We have similar tastes in music. I like background instrumental as well.
Islamic Republic of Pakistan : News, Discussions & Updates
- Thread starter Butter Chicken
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We have similar tastes in music. I like background instrumental as well.
What if Armed forces are incompetent?
What if we citizens are inconpetent? What if as society we are incompetent? There is no answer of such what if.
But, politicians are coming from the same society we living in, they are not parachuting from hell where by default they are incompetent.
People get what they deserve.
Pakistan ranks 13th least prosperous country on Legatum Prosperity Index | The Express Tribune
Even after so much External debt and concessional loans by its " Fathers "
(Pakistan has Three Fathers - US , China ,GCC ) Pakistan is still so poor
Even after so much External debt and concessional loans by its " Fathers "
(Pakistan has Three Fathers - US , China ,GCC ) Pakistan is still so poor
I, once read a book by Shishir Gupta entitled - The Himalayan Face Off, where he recounts an incident narrated by Shyam Saran, the then FS, who said that circa 2004-5, when the China Study Group first noticed the accelerated state of infrastructure construction in Tibet accompanied by structural reforms and technical advancements by the PLA, were busy trying to formulate a policy in response, the GOC East (?), If I'm not mistaken , was totally opposed to any changes in the status quo in our infrastructure bordering the Chinese and was utterly taciturn in his outlook.
This shook up the FS & the rest of the foreign policy establishment, where they tried their utmost to change the view of the said officer to no avail.
Hence, you see, these aren't isolated cases. At the end of the day, our armed forces are humans, who having internalised the prevailing notion that their priorities and their lives are pretty low down the order in the list of the powers that be. Hence, why should there be any pressing need for them to stick their necks out. It's a cynical view. In keeping with our times.
I'd try to dig out the relevant details and post a pic of the said page.
Wont reply there.... Deliberately keeping myself away......
Page -99, Last but 2 paragraph onwards.... For the sake of brevity ( I've read this book long ago & quoted from memory) pls ignore such details that I've quoted in my post to @Milspec @: viz - dates, status of the officers officers concerned, etc. But the gist of my argument remains the same....
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I shall patiently wait for the rebuttal.
The book quotes an incident from 2004. I'm sure you'd agree that plenty of water has flowed under the bridge since then.
It was never my contention that the armed forces could or would over rule the Government of the day. Rather, we were discussing the views of senior generals both serving & retired and how the tremendous apathy all around ( principally by the political classes & the bureaucracy as represented by the MoD and to a certain extent by the citizenry too) seem to be / has taken it's toll on them.
When we discuss the examples of unvarnished valour under the most trying of circumstances that our armed forces has displayed and that we as citizens of this nation are justifiably proud of, let's not shy away from the grim episodes of downright cowardice, poor leadership and other such controversial instances.
A few random episodes that come to ones mind needs to be listed -
Like Gen Kauls selection and conduct in 1962 preceded by Nehru's & Menon's absolutely shameful treatment of Gen Thimayya.
Like our surrendering Jelep La without a shot being fired during the Chola incident in 1967.
Like Maj Gen Niranjan Prasad's disgraceful conduct in both the 1962 & 1965 wars.
Like the resolute & fierce defence put up by the PA in the Sialkot Chammb sector, forcing our army to back off through some questionable decisions by our army leadership there.
Is it out of place to expect an army to fight with what it has, however meagre the resources it possesses & if need be to make the ultimate sacrifice, should the situation call for it or should one expect them to reason it out and rationalize their conduct, tailoring it to fit in the occasion?
That to my mind is the crux of the debate.
Wont reply there.... Deliberately keeping myself away......
*leaves positive rating*...*scoots away*
India, Pakistan exchange list of nuclear installations
India and Pakistan on Tuesday exchanged for the 28th consecutive year a list of their nuclear installations under a bilateral agreement that prohibits them from attacking each other’s atomic facilities.
The two countries also exchanged details of civilian prisoners and fishermen lodged in each other’s jails.
The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said India handed over to Pakistan a lists of 249 Pakistani civilian prisoners and 98 fishermen in its custody.
Pakistan gave India lists of 54 civilian prisoners and 483 fishermen in its custody, who are Indians or are believed-to-be-Indians.
The two countries, through diplomatic channels simultaneously at New Delhi and Islamabad, exchanged the list of nuclear installations and facilities covered under the Agreement on the Prohibition of Attack against Nuclear installations between India and Pakistan.
The agreement, which was signed on December 31, 1988 and came into force on January 27, 1991, says that the two countries will inform each other of nuclear installations and facilities to be covered under the agreement on January 1 of every calendar year.
This is the twenty eighth consecutive exchange of such list between the two countries, the first one having taken place on January 1, 1992.
The two countries exchanged lists of prisoners and fishermen in keeping with the provisions of a 2008 agreement under which such lists are shared on January 1 and July 1 every year.
The MEA said India has also called for early release and repatriation of civilian prisoners, missing Indian defence personnel and fishermen along with their boats.
“In this context, Pakistan was asked to expedite the release and repatriation of 17 Indian civilian prisoners and 369 Indian fishermen to India whose nationality has been confirmed,” it said.
“Immediate consular access has also been sought for the remaining prisoners and fishermen to facilitate their early release and repatriation,” it said.
India has also asked Pakistan to expedite response in the case of 80 Pakistani prisoners who have completed their sentences and await repatriation for want of nationality confirmation by Pakistan.
To take forward the understanding reached to address the humanitarian issues, especially with respect to elderly, women and mentally unsound prisoners, India has already shared the details of the reconstituted Joint Judicial Committee and that of the Indian medical experts team to visit Pakistan to meet the prisoners.
The MEA said India has also asked Pakistan to expedite the visit of the panel.
“Pakistan has also been requested to expedite the visit of a group of fishermen representatives to facilitate the repatriation of Indian fishing boats, presently held in Pakistan’s custody at the earliest,” it said.
The two countries have adhered to the practice of exchanging the lists of prisoners and nuclear installations despite recurring tensions.
India, Pakistan exchange list of nuclear installations
India and Pakistan on Tuesday exchanged for the 28th consecutive year a list of their nuclear installations under a bilateral agreement that prohibits them from attacking each other’s atomic facilities.
The two countries also exchanged details of civilian prisoners and fishermen lodged in each other’s jails.
The Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) said India handed over to Pakistan a lists of 249 Pakistani civilian prisoners and 98 fishermen in its custody.
Pakistan gave India lists of 54 civilian prisoners and 483 fishermen in its custody, who are Indians or are believed-to-be-Indians.
The two countries, through diplomatic channels simultaneously at New Delhi and Islamabad, exchanged the list of nuclear installations and facilities covered under the Agreement on the Prohibition of Attack against Nuclear installations between India and Pakistan.
The agreement, which was signed on December 31, 1988 and came into force on January 27, 1991, says that the two countries will inform each other of nuclear installations and facilities to be covered under the agreement on January 1 of every calendar year.
This is the twenty eighth consecutive exchange of such list between the two countries, the first one having taken place on January 1, 1992.
The two countries exchanged lists of prisoners and fishermen in keeping with the provisions of a 2008 agreement under which such lists are shared on January 1 and July 1 every year.
The MEA said India has also called for early release and repatriation of civilian prisoners, missing Indian defence personnel and fishermen along with their boats.
“In this context, Pakistan was asked to expedite the release and repatriation of 17 Indian civilian prisoners and 369 Indian fishermen to India whose nationality has been confirmed,” it said.
“Immediate consular access has also been sought for the remaining prisoners and fishermen to facilitate their early release and repatriation,” it said.
India has also asked Pakistan to expedite response in the case of 80 Pakistani prisoners who have completed their sentences and await repatriation for want of nationality confirmation by Pakistan.
To take forward the understanding reached to address the humanitarian issues, especially with respect to elderly, women and mentally unsound prisoners, India has already shared the details of the reconstituted Joint Judicial Committee and that of the Indian medical experts team to visit Pakistan to meet the prisoners.
The MEA said India has also asked Pakistan to expedite the visit of the panel.
“Pakistan has also been requested to expedite the visit of a group of fishermen representatives to facilitate the repatriation of Indian fishing boats, presently held in Pakistan’s custody at the earliest,” it said.
The two countries have adhered to the practice of exchanging the lists of prisoners and nuclear installations despite recurring tensions.
India, Pakistan exchange list of nuclear installations
After Forbes another recommendation for Pakistan:
The Sunday Times Travel team selects the must‑see spots for the year ahead
Rising up: Nanga Parbat, in Pakistan’s Western HimalayasFENG WEI/GETTY
The Sunday Times, December 30 2018, 12:01am
So, who’s about ready for a holiday? It’s been a tumultuous year, and whisking ourselves off to foreign climes to bury not just our toes but also, perhaps, our heads in the sand has rarely seemed more appealing. Our guide offers plenty of inspiration for travel in the year ahead: 19 destinations that we believe are enjoying a bit of a moment.
Some are cities, some regions, some entire countries. A few are on our doorstep, others so remote they’ve barely heard of the internet, let alone Brexit. The intrepid will be keeping a keen eye on the emergence of Principe and the Guianas, and on the rise of Pakistan. England’s first vineyard hotel and the vibrant foodie scene in northwest Wales will keep staycationers…
I don't have account there so
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The best holiday destinations for 2019
After Forbes another recommendation for Pakistan:
The Sunday Times Travel team selects the must‑see spots for the year ahead
Rising up: Nanga Parbat, in Pakistan’s Western HimalayasFENG WEI/GETTY
The Sunday Times, December 30 2018, 12:01am
So, who’s about ready for a holiday? It’s been a tumultuous year, and whisking ourselves off to foreign climes to bury not just our toes but also, perhaps, our heads in the sand has rarely seemed more appealing. Our guide offers plenty of inspiration for travel in the year ahead: 19 destinations that we believe are enjoying a bit of a moment.
Some are cities, some regions, some entire countries. A few are on our doorstep, others so remote they’ve barely heard of the internet, let alone Brexit. The intrepid will be keeping a keen eye on the emergence of Principe and the Guianas, and on the rise of Pakistan. England’s first vineyard hotel and the vibrant foodie scene in northwest Waleswill keep staycationers…
I don't have account there so
Want to read more?
Subscribe now and get unlimited digital access on web and our smartphone and tablet apps, free for your first month.
The best holiday destinations for 2019
Miya mere, chhapna hain toh yeh chhapo
There's a whole series from December 2018.
When will you guys grow up?
This entire thread is bloody wonky.
Pls look at the order of response.
@randomradio
Only since you're online
Pls look at the order of response.
@randomradio
Only since you're online
Col. Lawrence Sellin is an interesting guy; just started following him on twitter. Very clear headed and direct in his analysis of Pakistan and other issues in the neighborhood.