payment. Otoh, we delay the signature until the time we are ready to make the first payment, which we saw with the Rafale deal. Even Apache and Chinook, where Boeing waited for way more than a year.
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Yes, but there are countries that borrow to pay for example and it takes longer and the administrative processes are country specific.
 
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