Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions

[Shajida Khan]

Well while I share your anger of loss of men....Imagine the anger and pain of the armed forces????? Imagine what goes thru the company who is at the spot??? They lost their own men...Their own colleague... their own friend,buddy....You think they are happy to put 4 men life as a pawn before bringing the house ???

Our guys walk in a tight rope......

I guess they are restricted unnecessarily. When Pakistan for instance went to route its own terrorists, they used fighter jets to bomb entire villages out of existance. I guess our forces are still required to ask the northern command before even using a grenade.

 

[randomradio]

The message India is sending to world is right now very simple. We don't care about our security.

Actually, we do care about our security. So does the US, Russia, Israel, Iran etc. But a country survives only by being sensible. That's why none of these countries are dead yet. By your standards, Iran and Israel should have gone to war already. But even with nukes, Israel has not done anything to Iran, even though Iranians have been killing Israelis quite consistently.

We have plenty of ways to punish Pakistan without getting hurt ourselves in the process, so we should exercise those options first. War is quite literally the last resort, after all other options have failed, we are not there yet.

 

[Guynextdoor]

But MBS making this statement that Pakistan will be eastern guard of Greater Middle East during this stressful environment, isnt strange??

he needs to secure his own position. Pak forces participate in multiple ummah operations. Plus he wants to put something over Iran. Understandable posturing.

 

[Shajida Khan]

he needs to secure his own position. Pak forces participate in multiple ummah operations. Plus he wants to put something over Iran. Understandable posturing.

is he still visiting India? Indian government should snub him.

 

[sid4587]

jung lag gayi hai hamare logo me, jab kayi dashak beet jayein yudh ko to yahi haal hota hai. USA bina matlab kahi na kahi bhejta rahta hai taki pata chalta rahe yudh hota kya hai. hamare log bhul gaye hain........jung lag gayi hai, afsos ki kuch cm kum pad gaye

 

[Guynextdoor]

is he still visiting India? Indian government should snub him.

No. He should be welcome. They have actually been very good with us on oil. Plus they play a double game. If they want to generally stay out, we should let them and play the perception game. After he leaves we should let loose.

 

[Hellfire]

We have more than 80 Harops already ... as per what public sources indicate.

I stand corrected.

Government approves 54 killer drones from Israel for Indian Air Force

Seems around 110. Then the previous Harpy also.

From Saudi Prince MBS press conference : " We will make greater Middle East and Pakistan will be eastern guard of Greater Middle East"

That, of course, is aimed at Iran. Amusing to note that the Pakistanis fail to understand that they are a mere pawn who appear to have nudged some kind of action in Iran on the eve of MBS' visit, thereby trying to indicate their 'steadfast support' to the Gulf Kingdom, especially since both SA and UAE are literally bailing their economy out of the hole (although I have no illusions that the bankrolling of nukes by SA is being undertaken here), and on the backs of it, they initiated a strike within India in order to thumb their noses at India and the narrative of isolation as being forwarded by GoI (which, in the words of a Pakistani member on twitter, can not be isolated as they have sought money from a number of nations ) thereby putting PM Modi in a spot wherein he is faced with a stark choice of undertaking an over action or risk losing the elections.

Further, they clearly seem to have calculated that our opposition will be stupid enough to raise doubts on timing of any action by PM Modi in retaliation as being aimed at garnering 'votes' , a narrative that is being pushed on online forums in garb of 'Indians' comments on various topics.

Today the Taliban has claimed inability to attend the conference in Islamabad at the last minute, and yet the Pakistanis fail to see that the same may have been a fallout of the attack on Iran and the backing Taliban has from Iran lately. With India too being attacked, Taliban will be stupid to have the two - Iran and India, take them on side of Pakistan.

Like I said, we will fight Pakistan till the last Pakistani. They are their own worst enemy! Time to pull out the popcorn. They are going to be pushed to the limit this time, at our time, at our place of choice and at our level of escalation.

Every single part of their military, intelligence, and civilian population has to bleed and suffer immeasurably for this. Open up the gates of hell on them, give them Lanjote, Peshawar and Mehran a million times over.

Like I said, we will not undertake a journey along their path, something that even PM Modi has overtly said the other day. Instead, we will allow their own to take them down, that has a class and irony of it's own.

I suspect that they have just created conditions for a new country of Baluchistan .... albeit, with Iran as an agreeable party.

 

[Hellfire]

Is IAF getting ready for a strike at Jaish targets in Pakistan?

IAF is always ready, they could have struck within 30 minutes of the attack itself.

Gazi is trapped in encounter and we still didn't blow up the house instead let 4 of our soldiers die. What a strategy, bravo.

That happens, when you have to limit collateral damage. I narrated to @nair my own personal dilemma while we were ambushed in a convoy with heavy fire on our vehicle and we being pinned down in it, of taking a kill (am sure of my fire) with a slight risk of killing a small child/children (and opening up my vehicle to potential grenade/fire attacks as I removed the protecting barriers of varied nature in my vehicle) or letting the militant slip away to be killed another day (killed 3 days later without any casualty of any kind, civilian or military, as a SF team was on his heels from that day forward).

It happens, there is nothing much that can be done about it. Sometimes of sheer bad luck, other times, out of the slightest of mistake that proves too costly for you.

Here's another traitor to join the list.

Why India is not holding plebiscite in Kashmir, asks Kamal Haasan | News - Times of India Videos

Start boycotting his movies, but our South Indian citizens may not be too enthusiastic of that.

There has to be an economic cost. People are screaming for war. But, with what objective?

1. Will a war stop Pakistan from sending jihadis?
2. Will it stop giving them protection?
3. Will it result in any advancement of goals?
4. What is our long term objective?
5. What is a cost, which makes life miserable for the opponent?

Answers
1. No
2. No
3. This depends on our long term objective.
4. Reclaiming of Jammu & Kashmir, including territory from China.
5. This cost has to be borne by the PA and the political establishment. The people of Pakistan will be collateral damage. The quicker we come to this realisation, that there will be collateral damage the more efficient will be our response.

I would recommend going for a slicing strategy across PoK, starting from southern areas, north west of Jammu. Specifically, the Mangla dam area, Mirpur district. This dam controls the irrigation to a lot of the Pak projects. In the first move, bring this area under our control. Do not escalate it to other areas, unless Pak decides. Once occupied, do not return the area and claim as our own.

Once achieved, this brings the tiny finger area which portrudes into India, north of Jammu into picture. Capture of this area will reduce the ability to PA to target Jammu.

This will ensure, we are not crossing the IB, yet taking back territory. It also creates a rupture in the belief of the Pak occupied Kashmiris, the PA cannot defend them. Allow existing residents to exit over to other parts of PoK and re-populate the area with Kashmiri Pandits.

Will comment a week from now. Not now.

 

[Shajida Khan]

No. He should be welcome. They have actually been very good with us on oil. Plus they play a double game. If they want to generally stay out, we should let them and play the perception game. After he leaves we should let loose.

You cannot do two things.

On one hand you say that you want to isolate Pakistan and yet you put red carpet for the person who has just now snubbed you by visiting Pakistan.

Because of such kind of schizophrenic message, likes of SAARC are unlikely to agree.
Saarc nations may not agree on India’s efforts to isolate Pakistan

“India is looking at a statement from Saarc countries to denounce terrorism from countries in the region. It would be difficult to find support to suspend Pakistan from the grouping."

The reason is simple: "Isolating Pakistan" is itself a crazy goal and when you yourself are not serious about it, why will others take it seriously?

From the looks of it, this entire thing is looking like following :

1. BJP does not want to 'waste' time on this any further. They have more important goal: to look like as if they are generating more jobs and catering to regional issues. Its election time after all. Modi and government are no longer in power. Things are run according to party's election agenda. Further, they have "given full authority" to Indian forces. Meaning nothing. Military in india cannot do a damn outside india unless political will is there to back it. So, you will see some encounters but nothing else concrete. Simply put, the rulers don't have time to invest there. I guess they either have data or they believe that military or security matters do not matter to the public and dole outs determine the election results.

2. Opposition parties have also understood this. So they have taken a rather interesting stance. They "fully support" government. Bascially it means, if any action is taken, they will claim it as their as well or atleast "India's victory" and NOT "BJP's action". That said, incase of a miss-fire they will simply put whole blame on BJP. Further, in case of no action, it will be used as a tool to bring Modi's popularity down.

So net-net: Most probably nothing will be done, some kind of propaganda will be made or some token action will be done. Economic actions are joke anyways. They were taken because you have to give some kind of reaction. So easiest and lamest actions were taken. The only issue is, do people in India will react to non-action as BJP is thinking they will : ie "We don't care". It may be a massive mis-calculation or may be it is the truth. I honestly don't know.

 

[Paro]

2. Opposition parties have also understood this. So they have taken a rather interesting stance. They "fully support" government. Bascially it means, if any action is taken, they will claim it as their as well or atleast "India's victory" and NOT "BJP's action". That said, incase of a miss-fire they will simply put whole blame on BJP. Further, in case of no action, it will be used as a tool to bring Modi's popularity down.

No one is talking about revenge anymore after the All-party meeting, Meaning something was shared among them and all of them agreed to change the narrative by not dragging the issue any further.

 

[Shajida Khan]

No one is talking about revenge anymore after the All-party meeting, Meaning something was shared among them and all of them agreed to change the narrative and not drag the issue any further.

Oh well, they will use this as a tool. At the right time. After all, it is the best thing to hit Modi's strong leader image. As far as I understand the statements will come; weirdly enough; from BJP's own leaders. Likes of Shratughan Sinha. When you become powerful and face, you also make many enemies in your own team.

And you know what? It may have been pre-thought-out strategy from ISI and its new Chief. Hit India at a time when leaders are too busy to take an action. It will give morale boost to terrorism in Kashmir and may form a template for future offensive against India. It is a new data point after all. A calculated risk with decent rewards. Interestingly, Imran Khan also mentioned something of this kind: Near Election time, Indian government is completely inactive.

 

[Guynextdoor]

You cannot do two things.

On one hand you say that you want to isolate Pakistan and yet you put red carpet for the person who has just now snubbed you by visiting Pakistan.

Because of such kind of schizophrenic message, likes of SAARC are unlikely to agree.
Saarc nations may not agree on India’s efforts to isolate Pakistan


The reason is simple: "Isolating Pakistan" is itself a crazy goal and when you yourself are not serious about it, why will others take it seriously?

From the looks of it, this entire thing is looking like following :

1. BJP does not want to 'waste' time on this any further. They have more important goal: to look like as if they are generating more jobs and catering to regional issues. Its election time after all. Modi and government are no longer in power. Things are run according to party's election agenda. Further, they have "given full authority" to Indian forces. Meaning nothing. Military in india cannot do a damn outside india unless political will is there to back it. So, you will see some encounters but nothing else concrete. Simply put, the rulers don't have time to invest there. I guess they either have data or they believe that military or security matters do not matter to the public and dole outs determine the election results.

2. Opposition parties have also understood this. So they have taken a rather interesting stance. They "fully support" government. Bascially it means, if any action is taken, they will claim it as their as well or atleast "India's victory" and NOT "BJP's action". That said, incase of a miss-fire they will simply put whole blame on BJP. Further, in case of no action, it will be used as a tool to bring Modi's popularity down.

So net-net: Most probably nothing will be done, some kind of propaganda will be made or some token action will be done. Economic actions are joke anyways. They were taken because you have to give some kind of reaction. So easiest and lamest actions were taken. The only issue is, do people in India will react to non-action as BJP is thinking they will : ie "We don't care". It may be a massive mis-calculation or may be it is the truth. I honestly don't know.

You should look at it from his perspective. Assume that France asks India to boycott Italy....Some countries will be more invested in this than others. This is a hindu vs muslim issue ONLY for people in Pak and some frienge element in India. In reality other countries believe this is between us. Their objective will be limited intervention until it doesn't hurt them. I don't think Saudi/ UAE/ Iran really have an interest between us. If we play it diplomatically we can get their support or keep to be silent when we need it (say if we carry out an operation). Overplaying our hand will make us look childish.

 

[RATHORE]

I suspect that they have just created conditions for a new country of Baluchistan .... albeit, with Iran as an agreeable party.

Long been a proponent of that, convince Iran to cooperate to that end and in exchange help make sure that the fire doesn't spread to Sistan & Baluchestan.

What do you think about this new Pashtun Movement that's picking up, with Afghanistan & India both beginning to lose patience w/ Pak and America reducing its role/presence there.

 

[Butter Chicken]

I doubt Iran will collaborate in creating a free Balochistan. They have their own problems in Sistan-Balochistan

 

[Shajida Khan]

You should look at it from his perspective. Assume that France asks India to boycott Italy....Some countries will be more invested in this than others. This is a hindu vs muslim issue ONLY for people in Pak and some frienge element in India. In reality other countries believe this is between us. Their objective will be limited intervention until it doesn't hurt them. I don't think Saudi/ UAE/ Iran really have an interest between us. If we play it diplomatically we can get their support or keep to be silent when we need it (say if we carry out an operation). Overplaying our hand will make us look childish.

It is more of a question of timing too. Russia did the same during Uri attack but their message was clear: You have been leaning towards US a lot, and yes, we can shift our feets too. Here, MBS's visit to Pakistan and India's red carpet to him tells us this: We (SA) are not going to change our plans because of your stupid situations; to which India responded; "Don't worry, we don't take it seriously either". It sends wrong message to all of the other nations you are trying to ask to consider reducing their trades with Pakistan.

Now if we were not serious about it to being with, then we should better shut up and dont issue ridiculous claims like "Isolation of Pakistan"! Those look really childish.

 

[Hellfire]

Long been a proponent of that, convince Iran to cooperate to that end and in exchange help make sure that the fire doesn't spread to Sistan & Baluchestan.

What do you think about this new Pashtun Movement that's picking up, with Afghanistan & India both beginning to lose patience w/ Pak and America reducing its role/presence there.

Let us see. I am a strong proponent of not making a threat if you are unwilling to act on it, something that PM Modi has done in recent past.

I doubt Iran will collaborate in creating a free Balochistan. They have their own problems in Sistan-Balochistan

Actually it may solve their problem. With a joint Indo-Iranian guarantee and support, the local Baluchs will have enough incentive to develop a nation in present day Baluchistan itself.

 

[R!cK]

Pulwama attack mastermind Abdul Rasheed Ghazi killed by security forces in Kashmir
Monday, February 18, 2019

In a big breakthrough, security forces on Monday gunned down top Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) commander Abdul Rasheed Ghazi alias Kamran, in a 12-hour-long encounter with multiple JeM terrorists in Pulwama area.

Ghazi was a Pakistani national and the brain behind the Pulwama attack.

TOI had reported on Sunday that Ghazi may still be in the Valley.

Pulwama attack mastermind Abdul Rasheed Ghazi killed by security forces in Kashmir - Times of India ►

 

[Shajida Khan]

Let us see. I am a strong proponent of not making a threat if you are unwilling to act on it, something that PM Modi has done in recent past.

As I said before, I only wish our leaders to have some wisdom. I guess, the entire foreign policy and defence right now is on autopilot. This is why all very nebulous statements and actions are coming. There isn't a clear directive to take a definitive action. The political leadership wants to focus elsewhere.

 

[Guynextdoor]

It is more of a question of timing too. Russia did the same during Uri attack but their message was clear: You have been leaning towards US a lot, and yes, we can shift our feets too. Here, MBS's visit to Pakistan and India's red carpet to him tells us this: We (SA) are not going to change our plans because of your stupid situations; to which India responded; "Don't worry, we don't take it seriously either". It sends wrong message to all of the other nations you are trying to ask to consider reducing their trades with Pakistan.

Now if we were not serious about it to being with, then we should better shut up and dont issue ridiculous claims like "Isolation of Pakistan"! Those look really childish.

Isolation of Pakistan is a very good stand to take.
a) Historically many deals have been signed nothing has converted into money for them
b) we have managed to make progress of FTFA
c) Indo- Pak trade is very important for essentials

The only issue here is that our 'definiton' of islotaion is different from theirs. At half of this effect we'd have been trying to get back to mainstream. They have no problems being isolated because poor people take the brunt. We can't he,p their attitude.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Actually it may solve their problem. With a joint Indo-Iranian guarantee and support, the local Baluchs will have enough incentive to develop a nation in present day Baluchistan itself.

I doubt it. China has invested heavily in there. They will do their absolute best to protect their leased port and investment. They can dictate rules to PA/PAF/PN/ISI.