Why the ISI Markhor dp..? You are one rabble rouser..
Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions
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The police has said the militant was from Pakistan, right or wrong this has provided enough excuse to hit shitistan .by the time probe is over no body will be interested in knowing whether the man was kashmiri jehadi or baki rats.the excuse has been provided ,the only thing required now is a determined leadership otherwise it will continue and we will be picking dead bodies. as @BlackOpsIndia has said it's better to provide a rip button as things will go out like this.
Only and only if people in the govt were as capable as some people here tries to portray them.
Only and only if people in the govt were as capable as some people here tries to portray them.
Why the ISI Markhor dp..? You are one rabble rouser..
If I am correct then it seems GoI has closed a deal with Pakistan and come and brought Pakistanis on negotiation that it will be govt to govt affair without targetting civilins in rest of India and Pakistan. You can see now, its fixed to Kashmir unlike in 90's and previous decade now no major strike. It's a fixed match. They will allow India to do a fixed sixers and India will allow them to to hit few fours.
I would say, the change with current Indian government is, India has brought them on the table. But the Pakistanis are also clever, Pulwama was as per the deal but it wasn't controlled. Now after 27th Feb 2019, seems that will be controlled as well and negotiated or already negotiated.
Now it's like Doval saying: "you do one more Pulwama you might lose POK."
Thanks for the validation, punk. It was sorely needed. After all that's why I posted a comparison on the economies there . So that I feel good about the economy irrespective of the 5-7 soldiers we lose as collateral damage, every now & then.
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Sometimes I am appalled at the narrative you try to build. This govt has increased the cost to pakistan and especially to PA and that is the main reason why rest of India is free of terror as of now. The turning point was Pathankot and Uri set in motion a definitive action plan. few days back we had taken out two of their senior officers, one Maj. Gen and another Brig. They had been looking to avenge it and they lured the CO and killed him.
I have for very long maintained that the solution to Kashmir is not in India but in Pakistan and we have to take out Pakistan once and for all. The feeling in the present Govt is also same. But we need to be in proper shape to do it and thanks to 10yrs of UPA, we were left unfit for major battles and fit for only COIN.
Forward deployment and offensive defense has been our policy right from the days of Lord Ram. Takhshila city was created as a forward cantt by Taksh who was son of Bharat, the younger brother of Lord Ram. Lahore by Luv and Kasur by Kush. Even during the times of Chanakya, this policy was in force. Bappa Rawal also followed the same policy when he established Rawalpindi and Rawalakot. The same was the policy during the times of Prithviraj when the kings of central India supported the kings of the border areas in battles. This was unwritten code was broken by Jaichand and we had muslim invasions starting from 1196 onwards. Once Punjab and Delhi was lost, Rajputs created a confederacy which defeated Delhi Sultanate in every battle. It was after the break up of this confederacy that we started waiting for the enemy to encircle us in our forts and forced us to fight a battle till death. This change in mindset was responsible for losing nearly everybattle till second battle of Panipat. Rao Hemu did not fight any battle sitting in a fort and instead went out to fight his battles in areas where he had the advantage. Same was the case with Maharana Pratap, Jaats, Marathas and especially Peshwa Bajirao Vallad Bhatt.
What we are witnessing in Kashmir is return to Fort warfare. This fencing along the LOC has fooled us more than having any deterrent effect on PA. It is as foolish as the Maginot line and Bar Lev Line. It has instilled a false sense of security. We need to return back to the way our ancestors looked at the security of India. Forward offensive defensive deployment and fast and lightening strikes across the borders of our enemies. Even the British used the same tactics against Afghans when they created forwrd catanments which went to Pakistan after partition and gave them an edge over India as we were left with cantonments which were far inside our own territory. I will still go for raids across borders, all across IB and LOC to teach Pakistan a lesson. We have the strength and financial power, they do not have it. and we must resort to the Maratha and Jaat ways of warfare-Dhaadh Yudh.
Haven't we gone thru all this before on these very pages? Or were you absent out here when Pulwama occurred & the mood out here as well as in the rest of the country was pretty ugly? Weren't these discussions held then? What came out of it?
In case you were missing, make yourself useful, make the search engine here your ally & go thru those pages. Or make a note of all those events where we lost a few our men particularly up in the hierarchy and check out the discussions out here.
It follows the same pattern . The same outrage, followed by the same breast beating, followed by the same suggestions, the same name calling, etc Up until the next such incident. Till we have another major incident like Pulwama. For which, as of now, we seem to have a template as to what retribution would look like. Not for the many minor Pulwamas we see occurring in the span of a year.
Modernisation of infantry equipment is an on going process. But in areas or for units involved in any type of combat should have access to top notch world class equipment no matter what. And it won't be a lot actually.
Saw some pictures on twitter, units still have Bren , patka , obsolete heavy bpjs, etc. Focus should be here.
Top notch best equipment available off the shelf on emergency basis before a single penny is spent on anything else in India.
Saw some pictures on twitter, units still have Bren , patka , obsolete heavy bpjs, etc. Focus should be here.
Top notch best equipment available off the shelf on emergency basis before a single penny is spent on anything else in India.
In this incident, It was an ambush/Trap. So please do not comment on the way IA conducts its operations.
Its an error in judgement, probably due to the confounding factors of the situation which none of us is in a position to appreciate/comment over.
I would not fret over this too much. Happens.
The only thing is that when a unit takes a hit in form of losing a Commanding Officer, it hits the morale of the troops. That is why, sometimes, as a CO, you have to sit back and let others act.
There is only one other person whose death can shatter a units morale and who is, perhaps, more protected than the CO of a unit there - the Medical Officer of the unit.
The soldier protects the medical officer of the unit more than even CO. I once asked the men why. They said, if they get hit, the Medical Officer will save them. But if he/she gets hit, who will save them? So, for men, their lives are worth protecting the Medical Officer. A JCO once told me that if the Medical Officer is lost, the soldiers will to fight takes a severe beating.
Holds.
No direct or indirect comments on rules of engagement. Only saying we can and we should afford the best available out there for 50-60k men presently actively involved in anti terror operations.
Well that's a collective work of military and others. That's why I mentioned specifically that this govt has brought Pakistan on the table, Indian's own terms and condition and issue of terrorism and not Kashmir. Which the previous government failed to achieve.
To be frank, India was facing trouble times in it's own land and non sincere tries led to such problem. I don't rule out that such an idea of wasting millions on the barbed wires and not implementing whatever you said was an insider's job to support Islamabad. It took India to abolish A370, full 70 years, India couldnt move a leaf in it's own territory for 70 years. So you can imagine how many things went wrong in previous years. And then came the question of India pakistan being nuclear states. Even as of today there are people who will strictly advice government not to even think about Dhaad Yudh. And majority of them would be from Group A and Commissioned officers in Military.
Other problem is lack of inputs from POK and across LOC. Unless until there is proper tradecraft across LC all Military moves are ought to fail and that's not a rocket science. What IMHO I believe Pakistan has better info of Kashmir than India has on POJK. Again the reasons are same.
If that be the case, how are we hitting them with pin point accuracy in POJK? Who supported us in Lahore and sialkot in 1965 or in 1971 in western front? We did have support of Mukti Bahini in East but our thrusts were not hampered by lack of knowledge of terrain in West Pakistan.
Now we have better Humit and Satellites to do things like Balakot.
There used to be a debate on this topic which has since lapsed. This debate was initiated by the much lamented, discredited Pravin Sawhney supported to a large extent by PKS. It was on the war fighting abilities of the IA. The debate was essentially around how in the past 30 years, continuous CI operations across the country particularly J&K has worn down the IA , debilitated their operational efficacy & efficiency as a war fighting force & limited their strategic thinking into believing that large scale operations like the 1971 war or battle set pieces like the Battle of the Bulge, Kursk, Stalingrad etc out of WW-2 were passe with the emphasis being more on CI & at the most CS type of operations involving rapid mobilisation for shallow thrusts across the border to hold territory under the overhang of N weapons until the eventual & inevitable foreign intervention enforced cease fire pending negotiations.
He also argued strongly for an exclusive CI force like RR to be completely divorced operationally & doctrinewise from the IA exclusively under the command of the MHA leaving the IA & the RM / MoD to focus exclusively on manning the border , strategize, procure accordingly & sharpen their war fighting abilities. Apparently all these continuous CI operations has affected the scheduling of war drills / exercises & the R&R schedules of the IA too. I'm increasingly coming around to agreeing with them that the IA as of today is like the ubiquitous potato in our cuisine. You can utilize it as you like except for the primary & exclusive task it was supposed to undertake.
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And so? Your economic verbal vitriol makes sense? I do not want to be seen fighting with Indian members on this issue when we should be united. Let's just say I disagree with your way of coping up our losses.
Those times were different, Indians were patriotic you have to take this in account as well. In 1971 free hand was given to every institution do anything and achieve the target. Now days, there is neither the target nor the consensus.
To a limited distance only. The info gathering is very limited. Magnifically, Pakistan knows every corner street and baniya and every chowk in Kashmir. They know who are the sympathisers. That's why those alpha beta gamas enter on foot , reach their destination get local support just like India used to get from Mukti Bahanis.
Pakistan has created their Mukti Vahani version 2 in Kashmir, thats why narey baazi and pathar baazi continues, but India has not done the similar in POJK. Because you are not sure about the objectives.
I suggest that you go thru in detail the topography of POJK and read a bit about mountain warfare. Few choke points are enough to contral a large mountanous terrain. Learn from Marathas. But the most important requirement is logistics for holding operations. And between India and Pakistan, whom do you think has better logistics?
30000 ft view:
India cannot do anything significant as regards to pok until the US has significant troop presence in Afghanistan. Pakistan knows this, and that's why Musharraf was emboldened to attack Indian parliament. India can defend politically and militarily against China while attacking Pakistan. But, also having to defend against US pressure is a different ball game.
Fortunately coronavirus is speeding up history. The US plan to handover Afghanistan to Pakistan puppet Taliban(and secure their interests in Afghanistan via Pakistan) is falling apart. India would prefer civil war conditions in Afghanistan, than a taliban dominated Afghanistan. The US has taken an enormous economic hit due to covid. And this is only the start.. The US homeland has been ravaged like no conventional war against Russia or China ever could. This is the worst hit the US has taken from an external agent in a hundred years. And the US would want to exact some cost from China.. This weaker US would hasten its retreat from Afghanistan, and reduce its troop presence to bare minimum levels.. Pakistan would lose a major trump card. Also the northern alliance and anti taliban pashtuns are sufficiently strong to resist Pakistan/Taliban for years with some support from India and Iran.. or someone else.. The US has already front loaded its troop withdrawal. Interesting times ahead..
India cannot do anything significant as regards to pok until the US has significant troop presence in Afghanistan. Pakistan knows this, and that's why Musharraf was emboldened to attack Indian parliament. India can defend politically and militarily against China while attacking Pakistan. But, also having to defend against US pressure is a different ball game.
Fortunately coronavirus is speeding up history. The US plan to handover Afghanistan to Pakistan puppet Taliban(and secure their interests in Afghanistan via Pakistan) is falling apart. India would prefer civil war conditions in Afghanistan, than a taliban dominated Afghanistan. The US has taken an enormous economic hit due to covid. And this is only the start.. The US homeland has been ravaged like no conventional war against Russia or China ever could. This is the worst hit the US has taken from an external agent in a hundred years. And the US would want to exact some cost from China.. This weaker US would hasten its retreat from Afghanistan, and reduce its troop presence to bare minimum levels.. Pakistan would lose a major trump card. Also the northern alliance and anti taliban pashtuns are sufficiently strong to resist Pakistan/Taliban for years with some support from India and Iran.. or someone else.. The US has already front loaded its troop withdrawal. Interesting times ahead..
Dear Falcon and @vstol Jockey , do you (professionals) believe that the unit whose commanding officer has lost will get new one at the same deployed location or will be replaced by another unit?
We can see the rise in terror operations during this COVID-19 situation. Is Pakistan and their backed pigs has a sense of beliefs that India is at its weak.. Second thing, I have seen people from a certain community behaving in a way that is threatening Indian health security. Neither they are understanding appeals and adversaries made by government or administration, nor they have shown any respect to it. Can this be a twin attack from inside and outside. Cant government understand this?
My economic verbal vitriol as you term it was aimed at a particular member, in case you didn't notice it. It was you who jumped in with your two penny gratuitous uncalled for comment. As far as agreement or disagreement goes, it's a subjective matter. Feel free to disengage if it's not worth your while especially if you believe your talents in dispensing much wanted pearls of wisdom can be more productively utilised elsewhere out here.