Israel-Hamas Conflict: Updates & Discussions
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Israel's president says expelling Palestinians not the plan
"I'm saying outright, officially and unequivocally, this is not the Israeli position," President Isaac Herzog said.
connect the dots....looks like pindi boys are working for US again.
Pak Army’s Iqbal Jadoon, Rao Imran, Khalil Taj Keyani protecting ISIS radicals - The Sunday Guardian Live
A few days ago, an article of mine was published in The Sunday Guardian titled “ISIS leadership enjoys hospitality of Pakistani agencies” in which Isundayguardianlive.com
Islamic State claims responsibility for Iran bombings that killed at least 84
Afghan affiliate of IS claims responsibility for blasts in memorial crowd as Tehran tightens security on its eastern bordersMiddle East crisis – live updateswww.theguardian.com
It's true that ISI is harbouring ISKP as a hedge against Taliban now that the Talibs aren't dancing to Pak's tunes anymore and are working closely with TTP.
But I doubt the attack in Iran was ISI's doing. The Saudis have been far more hands on with IS in the MidEast and have far bigger reasons to target Iran.
Hardly ever needs to be done. How often do you see workers on OHLs? Almost never.
And pipelines can't?
Zirconium - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Tank needs to be bigger for low density H2. You can only compress a fuel so much befor eyou get detonation and pre-ignition.
But there not because the normal EEC range for a Mirai is 650km (406 miles) for a Lucid Air it's 516 miles.
2021 Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell vehicle pricing and range
The 2021 Toyota Mirai is going on sale soon, and Toyota just announced official range and pricing information.www.autoblog.com
Fact. And embrittlement.
Irrelevant for personal transport. Uber drivers use personal transport, they do not operate continuously, nor do lorries. Chargers are getting faster.
Maybe for ships and long haul aviation they make sense, even for GF power stations, but they will never make sense for personal transport.
There's nothing to verify that, you just keep stating it.
Is and always will be due to compression and production costs. Most or all industrial hydrogen production at the moment is by steam reforming of natural gas (methane):
CH4+2H2O→CO2+4H2
There's very little green H2 about though. Green will only make it more expensive LOL, not cheaper.
Green hydrogen - Wikipedia
There's not H2 concept car that can compete with them though. And the Mirai's official range is 402 miles, the Lucid Air's official range is 516 miles.
Yeah, well when more than 0.04% of H2 is is green H2 come back and we'll talk. Until then it isn't green at all.
Nope, DoD for Tesla batteries is 100%.
Tesla Powerwall 3 Review: The Most Popular Home Battery, Now More Powerful
We like the Tesla Powerwall 3's power and well-rounded specifications, but it only comes in one size.www.cnet.com
Stop quoting things which aren't facts. Try leaving any liquid fuel in a tank for over a year and then using it.
You are free to use BEVs for personal use in Britain. But logistics, power, heavy transportation and industry in India will use hydrogen, which will make things cheaper for regular users. This will make India energy-independent, and the people will be able to rely on cheap, sustained energy source that will not be affected by import duties and international market rates, which will in turn not impact inflation and ensure cheap and sustainable production.
So you in Britain are free to mine and import rare earth materials, suffer through supply disruptions and then buy carbon credits from India. And the idiot BEV users in India can go pay their much, much higher electric bills.
I'll give you an example. I run a couple of PCs at home for very likely about 400-500+W peak. I used to keep them running 24/7. I used to get a certain amount in my monthly bill that I wasn't really happy with. I turned off the PCs while I slept, and my bill dropped down by 1000 rupees. Otoh, if I buy a fully developed production model Mirai that does provide 1000 km for 6 kg in normal conditions and I drive 30 km a day for 30 days. Then, at $2 for 6 kg = $12 or 1000 rupees. So for the price of 2 PCs turned off for around 8 hours, I get to drive my Mirai for 30 days.
A BEV is not gonna give me such costs in India. It currently costs Rs. 15 for a charging unit in a large city, and I will need 45 units per charge and at least 3 such full charges every month. That's 45*3*15 = Rs 2025. And you can bet it's gonna cost twice as much due to inflation by the time hydrogen is gonna cost $2. So the average BEV user will have to pay 4 times that of the Mirai. And I'm sure even more efficient hydrogen cars will be made eventually.
You can make the same calculations for your city as well. Google says 28.43m per unit average in London. 45 units x 3 will cost you £38.38 per month. If hydrogen is sold at £3 per kg, then a Mirai at 1000 km will cost you £18. And I bet the car charging cost will actually be much higher. A rapid DC charge costs 85p for example, that's £114.75. Congrats, you are already getting ripped off.
The advantage with hydrogen is the more you make the cheaper it gets. And the cheaper it gets the more marketshare a company has. And this directly benefits the consumer. But electricity is subject to a budget and inflation, it never stops rising. Who knows, someday the volumes produced will be so high, hydrogen will only cost 20 cents.
So while electricity prices keep going up, hydrogen costs will keep coming down.
Now do you get why hydrogen is the future?
It's not going to be cheap though, green hydrogen is not cheap. You are confusing overall H2 costs with green H2 costs.
Green hydrogen - Wikipedia
This is how most H2 is currently produced.
Your green hydrogen is $16/kg.
Cost, colors, and production of hydrogen
Hydrogen comes in many colors. Not really, it is a colorless gas.
A Mirai only gives you 650km in reality.
The more hydrogen you make, the more of it you have to transport and the more energy it requires to compress.
It takes 8.6kWh/kg for isentropic compress, which is probably better than you will see in practice.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
www.awoe.net
1kg H2 contains only 33.33kWh of energy.
idealhy.eu - Liquid Hydrogen Outline
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@randomradio
It takes 8.6kWh/kg for isentropic compress, which is probably better than you will see in practice.
www.awoe.net
1kg H2 contains only 33.33kWh of energy.
www.idealhy.eu
So for the energy you waste compressing every ~3.5kg of H2 I could put the same energy into a battery and get the equivalent of 1kg H2 output.
But it gets worse.
en.wikipedia.org
So you're looking at 62kWh to produce and compress 1kg of H2.
A Tesla Model 3 RWD does 100km on 13.2kWh, so it can do nearly 500km on the energy required to produce and compress 1kg of H2 minus transportation and storage.
So tell me how H2 can possibly be cheaper again?!
Oh and it gets better, transportation and storage.
Like I said, it's a non-starter for personal transport.
It takes 8.6kWh/kg for isentropic compress, which is probably better than you will see in practice.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
www.awoe.net
1kg H2 contains only 33.33kWh of energy.
idealhy.eu - Liquid Hydrogen Outline
So for the energy you waste compressing every ~3.5kg of H2 I could put the same energy into a battery and get the equivalent of 1kg H2 output.
But it gets worse.
Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia
So you're looking at 62kWh to produce and compress 1kg of H2.
A Tesla Model 3 RWD does 100km on 13.2kWh, so it can do nearly 500km on the energy required to produce and compress 1kg of H2 minus transportation and storage.
So tell me how H2 can possibly be cheaper again?!
Oh and it gets better, transportation and storage.
Like I said, it's a non-starter for personal transport.
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It's not going to be cheap though, green hydrogen is not cheap. You are confusing overall H2 costs with green H2 costs.
Green hydrogen - Wikipedia
This is how most H2 is currently produced.
View attachment 31556
View attachment 31557
Your green hydrogen is $16/kg.
Cost, colors, and production of hydrogen
Hydrogen comes in many colors. Not really, it is a colorless gas.www.linkedin.com
A Mirai only gives you 650km in reality.
The more hydrogen you make, the more of it you have to transport and the more energy it requires to compress.
It takes 8.6kWh/kg for isentropic compress, which is probably better than you will see in practice.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
1kg H2 contains only 33.33kWh of energy.
idealhy.eu - Liquid Hydrogen Outline
@randomradio
It takes 8.6kWh/kg for isentropic compress, which is probably better than you will see in practice.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
1kg H2 contains only 33.33kWh of energy.
idealhy.eu - Liquid Hydrogen Outline
So for the energy you waste compressing every ~3.5kg of H2 I could put the same energy into a battery and get the equivalent of 1kg H2 output.
But it gets worse.
Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia
So you're looking at 62kWh to produce and compress 1kg of H2.
A Tesla Model 3 RWD does 100km on 13.2kWh, so it can do nearly 500km on the energy required to produce and compress 1kg of H2 minus transportation and storage.
So tell me how H2 can possibly be cheaper again?!
Oh and it gets better, transportation and storage.
Like I said, it's a non-starter for personal transport.
The Mirai gave 1000 km in real conditions (on real roads) with low levels of FC efficiency. This efficiency will increase in the future with better fuel cell designs. So it's not an unrealistic goal. 1 kg of H2 has 33 kWh of energy, but translates into 15 kWh of energy in a fuel cell. So there's a lot of room for growth. The theoretical limit is 100%. So today's 45% can at least be increased up to 70% in due time. That's up to 23 kWh. For 6 kg, that's up to 138 kWh.
Let's take another example. The most fuel efficient petrol car in India is the Maruti Celerio which gives 27 kmpl. Since it's a shit car compared to the Mirai, let's assume 25 kmpl. So its most efficient petrol consumption for 1000 km is 40 l. And petrol costs roughly 100/l. So 40 l costs Rs 4000 vs the potential Rs 1000 for 6 kg of H2.
Assuming India needs 50B gallons of petrol/diesel by 2030 (up from 33B gallons today), that's 50B kg of H2. Or 50 mmt of H2. We need $25B investment for every 5 mmt of H2 production, so for 50, we need $1.25T in investments. Otoh, 50B gallons or 190B l at Rs 60 (assuming before taxes) costs $142B. So for less than 10 years of fossil fuel consumption, we can set up an entire H2 ecosystem replacing it, where the investment will drop in value relative to time, whereas fuel imports will only become more expensive. If we manage a cheap $140B investment every year from 2030 to 2040, we can replace 50B gallons of fuel, with consumers paying 4 times less. In the meantime, we cut out imports, increase jobs and exports and completely avoid the massive amounts of rare earths necessary.
This is why H2 comfortably beats both BEVs and fossil fuels in India.
Hydrogen production will be done with a lot of initial capital investment into solar power and electrolyzers first. This is expected to bring production down to $1/kg, perhaps even lower.
There's a security issue too. While rare earth supplies can be victims of supply disruption due to blockades and wars, countries like Britain and India cannot rely on electricy being the sole source of transportation simply because the entire electricity infra can be attacked in various way, kinetic, cyber, EMP etc. A simple power outage will stop transportation entirely. Hence the need for H2 as not just your main fuel source but also as a strategic reserve.
Depends on if they want to risk something being traced back to them. So directly through Mossad perhaps.
No, even the link says the Mirai made 1,000km under optimal conditions, with normal driving (combined cycle) it's only 650km and that's the maximum figure that they can legally quote in advertising because of that fact.
TOYOTA NEWS #163｜Beyond the Records: The Message of the Mirai 1000 km Drive Challenge in France｜TOYOTA TIMES
The Toyota Mirai ran over 1000 km on a single hydrogen refuel – an astonishing news that came from Europe in May. Three key persons who led the project explain what made them take on this record-breaking challenge. #TOYOTATIMES
toyotatimes.jp
Toyota Mirai breaks world record for distance driven with one fill of hydrogen
The new Toyota Mirai has increased the world record distance to over 1000 km After breaking the record, Mirai was refuelled, ready to go again in only 5 minutes Demonstrates hydrogen fuel cell technology as a leading solution for long distance driving with zero emissions
So please stop quoting 1,000km as if it can be compared to catalogue values. The 13.2kWh/100km for the Tesla Model 3 RWD is a catalogue value, as is the 14.1kWh/100km for Lucid Air Pure.
Lucid Motors Debuts the Lucid Air Midnight Dream Edition during the International Motor Show 2023 in Munich
Lucid will participate at the International Motor Show (IAA Mobility) for the first time and debut its limited-production Air Midnight Dream Edition
lucidmotors.com
Even if we took the 1,000km figure as a catalogue figure, it gives <180km/kg and it takes 62kWh to produce and compress green H2.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
www.awoe.net
Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia
So that gives 62kWh per 180km or ~35kWh/100km. At the catalogue value, which is the only value that can be fairly compared with the Tesla and Lucid Air catalogue values it's 1kg for 650/5.6 = 116km/kg, which gives ~54kWh/100km.
So that's the bottom line:
Toyota Mirai - 54kWh/100km
Tesla Model 3 RWD - 13.2 kWh/100km
Green H2 costs 4x as much electricity, even ignoring storage and transportation issues.
You've lost the argument, so stop posting.
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electricity is cheap in west it makes some sense to run on EV but the price of batteries will weigh down unless they can find some new wonder material that is available most of the places. This EV thing is more a long term approach to wean away oil and which gives them more geo political space to navigate.
Hydrogen works perfectly for us, initial cost of infrastructure might be high but once set up, it pays in the long term. Even if we are able to get 20-25% of oil consuming systems to move to hydrogen it will save us a fortune.
Doubt saudis will pull such a trick at this point of time.
They very well know iran wouldnt let go such an opportunity to connect it to gaza crisis and and enlarge its stature in muslim world.
winning argument
No, even the link says the Mirai made 1,000km under optimal conditions, with normal driving (combined cycle) it's only 650km and that's the maximum figure that they can legally quote in advertising because of that fact.
TOYOTA NEWS #163｜Beyond the Records: The Message of the Mirai 1000 km Drive Challenge in France｜TOYOTA TIMES
The Toyota Mirai ran over 1000 km on a single hydrogen refuel – an astonishing news that came from Europe in May. Three key persons who led the project explain what made them take on this record-breaking challenge. #TOYOTATIMES
Toyota Mirai breaks world record for distance driven with one fill of hydrogen
The new Toyota Mirai has increased the world record distance to over 1000 km After breaking the record, Mirai was refuelled, ready to go again in only 5 minutes Demonstrates hydrogen fuel cell technology as a leading solution for long distance driving with zero emissionsnewsroom.toyota.eu
So please stop quoting 1,000km as if it can be compared to catalogue values. The 13.2kWh/100km for the Tesla Model 3 RWD is a catalogue value, as is the 14.1kWh/100km for Lucid Air Pure.
Lucid Motors Debuts the Lucid Air Midnight Dream Edition during the International Motor Show 2023 in Munich
Lucid will participate at the International Motor Show (IAA Mobility) for the first time and debut its limited-production Air Midnight Dream Edition
Even if we took the 1,000km figure as a catalogue figure, it gives <180km/kg and it takes 62kWh to produce and compress green H2.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compressionElectrolysis of water - Wikipedia
So that gives 62kWh per 180km or ~35kWh/100km. At the catalogue value, which is the only value that can be fairly compared with the Tesla and Lucid Air catalogue values it's 1kg for 650/5.6 = 116km/kg, which gives ~54kWh/100km.
So that's the bottom line:
Toyota Mirai - 54kWh/100km
Tesla Model 3 RWD - 13.2 kWh/100km
Green H2 costs 4x as much electricity, even ignoring storage and transportation issues.
You've lost the argument, so stop posting.
The Mirai's range was actually achieved, meaning that's the most fuel efficient ride. For fossil fuel cars too, their advertised mileages are in their most fuel efficient states. And you are comparing 45% to a potential 70% efficiency.
And stop worry about compressing H2, it's all done with waste energy at industrial scale.
Math, common sense and logic are in my favor.
Electricity is expensive in the West. The highest tariff in Bangalore for regular households is Rs 8.65 per unit. In London, it's Rs 40.
And car charging infra is seriously expensive, most of the costs will be transferred to consumers, and the costs will keep rising. Especially fast charging infra construction, maintenance and discharge.
Once H2 goals are achieved, the entire industry will switch straight to it, particularly logistics and transportation.
We currently consume 86B l of diesel and 70% of that, 60B l, is used in vehicles. The remaining 30% is used as backup. So, as and when diesel trucks and buses become old, they will naturally switch to H2. Comparatively petrol consumption is just 36B l, 97% in vehicles.
Israeli forces say they locate large underground weapons factory in Gaza
Israeli forces located what they said was the largest weapons production site so far found in Gaza, with underground workshops they said were used to produce long-range missiles capable of hitting targets in northern Israel. The military said that in addition to missiles, the workshops produced...
Yes, but not under conditions required for it to legally state that in a brochure or specification. The spec/brochure range is only 650km. Petrol/diesel cars have 3 figures for mpg in Europe - constant 75mph, constant 56mph, combined cycle - combined cycle is the most relevant.
Even at 1000km for 5.6kg, it still works out to 35kWh/100km, a Tesla Model 3 RWD is 13.2kWh/1000km. It's currently £0.28p per kWh, so 35kWh costs ~£10, a gallon of diesel costs <£1.50 and will give you the same 100km. At the catalogue value of 650km range, the Mirai comes to 54kWh/100km, which is >£15!. The Tesla Model 3's 13.2kWh/100km works out to ~£3.70.
A kWh is a kWh however it's made, so that logic is irrelevant. You could send the same energy to the grid for EV charging.
25 kmpl is also under test conditions at optimal speed, the same as the Mirai.
A 5.6 kg FC provides less than 85 kWh of power, assuming 45% efficiency. I don't know how you got 35 kWh for every 100 km out of that. And a 85 kWh output will give you pretty much the same range as a BEV with a 85 kWh battery. In fact a bit more 'cause the FC makes cars lighter. The Tesla 3's battery weighs 480 kg for the 57.5 kWh version. The Mirai's FC weighs 56 kg and the H2 tank weighs 87.5 kg plus 5.6 kg H2, so about 150 kg in all for up to 85 kWh of power, I'm assuming. Could very well be well above 100 kWh in reality, 'cause it gives 1000 km in economical conditions.
Anyway--
Hydrogen’s Role in Transportation
Hydrogen can store and deliver clean energy for many uses across U.S. economic sectors, including transportation.
So, yeah, 100 miles on 1 kg, ie, $2 per kg. For 10 bucks, you do 1600 km? Dude... You really cannot argue this shit. It's a no-brainer.
It's not efficient enough. Excess energy is typically lost. A solar power plant produces a lot of excess energy, and you can utilize 100% of it efficiently if you are the one controlling the usage, ie, producing and compressing H2.
Another problem with this excess energy is, people are not necessarily charging their cars with it, 'cause they are typically at work at the time. And work chargers could be more expensive. And when charging their car, they do it at night using other forms of energy production like gas turbines or large, very expensive battery reservoirs.
The real reason why H2 is cheaper in the long term is because renewable power can be used up to its maximum efficiency.
Stop responding without reading my links. 1kg of green hydrogen takes 62kWh to produce and compress (assuming 100% compression efficiency). At 1,000km for 5.6kg, that's <180km/kg, so ~35kWh/100km, compared to 13.2kWh/100km for a Tesla Model 3 RWD. Whatever the cost of electricity per kWh that comes out to almost 3x the price.25 kmpl is also under test conditions at optimal speed, the same as the Mirai.
A 5.6 kg FC provides less than 85 kWh of power, assuming 45% efficiency. I don't know how you got 35 kWh for every 100 km out of that. And a 85 kWh output will give you pretty much the same range as a BEV with a 85 kWh battery. In fact a bit more 'cause the FC makes cars lighter. The Tesla 3's battery weighs 480 kg for the 57.5 kWh version. The Mirai's FC weighs 56 kg and the H2 tank weighs 87.5 kg plus 5.6 kg H2, so about 150 kg in all for up to 85 kWh of power, I'm assuming. Could very well be well above 100 kWh in reality, 'cause it gives 1000 km in economical conditions.
Anyway--
Today a fuel-cell electric vehicle with 1 kg of hydrogen can drive approximately 60 miles, compared to conventional vehicles, which get about 25 miles on a gallon of gasoline. With continued technology improvement, the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) is working to increase that fuel efficiency up to nearly 100 miles on 1 kg of hydrogen.Hydrogen’s Role in Transportation
Hydrogen can store and deliver clean energy for many uses across U.S. economic sectors, including transportation.www.energy.gov
So, yeah, 100 miles on 1 kg, ie, $2 per kg. For 10 bucks, you do 1600 km? Dude... You really cannot argue this shit. It's a no-brainer.
It's not efficient enough. Excess energy is typically lost. A solar power plant produces a lot of excess energy, and you can utilize 100% of it efficiently if you are the one controlling the usage, ie, producing and compressing H2.
Another problem with this excess energy is, people are not necessarily charging their cars with it, 'cause they are typically at work at the time. And work chargers could be more expensive. And when charging their car, they do it at night using other forms of energy production like gas turbines or large, very expensive battery reservoirs.
The real reason why H2 is cheaper in the long term is because renewable power can be used up to its maximum efficiency.
Cost figures for H2 in $ are BS, because they don't allow for subsidies and the amount of non-green H2 in the mix. What I have provided is actual kWh/kg, which is irrefutable engineering maths. hydrogen compression alone requires 8.6kWh/kg even for isentropic compression.
A World Of Energy - Hydrogen Compression
Hydrogen is generally produced at low pressure but used or dispensed at high pressure, requiring intermediate compression
www.awoe.net
At £0.30/kWh (UK electricity cost), that's £2.58. But wait it gets worse:
So actually it takes 8.6kWh/(0.92x0.56) = 16.7kWh/kg just to compress. At £0.30/kWh that's £5/kg.
Electrolysis of water - Wikipedia
So to produce and compress 1kg of hydrogen takes 53+16.7 = ~70kWh. That's for 180km in a Mirai under unrealistic conditions, or 70/(1000/5.6)x100 = 39.2kWh/100km. A Tesla Model 3 is 13.2kWh/100km. So with Uk electricity prices:
Mirai = 39.2 x 28.17p = £11.04
Tesla = 13.2 x 28.17p = £3.72
Your $2/kg figure is utter bollox unless you can tell me right now where I can buy 70kWh of electricity for £1.57 (i.e. 2.25p/kWh). Tell me now and I will change my electricity supplier here and now.
This also doesn't include the costs of transporting and storing H2, which is massive. Bottom line, H2 is shit for cars!
Also 1 gallon of diesel gets >100km.
10 Most Economical Diesel Cars of 2024
Looking for a diesel car with great fuel efficiency? Here, our experts bring together a selection of the most economical diesel cars for 2024.