Yes i also checked...maybe this Sanyasi guy is mad... I was saying harpy bcz Hoopoes is National bird of Israel and we are not buying any other aircraft/drone from Israel
Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Seiko
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Will India attack or can they attack Pakistan if PA put masood behind bars??
Wars are for First World countries and irrational despots. This is the truth.
For a country like India, we first need an economic base or we will lose the country to even small problems like rationing.
Now, if we go to war, let's not make the assumption that it will never go nuclear, we need a system akin to a Nazi level martial law where any dissent is crushed through the use of force, so that there are no calls for separatism from certain pockets in India. And then, food and water will be rationed, most communication systems would only be for short messages to be used in emergencies, so no internet, no cellphone network etc. The current way of life in most cities will come to a halt. If the Indian public can accept this, we can go to war immediately.
Just our luck that we have irrational Third World despots as neighbours, so we have had the unfortunate privilege of actually fighting a few wars. India has always fought wars when wars were forced upon. Never has India been an aggressor, and this is because we have made the sensible decision of not taking such a step.
People in India are angry right now, hence the calls for war and whatnot. But the problem is, as @Falcon has pointed out many times, Pakistan is doing a better job of killing itself without India having to do a thing. Let's not become the excuse they need to unit against India.
Pakistan is imploding. Think about it, over the next 5 years Pak's GDP is not expected to grow more than 4%. Even with low oil prices, they have a severe BoP crisis. And in return, Pak's population growth is as high as ever. Their population growth is twice that of India's and their GDP growth is expected to be half of India's. This country has no real future. So this is where we should really focus on. We need to deny them the ability to bounce back.
We most definitely need revenge attacks, and I'm sure the forces are already planning it out. But attacking your own country and countrymen only because you want something to happen to your standards just to satiate your own anger should come to an end.
If you really want to hurt Pakistan, you have to think up ways that can actually bring them all the hurt you can without getting hurt yourself. India is too big and powerful to have 'fair fight' as the only option.
It's a First World privilege, which we do not yet have.
People in big cities in India will not understand why their daily dose of food and water is coming to them in military trucks and why they have to stand in line for hours to get it, when just 2 days ago they got all of it from supermarkets. Rationing is yet an alien concept in the cities of India. So we have plenty of individuals here who will prey on people's ignorance.
Your ego is satisfied.... And masood azhar floats a new charity organisation and continue killing kaffurs
I've always maintained that the truest way a counter insurgency is to be fought is by initiating similar steps in the patron nation behind such terrorist outrages in our country.
What are the steps we've undertaken in this regard? Pakistan is on the boil. Have we bothered to shore up support for the Balochi freedom fighters? If the Pakistanis are even half right about Kulbushan Jadhav , it was a botched up op.
What about our support to the MQM? What about our support to the resistance within PoK among the Gilgit Baltistanis? What about our support to the TTP? I've been given to understand from what I've read online that the Indian security establishment is averse to dealing with radical Islamic groups. Hence, all such work has been outsourced to the NDS.
If this is the state of affairs with respect to our espionage agencies, why blame Pakistan for assuming they'd get away lightly for they have been doing so everytime.
Finally, please do not throw statistics about the Pakistani economy. That they are up shit creek without a paddle for sometime now is known. What's also known is they'd be in deeper shit as time goes by.
Rather the question you ought to be framing is - Does it rally matter to the powers that be there? No it doesn't. Why ? Coz it's a rhetorical question.
The military elite having co opted the bureaucracy, the judiciary and the civilian political leadership will continue to thrive in less than ideal circumstances than they would have liked but they will thrive for the foreseeable future. By using the carrot and in most cases the stick. By unleashing extreme reppression like they did on the streets of Karachi a while ago , in Balochchistan like they've been doing for a long time and presently in FATA as well as KPK & shortly in the Northern Areas.And what's more it's being yielding positive results. Look at where the MQM is today. Look at the statistics for terrorist acts by the TTP in Pakistan for the past two years and compare it with what it used to be around 6-7 years ago. You'd get your answer. If it's your point that these are temporary steps which involves kicking the can down the road for the problems thus thrown up will come back to bite the establishment in their backside a few years from now, may I ask ehst are we doing to make this probability into a possibility?
What has been our response to prey on these ever present & widening faultlines within Pakistan? Negligible.
They've already got the GoA in a tight spot. Very soon, it's going to be end game for the regime in Kabul once the US starts withdrawing and a sense of deja vu. PA would get the strategic depth they require in Afghanistan and we're going to see the 90's being re enacted in Kashmir.
In that respect, one has to give credit to the Russians and particularly the Iranians. They've already opened up lines of communications and possibly hold some leverage with the Taliban too. Are we acting in concert with these powers to safeguard our interest ? No we are not. We've always deferred to the US w.r.t Afghanistan who always kept Pakistani sensitivities in mind about Indian participation in Afghanistan. Look where has it got us.
More than 5 days are passed since attack, still people are taking out marches, voluntary protests, nothing organized or large scale. Few people start and it become a rally automatically. Even today 4 such marches, never seen this much pan India anger, there was no such march for Uri or Pathankot. We can't take it.
If anything goes wrong I fear there will be riots and terror supporters will be burned alive, police patrolling is increased, so far no incident of harassment of anyone but I doubt with this much anger they can hold it if anything goes wrong.
If anything goes wrong I fear there will be riots and terror supporters will be burned alive, police patrolling is increased, so far no incident of harassment of anyone but I doubt with this much anger they can hold it if anything goes wrong.
You dont plan a war overnight. FM SAM Makenshaw took six months to plan 1971 war. Indira wanted him to attack in March itself with just 10 days lead time.
aaj to ambush nahi tha na, fir aaj 5-0 ke score se pahale kyu nahi udaya ghar ko? katta thama ke bole hain modiji ki khuli chhut de di hai?
The GoA is not so weak that they cannot continue fighting without US help. All the fighting happening since the last few years has been entirely done by the ANA. So they are going to hold on to power for quite a long time. You are too quick to dismiss the GoA. They are better funded, better trained and have more manpower than the Taliban. Yeah, they need a change in their tactics and strategy, but they are the one that are ahead.
The Iranians and Russians, unfortunately for them, share their borders with Taliban controlled areas, which is not a problem for India. So, while others have interest in talking to the Taliban, we simply have to defer our judgement to the GoA, which we are already doing. Our position is we will toe the GoA's line.
A major advantage of the American withdrawal is the Pakistanis will no longer maintain leverage over supplies to NATO forces in Afghanistan. This would mean financial action can be taken against Pakistan by the Americans and NATO. ANA's supplies can come in from Russia and India through Central Asia and Iran resply.
So the Afghan front is fine for at least the short term.
As for Pakistan, we need a revenge attack for sure. This should be the minimum. But we need an attack that humiliates them more than it hurts them physically. Because we need to hurt their national psyche. It's their pride that has to be brought down first. As you have pointed out, it's their elites who matter. That's why hurting the country physically is pointless. So the only real way to hurt them would be to attack their pride, which puts pressure on the elites from the Pakistani people to react to the said attack. Their inaction will make it clear to the Pakistanis that they cannot hurt India.
Once their morale is broken, we should follow that up with an assault on their economy. Make their current conditions worse, which means we need the assistance of other countries, particularly the US and EU. We should do everything we can to ensure their dollar trade dries up. Imran Khan is already talking about getting people to use wood to cook, so we should do what we can that will ensure their oil bill becomes unaffordable. Then the people themselves will further destabilise their own country.
We should create conditions where the aftermath is one where all we have to do is eat popcorn and watch. War won't get this result.
The problem at the time was East Pakistan, not West Pakistan, an entirely different front.
But shouldn't we already have multiple plans in place for today's Pakistan?
What do you think on what TSD did ?? Do you think they didnt got their hand dirty and outsourced their work to someone??
Dear sir, could you confirm that a military response is inevitable and that something is cooking. We don’t mind patience but only on one condition that this time we will not present other cheek which will get slapped one more time.
Thanks in advance
I think this is related to our trifurcation of the state....they wanted all of J&K. We just cut out Ladak and Jammu does not support separatsm. We just *censored*ed them and made 'kashmir revolution' a fight for Bangalore airport. @vstol Jockey
Yes. But it seems to me that they wanted to capture them alive. Otherwise there is no question of close combat with these guys. Army just blows up the house.
Todays Pakistan is as ripe as East Pakistan. Sindh and Baluchistan are our new Mukti Bahini and so are Pastuns. Wait. We are going to derecognise Durand Line.
This time it will be final battle and no Nukes. Trust me. NO NUKES.
Things have changed. Modi can't face elections without a strong action against Pakistan. Shiv Sena backing down today is a clear indication.
No point in trying to show any more proof. Show that there are economic costs for acting against Indian interests. Proof will suddenly appear in front of the Chinese government.
Strength is Strength.
Thank you...that’s a relief that this time it will different. Every single day I am reading all defence forum, twitter handles to get a some hint of an impending strong response.
Desperation of people like me reflects in my questioning my hindu identity for the first time.
Is it the hindu character that we have all along sought for an antidote of venom in nectar. Hope not any more this time.