Israel-Hamas Conflict: Updates & Discussions

H2 producers will produce their own energy via solar power. So it's a one-time investment for at least 25-30 years of uninterrupted electricity generation. Storage is a non-issue, only a few months' reserve is required, with the rest consumed. It's a problem only for transportation, not for static storage. And even that's dealt with using a massive pipeline infrastructure.
So use the most inefficient method of power production, that'll help reduce costs for sure. Massive, unecessary pipelines.
Volume is not gonna matter, it's a consumable. Hydrogen is pretty safe.
Sure it will, you always pay by volume when transporting.
The warranty is 8 years. Expected life is 15 years. The average life of a car in the US is 12 years.
Warranty of my Tesla Powerwall 2 is 15 years.
And it's for limited distances, less than 200k km. Something suitable for a mom and pop car, not a goods or service vehicle that's constantly on the road. For example, those large trucks you see in the US do well over 100k miles a year.

The Nikola fuel cell is anticipated to output more than 300kW continuously. It has been designed to handle the entire lease period of one million miles per truck.

If you're gonna need a power source that's gonna last a million to 2 million miles, it's not gonna come from Li-ion batteries.
Lucid Airs do over 500 miles now.

Compared to what, mining?
Mining is a known.
That's not gonna come cheap.
And massive pipeline infrastructure is. Fact is, EVs are already managing.
The cost advantage and efficiency moves towards H2 if you consider from zero to well to tank to wheel to well. 'Cause H2 infra is only built once and then recycled. But batteries have to constantly be mined and rebuilt.
Up to 95% recyclable.


H2 fuel cells are only 80-90% recyclable.

 
So use the most inefficient method of power production, that'll help reduce costs for sure. Massive, unecessary pipelines.

Erm... The pipelines are necessary to supply gas and H2 to powerplants and cities. Electrical wiring is in fact more problematic, can't put it everywhere.

Sure it will, you always pay by volume when transporting.

It will be compressed. They are inventing new ways to compress H2 as well.

Plus H2 compression happens with all the excess energy produced at solar farms.

Warranty of my Tesla Powerwall 2 is 15 years.

It's not a car battery, it's a home backup. Very different rules. No vibrations, no exposure to the elements, power output is gradual etc.

Lucid Airs do over 500 miles now.


Sure. Otoh, they will make H2 also more efficient, capable of upgrading its range.

I mean, it's a far newer tech than battery and already surpasses battery in range. Mirai already does 1000 km with just 5.6 kg.

Mining is a known.

The opposite. We haven't even tapped mining properly.

Hell, they even plan on replace platinum in FCs with zirconium, which is quite literally found in beach sand.

And massive pipeline infrastructure is. Fact is, EVs are already managing.

Yes, 'cause it's part of regular energy infrastructure of all countries.

Up to 95% recyclable.


H2 fuel cells are only 80-90% recyclable.


The recycling process for FC is superior to batteries.
 
Erm... The pipelines are necessary to supply gas and H2 to powerplants and cities. Electrical wiring is in fact more problematic, can't put it everywhere.
You can put cabling wherever you can put pipes and they take less space and don't need as much maintenance.
It will be compressed. They are inventing new ways to compress H2 as well.
They're inventing better battery technology too.
Plus H2 compression happens with all the excess energy produced at solar farms.
Energy which could instead be used to charge and power EVs directly. Batteries can also store energy from solar and wind farms to use at times of higher demand, so there's industrial synergy there.
It's not a car battery, it's a home backup. Very different rules. No vibrations, no exposure to the elements, power output is gradual etc.
The battery can be wall-mounted outside, in a car it has metal all round it just the same. Besides, it's not like ICE car warranties extend beyond 3-5 years. And all not EVs need a lead acid battery for starting anyway.
Sure. Otoh, they will make H2 also more efficient, capable of upgrading its range.

I mean, it's a far newer tech than battery and already surpasses battery in range. Mirai already does 1000 km with just 5.6 kg.
At .27kg per gallon, that's a 21 gallon tank. And given that we've established a 1kg = 1.0 GCE, I'd love to know the conditions of that test. In fact let's go back to the link on that one.


In addition, the increased efficiency of the fuel cell system, together with higher hydrogen storage capacity and better aerodynamics, contribute to an increase of driving range to around 650 km under normal driving conditions, with less than 5 minutes refuelling time at a 700 bar refuelling station.

To achieve this 1003 km driving distance record, the drivers adopted an “eco-driving” style but no special techniques that could not be used by everyday drivers.
So it's 650km (406 miles) under normal EEC driving conditions vs 516 miles.
The opposite. We haven't even tapped mining properly.

Hell, they even plan on replace platinum in FCs with zirconium, which is quite literally found in beach sand.
The point being that H2 will escape during processing and during RTAs. We also don't know the long term effects of massive H2O emissions - the guy who invented CFCs and leaded petrol won a nobel prize during his time.
Yes, 'cause it's part of regular energy infrastructure of all countries.
So are electricity distribution networks. Pipelines would need massive upgrading to allow the distribution of hydrogen liquid and petrol and diesel and not currently pumped to stations, they are transported in tankers by road. with H2, you would need 4 times as many tanker visits.
The recycling process for FC is superior to batteries.
Platinum has a lot of mining waste. Currently there's just economic laziness when it comes to recycling EV lithium-ion batteries but the laziness is due to be regulated away by authorities. They've avoided it until now because reducing emissions was more urgent.


The researchers at Sweden’s Chalmers University of Technology have developed a recycling method that allows recovery of 100 per cent of the aluminium and 98 per cent of the lithium in electric car batteries.


Typically, more than 95% of the precious metals in theMEA are reclaimed during this process.

Recyclability is about the same.
 
You can put cabling wherever you can put pipes and they take less space and don't need as much maintenance.

Actually they do.

They're inventing better battery technology too.

I don't think the benefits will accrue over time as efficienty as H2. Batteries are still going to be expensive.

Energy which could instead be used to charge and power EVs directly. Batteries can also store energy from solar and wind farms to use at times of higher demand, so there's industrial synergy there.

You need more battery for that then.

At .27kg per gallon, that's a 21 gallon tank. And given that we've established a 1kg = 1.0 GCE, I'd love to know the conditions of that test. In fact let's go back to the link on that one.


Real world conditions.

H2 is all weather. Not so much with batteries.

What's more interesting is heat generated by H2 can be used to heat the cabin, so no need for a separate heater that drains more battery.

So BEVs are already bad for large parts of Europe.

So it's 650km (406 miles) under normal EEC driving conditions vs 516 miles.

Basically if you speed, it's gonna drain more, which is normal. All cars drop in mileage with higher speed.

The point being that H2 will escape during processing and during RTAs. We also don't know the long term effects of massive H2O emissions - the guy who invented CFCs and leaded petrol won a nobel prize during his time.

Oh, yeah, water bad 'cause CFC bad. Logic 101. All the fumes from mining, good.

So are electricity distribution networks. Pipelines would need massive upgrading to allow the distribution of hydrogen liquid and petrol and diesel and not currently pumped to stations, they are transported in tankers by road. with H2, you would need 4 times as many tanker visits.

We are creating pipeline infrastructure at least in India. It may be a problem for you. But for long distance driving, you are not gonna get charge points everywhere. But it's gonna be easy to call for help when it comes to H2.

Platinum has a lot of mining waste. Currently there's just economic laziness when it comes to recycling EV lithium-ion batteries but the laziness is due to be regulated away by authorities. They've avoided it until now because reducing emissions was more urgent.

Zirconium.







Recyclability is about the same.

The potential is similar, not the same. But nobody talks about how expensive it's gonna be.

As of today, only 5% of Li-ion batteries are recycled. Less than 1% in the US and EU.


A fuel cell doesn't have this problem, it's very easily recycled.

China's going nuts with green H2. They have already spent $42B on it to date. And their oil imports are dropping really fast.

Anyway--
 
Actually they do.
No they don't. Even common water mains piping needs massive maintenance you can tell by all the road works. OHLs and UGCs need very little.
I don't think the benefits will accrue over time as efficienty as H2. Batteries are still going to be expensive.
Mass manufacture will make them cheaper. Platinum used in fuel cells however will never be cheap, especially not if you increase the demand.
You need more battery for that then.
All part of the same economy - car batteries, grid batteries, home batteries. Renewable electricity needs batteries regardless of cars.
Real world conditions.
No, you didn't read the link:


In addition, the increased efficiency of the fuel cell system, together with higher hydrogen storage capacity and better aerodynamics, contribute to an increase of driving range to around 650 km under normal driving conditions, with less than 5 minutes refuelling time at a 700 bar refuelling station.

To achieve this 1003 km driving distance record, the drivers adopted an “eco-driving” style but no special techniques that could not be used by everyday drivers.
Normal driving gives under 650km, for a Lucid Air it's 516miles (830km).
H2 is all weather. Not so much with batteries.

What's more interesting is heat generated by H2 can be used to heat the cabin, so no need for a separate heater that drains more battery.

So BEVs are already bad for large parts of Europe.
Batteries generate plenty of heat, they need cooling, besides all cars have air con these days anyway.
Basically if you speed, it's gonna drain more, which is normal. All cars drop in mileage with higher speed.
Nope, it's saying that the route was specially chosen for high mpg, i.e. constant speed of say 56mph, not a combined cycle, which is what cars are marketed at wrt range. By comparison, this is the record for EVs.

Oh, yeah, water bad 'cause CFC bad. Logic 101. All the fumes from mining, good.
You still have to mine for fuel cell materials and the metal you use to build the car with, so it's not like H2 eliminates mining. And given the size of H2 fuel tanks, the car will be bigger and need more material.
We are creating pipeline infrastructure at least in India.
More mining required for pipework material.
It may be a problem for you. But for long distance driving, you are not gonna get charge points everywhere. But it's gonna be easy to call for help when it comes to H2.
Plan you journey. Most people don't travel far enough for it to be a problem though. I mean, 516 miles is a long drive, longest I've ever done is 373miles and that lasted almost an entire day, so 516 miles is probably further than it's safe for anyone to drive without a break anyway.
Zirconium.
What about it? There are huge breakthroughs in battery density happening, LFP batteries, Sodium batteries.
The potential is similar, not the same. But nobody talks about how expensive it's gonna be.

As of today, only 5% of Li-ion batteries are recycled. Less than 1% in the US and EU.
That's laziness though, 99% of lead acid batteries are recycled and that's lead FFS. All about regulations.
A fuel cell doesn't have this problem, it's very easily recycled.
It's not actually, it's also expensive. You can't even find % figures on current fuel cell recycling.

China's going nuts with green H2. They have already spent $42B on it to date. And their oil imports are dropping really fast.

Anyway--
In total H2 fuel cells have been around for as long as EVs, they just never took off. So saying fuel cell technology is newer is false, it isn't.


Using hydrogen as an energy store is hugely inefficient. With current technology producing hydrogen from water by way of electrolysis consumes vastly more energy than will be stored and ultimately released by burning the hydrogen. Why not use the same electricity to generate the heat or drive a motor directly? The necessary electrolysis equipment is expensive. And though hydrogen may burn cleanly, as a fuel it is inconvenient because of its corrosive properties, its low energy per unit of volume, and its tendency to explode. Storing and moving hydrogen around will require huge investment in shipping facilities, pipelines, filling stations, or facilities to convert hydrogen into the more stable form of ammonia.

The kind of schemes pushed by hydrogen’s lobbyists foresee annual consumption rising by 2050 to more than 600 million tons per annum, compared to 100 million tons today. This would consume a huge share of green electricity production. In a scenario favored by the Hydrogen Council, of the United States’ 2,900 gigawatts of renewable energy production, 650 gigawatts would be consumed by hydrogen electrolysis. That is almost three times the total capacity of renewable power installed today.

The costs will be gigantic. The cost for a hydrogen build-out over coming decades could run into the tens of trillions of dollars. Added to which, to work as a system, the investment in hydrogen production, transport, and consumption will have to be undertaken simultaneously.

Little wonder, perhaps, that though the vision of the “hydrogen economy” as an integrated economic and technical system has been around for half a century, we have precious little actual experience with hydrogen fuel. Indeed, there is an entire cottage industry of hydrogen skeptics. The most vocal of these is Michael Liebreich, whose consultancy has popularized the so-called hydrogen ladder, designed to highlight how unrealistic many of them are. If one follows the Liebreich analysis, the vast majority of proposed hydrogen uses in transport and industrial heating are, in fact, unrealistic due to their sheer inefficiency. In each case there is an obvious alternative, most of them including the direct application of electricity.

The uses are long haul aviation and shipping. It will never be a good idea for cars or short haul travel.

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No they don't. Even common water mains piping needs massive maintenance you can tell by all the road works. OHLs and UGCs need very little.

Everything needs maintenance. Even wiring.

Mass manufacture will make them cheaper. Platinum used in fuel cells however will never be cheap, especially not if you increase the demand.

Zirconium.

No, you didn't read the link:



Normal driving gives under 650km, for a Lucid Air it's 516miles (830km).

It means they just drove on a public road at an efficient speed. Normal driving also includes very low and very high speed, that drains battery. And someday the capacity will increase.

Nope, it's saying that the route was specially chosen for high mpg, i.e. constant speed of say 56mph, not a combined cycle, which is what cars are marketed at wrt range. By comparison, this is the record for EVs.


That's not a car you can drive around, it's a concept car. You can buy the Mirai, it's a production car.

You still have to mine for fuel cell materials and the metal you use to build the car with, so it's not like H2 eliminates mining. And given the size of H2 fuel tanks, the car will be bigger and need more material.

Zirconium.

More mining required for pipework material.

Existing industry.

Plan you journey. Most people don't travel far enough for it to be a problem though. I mean, 516 miles is a long drive, longest I've ever done is 373miles and that lasted almost an entire day, so 516 miles is probably further than it's safe for anyone to drive without a break anyway.

You are neither an Uber driver nor a truck driver.

It's not actually, it's also expensive. You can't even find % figures on current fuel cell recycling.

'Cause FCs are not available at industrial scales. But FC recycling is easy. It's very easy to standardize the battery, just like lead acid.

In total H2 fuel cells have been around for as long as EVs, they just never took off. So saying fuel cell technology is newer is false, it isn't.

'Cause H2 was expensive, unlike now. FCEVs for regular civilian use is new.


Using hydrogen as an energy store is hugely inefficient. With current technology producing hydrogen from water by way of electrolysis consumes vastly more energy than will be stored and ultimately released by burning the hydrogen. Why not use the same electricity to generate the heat or drive a motor directly? The necessary electrolysis equipment is expensive. And though hydrogen may burn cleanly, as a fuel it is inconvenient because of its corrosive properties, its low energy per unit of volume, and its tendency to explode. Storing and moving hydrogen around will require huge investment in shipping facilities, pipelines, filling stations, or facilities to convert hydrogen into the more stable form of ammonia.

The kind of schemes pushed by hydrogen’s lobbyists foresee annual consumption rising by 2050 to more than 600 million tons per annum, compared to 100 million tons today. This would consume a huge share of green electricity production. In a scenario favored by the Hydrogen Council, of the United States’ 2,900 gigawatts of renewable energy production, 650 gigawatts would be consumed by hydrogen electrolysis. That is almost three times the total capacity of renewable power installed today.

The costs will be gigantic. The cost for a hydrogen build-out over coming decades could run into the tens of trillions of dollars. Added to which, to work as a system, the investment in hydrogen production, transport, and consumption will have to be undertaken simultaneously.

Little wonder, perhaps, that though the vision of the “hydrogen economy” as an integrated economic and technical system has been around for half a century, we have precious little actual experience with hydrogen fuel. Indeed, there is an entire cottage industry of hydrogen skeptics. The most vocal of these is Michael Liebreich, whose consultancy has popularized the so-called hydrogen ladder, designed to highlight how unrealistic many of them are. If one follows the Liebreich analysis, the vast majority of proposed hydrogen uses in transport and industrial heating are, in fact, unrealistic due to their sheer inefficiency. In each case there is an obvious alternative, most of them including the direct application of electricity.

The uses are long haul aviation and shipping. It will never be a good idea for cars or short haul travel.

View attachment 31527

All criticisms about H2 are based on cost of H2, platinum, storage and logistics. But they are addressing all these issues rapidly.

It's all 'cause the infrastructure efficiently ties into existing infrastructure and is easily scalable. For example, H2 and natural gas can use the same pipeline infra, right up to your kitchen. Compressing H2 is easily done using the excess energy produced by solar farms. Platinum can be replaced by zirconium, which is 700 times cheaper. Fuel cells can be standardized easily and are fully recyclable. The refueling process is as fast as diesel. And it has far more efficient use cases 'cause it can run gas turbines in powerplants, aircraft and ships. You can also store it for decades in caverns just like fossil fuels. Lastly, since it's produced in a factory, it can be made as cheap as possible with better technology and is subject to standard market rates which ebbs and flows based on demand, which means the producers are always at an advantage and can very easily subsidize it for the domestic market while exporting at significantly higher international prices. And it has none of the disadvantages of batteries, like limited life, degradation over time, excessive weight, prone to accidents, expensive recycling process etc.
 
Everything needs maintenance. Even wiring.
Wiring needs very little maintenance, only the circuit protection typically needs changing within the space of a century. Piping is hell to maintain, you have corrosion, leaks at the seals and the stuff seals are made of isn't particularly great for the environment either. Then you have the mining of the material in these huge pipes, which will be massive due to the low energy/volume ratio of H2.
Zirconium.
What about it? That's mined too. The cars will also be bigger due to low energy/volume ratio of H2 necessitating larger tanks. It doesn't make sense for personal transport.
It means they just drove on a public road at an efficient speed. Normal driving also includes very low and very high speed, that drains battery. And someday the capacity will increase.
Nope, they drove at a constant speed on a pre-selected route, a combined cycle involves a mixture of less efficient urban driving and travel at 56mph and 75mph. The figure of 1,000km is nonsense basically and has no bearing on reality.

That's not a car you can drive around, it's a concept car. You can buy the Mirai, it's a production car.
They're both world records for their respective classes. The equivalent H2 concept record is still less.


This is the EV record for an upcoming production car - 1,202km.


EVs also have lower CoGs, which saves on tyres.
Zirconium.
Also mined. Not even used yet either. What's your point?

Sodium.
Existing industry.
Currently used for other things = higher demand. H2 corrodes pipes.
You are neither an Uber driver nor a truck driver.
Truck drivers sleep in their cab = recharging time. Uber journeys are short, perfect for EV.
'Cause FCs are not available at industrial scales. But FC recycling is easy. It's very easy to standardize the battery, just like lead acid.
EV hasn't achieved full scale yet either and all indication are that it is recyclable with the will to do it.
'Cause H2 was expensive, unlike now. FCEVs for regular civilian use is new.
Nope.

All criticisms about H2 are based on cost of H2, platinum, storage and logistics. But they are addressing all these issues rapidly.
The storage and logistics issue isn't addressable it's just a hard fact. Good luck convincing people to use expensive green energy just for compressing H2 for personal transport.
It's all 'cause the infrastructure efficiently ties into existing infrastructure and is easily scalable. For example, H2 and natural gas can use the same pipeline infra, right up to your kitchen. Compressing H2 is easily done using the excess energy produced by solar farms. Platinum can be replaced by zirconium, which is 700 times cheaper. Fuel cells can be standardized easily and are fully recyclable. The refueling process is as fast as diesel. And it has far more efficient use cases 'cause it can run gas turbines in powerplants, aircraft and ships. You can also store it for decades in caverns just like fossil fuels. Lastly, since it's produced in a factory, it can be made as cheap as possible with better technology and is subject to standard market rates which ebbs and flows based on demand, which means the producers are always at an advantage and can very easily subsidize it for the domestic market while exporting at significantly higher international prices. And it has none of the disadvantages of batteries, like limited life, degradation over time, excessive weight, prone to accidents, expensive recycling process etc.
Nope, nope, nope. H2 is 3 times the volume of natural gas, which means larger pipes and....


The excess energy produced by solar farms will be stored in batteries for use after dark.

Platinum yet to be replaced by Zirconium.

Not fully recyclable, about the same as Li batteries, less so than Na batteries.

Not as fast because of volume flow rates required.

Yes for gas turbines, only valid application. Not a bad replacement for Russian gas in that respect.

You can store electricity in batteries.

ATEX requirements for H2 storage.

All cars have limited life. Higher CoG, larger vehicle due to low density of fuel, more metal, not necessarily lighter.

Battery technology also improving.

Life - Not really. A car would be a light duty vehicle.


FCEVs have expensive recycling processes also.

Degradation:

 
Wiring needs very little maintenance, only the circuit protection typically needs changing within the space of a century. Piping is hell to maintain, you have corrosion, leaks at the seals and the stuff seals are made of isn't particularly great for the environment either. Then you have the mining of the material in these huge pipes, which will be massive due to the low energy/volume ratio of H2.

You are underestimating the maintenance requirements for electrical wiring.

Think this is cheap?

Can easily be attacked too.

What about it? That's mined too. The cars will also be bigger due to low energy/volume ratio of H2 necessitating larger tanks. It doesn't make sense for personal transport.

Zirconium is literally found in beach sand. They just scoop it up and dump it in trucks.

Cars won't be bigger. Mirai is just a sedan, and they can double the range on it with better compression and higher efficiency FCs.

Nope, they drove at a constant speed on a pre-selected route, a combined cycle involves a mixture of less efficient urban driving and travel at 56mph and 75mph. The figure of 1,000km is nonsense basically and has no bearing on reality.


They're both world records for their respective classes. The equivalent H2 concept record is still less.


This is the EV record for an upcoming production car - 1,202km.


EVs also have lower CoGs, which saves on tyres.

Also mined. Not even used yet either. What's your point?

Sodium.

Currently used for other things = higher demand. H2 corrodes pipes.

Concept cars. EVs are heavier for equivalent range.

Lol at pipe corrosion.

Truck drivers sleep in their cab = recharging time. Uber journeys are short, perfect for EV.

EVs can't sustain continuous operation, like changing drivers. Or deal efficiently with breakdowns. Uber drivers don't have the time to stop for recharging, it hits their bottomline.

Even with current technology, FCs already beat EVs in long haul and sustained operations. It's not even a debate anymore. And this doesn't even consider the life of the batteries. FCs are being made for a million-mile life for trucks.

EV hasn't achieved full scale yet either and all indication are that it is recyclable with the will to do it.

It is. But you gotta pay more.


Dude. H2 was expensive.

The storage and logistics issue isn't addressable it's just a hard fact. Good luck convincing people to use expensive green energy just for compressing H2 for personal transport.

People are already investing more money into green H2 than batteries.

In India alone, 34 companies have bid for H2 production license. China is very likely using gray, blue and green H2 to push for energy self-sufficiency before they invade Taiwan.

Nope, nope, nope. H2 is 3 times the volume of natural gas, which means larger pipes and....


The excess energy produced by solar farms will be stored in batteries for use after dark.

Platinum yet to be replaced by Zirconium.

Not fully recyclable, about the same as Li batteries, less so than Na batteries.

Not as fast because of volume flow rates required.

Yes for gas turbines, only valid application. Not a bad replacement for Russian gas in that respect.

You can store electricity in batteries.

ATEX requirements for H2 storage.

All cars have limited life. Higher CoG, larger vehicle due to low density of fuel, more metal, not necessarily lighter.

Battery technology also improving.

Life - Not really. A car would be a light duty vehicle.


FCEVs have expensive recycling processes also.

Degradation:


Mirai has already killed a lot of your assertions. All you have competing with it are some concept cars.

Everything is stuff they are gonna address better than they can on batteries.

Batteries aren't suitable for long term storage. For that, you need to maintain a 50-60% charge and keep recharging it every few months in a room that has environment controls. You can't just store it in a strategic reserve and forget about it. And for short term storage, you still have to invest in more batteries.
 
Looks like conflict is now going to widen to other cntries.



Iran: At least 103 killed, 141 wounded in blasts at ceremony honoring slain general​

Iranian state media called the blasts a "terroristic" attack.
ByJON GAMBRELL Associated Press
January 3, 2024, 6:22 AM



People stay next to an injured man after an explosion in Kerman, Iran, Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024. Explosions at an event honoring a prominent Iranian general slain in a U.S. airstrike in 2020 have killed at least 73 people and wounded over 170 others, state-run media in Iran reported Wednesday. (AP Photo/Mahdi Karbakhsh Ravari)

People stay next to an injured man after an explosion in Kerman, Iran, Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024. Explosions at an event honoring a prominent Iranian general slain in a U.S. airstrike in 2020 have killed at least 73 people and...Show more
The Associated Press

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- Two bombs exploded and killed at least 103 people Wednesday at a commemoration for a prominent Iranian general slain by the U.S. in a 2020 drone strike, Iranian officials said, as the Middle East remains on edge over Israel's war with Hamas in Gaza.
No one immediately claimed responsibility for what appeared to be the deadliest militant attack to target Iran since its 1979 Islamic Revolution. Iran's leaders vowed to punish those responsible for the blasts, which wounded at least 211 people.
The blasts minutes apart shook the city of Kerman, about 820 kilometers (510 miles) southeast of the capital, Tehran, and sprayed shrapnel into a screaming crowd fleeing the first explosion.
The gathering marked the fourth anniversary of the killing of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the head of the Revolutionary Guard’s elite Quds Force, in a U.S. drone strike in Iraq. The explosions occurred near his grave site as long lines of people gathered for the event.
Iranian state television and officials described the attacks as bombings, without immediately giving clear details of what happened. The attacks came a day after a deputy head of the Palestinian militant group Hamas was killed in a suspected Israeli strike in Beirut.

The first bomb Wednesday was detonated around 3 p.m., and the other went off some 20 minutes later, the Iranian interior minister, Ahmad Vahidi, told state television. He said the second blast killed and wounded the most people.
Images and video shared on social media appeared to correspond with the accounts of officials, who said the first blast happened about 700 meters (765 yards) from Soleimani's grave in the Kerman Martyrs Cemetery near a parking lot. The crowd then rushed west along Shohada Street, where the second blast struck about 1 kilometer (0.62 miles) from the grave.
A delayed second explosion is often used by militants to inflict more casualties by targeting emergency personnel responding to an attack.
Iranian state TV and state-run IRNA news agency quoted emergency officials for the casualty figures. Authorities said Thursday would be a national day of mourning.
Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said the attackers will face “a harsh response,” though he didn't name any possible suspect. Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi added: "Undoubtedly, the perpetrators and leaders of this cowardly act will soon be identified and punished.”

Iran has multiple foes who could be behind the assault, including exile groups, militant organizations and state actors.
While Israel has carried out attacks in Iran over its nuclear program, it has conducted targeted assassinations, not mass casualty bombings. Sunni extremist groups including the Islamic State group have conducted large-scale attacks in the past that killed civilians in Shiite-majority Iran, though not in relatively peaceful Kerman.
Iran also has seen mass protests in recent years, including those over the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini in 2022. The country also has been targeted by exile groups in attacks dating back to the turmoil surrounding its 1979 Islamic Revolution.
Iran itself has been arming militant groups over the decades, including Hamas, the Lebanese Shiite militia Hezbollah and Yemen’s Houthi rebels. As Israel wages its devastating war in Gaza after Hamas' Oct. 7 attacks that killed 1,200 people, both Hezbollah and the Houthis have launched attacks targeting Israel that they say come on behalf of the Palestinians.
Israel is suspected of launching the attack Tuesday that killed a deputy head of Hamas in Beirut, but that attack caused limited casualties in a densely populated neighborhood of the Lebanese capital. Last week, a suspected Israeli strike killed a Revolutionary Guard commander in Syria.

A Houthi spokesman, Mohammed Abdel-Salam, sought to link the bombings to Iran's “support for the resistance forces in Palestine and Lebanon,” though he did not specifically blame anyone for the attack.
In Beirut, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah called the people who died in the attacks “martyrs who died on the same road, cause and battle that was led by” Soleimani.
Russian President Vladimir Putin called the attack “shocking in its cruelty and cynicism,” while Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan condemned the “heinous terrorist attacks.”
Neighboring Iraq expressed condolences, and the European Union issued a statement offering “its solidarity with the Iranian people.”
Soleimani was the architect of Iran’s regional military activities and is hailed as a national icon among supporters of Iran’s theocracy. He also helped secure Syrian President Bashar Assad’s government after the 2011 Arab Spring protests against him turned into a civil, and later a regional, war that still rages today.

Soleimani had been relatively unknown in Iran until the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq. His popularity and mystique grew after American officials called for his killing over his help in arming militants with penetrating roadside bombs that killed and maimed U.S. troops.
A decade and a half later, Soleimani had become Iran’s most recognizable battlefield commander. He ignored calls to enter politics but grew as powerful, if not more so, than its civilian leadership.
Ultimately, a drone strike launched by the Trump administration killed the general, part of escalating incidents that followed America’s 2018 unilateral withdrawal from Tehran’s nuclear deal with world powers.
Soleimani’s death has drawn large processions in the past. At his funeral in 2020, a stampede broke out in Kerman and at least 56 people were killed and more than 200 were injured as thousands thronged the procession.
Until Wednesday, the deadliest attack to strike Iran since the revolution was the 1981 truck bombing of the Islamic Republican Party’s headquarters in Tehran. That attack killed at least 72 people, including the party’s leader, four government ministers, eight deputy ministers and 23 parliament members.
In 1978 just ahead of the revolution, an intentionally set fire at the Cinema Rex in Abadan killed hundreds of people.
___
Associated Press writers Amir Vahdat and Nasser Karimi in Tehran, Iran; Suzan Fraser in Ankara, Turkey; Bassem Mroue in Beirut; and Jack Jeffery and Emma Burrows in London contributed to this report.
 
You are underestimating the maintenance requirements for electrical wiring.

Think this is cheap?
Hardly ever needs to be done. How often do you see workers on OHLs? Almost never.
Can easily be attacked too.
And pipelines can't?
Zirconium is literally found in beach sand. They just scoop it up and dump it in trucks.
As of 2013, two-thirds of zircon mining occurs in Australia and South Africa.[15]
Cars won't be bigger. Mirai is just a sedan, and they can double the range on it with better compression and higher efficiency FCs.
Tank needs to be bigger for low density H2. You can only compress a fuel so much befor eyou get detonation and pre-ignition.
Concept cars. EVs are heavier for equivalent range.
But there not because the normal EEC range for a Mirai is 650km (406 miles) for a Lucid Air it's 516 miles.

Lol at pipe corrosion.
Fact. And embrittlement.
EVs can't sustain continuous operation, like changing drivers. Or deal efficiently with breakdowns. Uber drivers don't have the time to stop for recharging, it hits their bottomline.
Irrelevant for personal transport. Uber drivers use personal transport, they do not operate continuously, nor do lorries. Chargers are getting faster.
Even with current technology, FCs already beat EVs in long haul and sustained operations. It's not even a debate anymore. And this doesn't even consider the life of the batteries. FCs are being made for a million-mile life for trucks.
Maybe for ships and long haul aviation they make sense, even for GF power stations, but they will never make sense for personal transport.




It is. But you gotta pay more.
There's nothing to verify that, you just keep stating it.
Dude. H2 was expensive.
Is and always will be due to compression and production costs. Most or all industrial hydrogen production at the moment is by steam reforming of natural gas (methane):

CH4+2H2O→CO2+4H2
People are already investing more money into green H2 than batteries.

In India alone, 34 companies have bid for H2 production license. China is very likely using gray, blue and green H2 to push for energy self-sufficiency before they invade Taiwan.
There's very little green H2 about though. Green will only make it more expensive LOL, not cheaper.:ROFLMAO:


As of 2021, green hydrogen accounted for less than 0.04% of total hydrogen production.[5] Its cost relative to hydrogen derived from fossil fuels is the main reason green hydrogen is in less demand.[6] For example, hydrogen produced by electrolysis powered by solar power was about 25 times more expensive than that derived from hydrocarbons in 2018.[7]
Mirai has already killed a lot of your assertions. All you have competing with it are some concept cars.
There's not H2 concept car that can compete with them though. And the Mirai's official range is 402 miles, the Lucid Air's official range is 516 miles.
Everything is stuff they are gonna address better than they can on batteries.
Yeah, well when more than 0.04% of H2 is is green H2 come back and we'll talk. Until then it isn't green at all.
Batteries aren't suitable for long term storage. For that, you need to maintain a 50-60% charge and keep recharging it every few months in a room that has environment controls. You can't just store it in a strategic reserve and forget about it. And for short term storage, you still have to invest in more batteries.
Nope, DoD for Tesla batteries is 100%.


Stop quoting things which aren't facts. Try leaving any liquid fuel in a tank for over a year and then using it.
 
connect the dots....looks like pindi boys are working for US again.





 
That was actually informative and surprising, however the link you then went on to try imply is ridiculous. So now you claim the Taliban and IS are working for the US and Israel? Which even contradicts your own proclamations about the US losing in Afghanistan, since if it were true, it would imply that they actually won.

In other news Islamic terrorists killing each other, win win.
 
That was actually informative and surprising, however the link you then went on to try imply is ridiculous. So now you claim the Taliban and IS are working for the US and Israel? Which even contradicts your own proclamations about the US losing in Afghanistan, since if it were true, it would imply that they actually won.

In other news Islamic terrorists killing each other, win win.
oh yeah taliban is working for US? did you have those bland beans for breakfast.

ISIS is now a confirmed proxy of US/west whichever way you look at it.
 
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oh yeah taliban is working for US? did you have those bland beans for breakfast.
Your first link said that IS were an Afghan affiliate, even though they've conducted attacks in Afghanistan.
ISIS is now a confirmed proxy of US/west whichever way you look at it.
Yeah, that's why they carried out tons of terror attacks in the US and other NATO countries.:poop: And you wonder why the west keeps supporting Pakistan.