Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions

[zapper]

News coming in that they are all safe, official announcement still awaited. Don't know why you need to send forces inside the house, just blow up the damn house.

Some reports say two of the trapped men were senior officers. It's very unlikely for senior officers to directly participate in CI ops, that too in the forefront. Probably must've gone for an aftermath visit which looks like a well planned ambush if it's true but it's also kinda lame for not cleaning up prior to the officers visit. Need to wait for accurate official reports

Truth be told, our regular forces kinda suck when it comes to CQB while they're pretty darn good in open terrains. Blowing up buildings is what we've been doing traditionally by cornering terrorists but that approach isn't necessarily taken if they predict significant collateral damage

We really need to up our CQB game across all platforms from police SWAT teams to Special Forces. For instance, most state police forces don't even know how to hold a weapon...let alone firing it in an active-shooter situation. During 26/11, Marcos reached the spot but couldn't encounter the terrorists except for evacuating a few hostages in empty floors where there was no hostile presence. Even the NSG took 3 days to eliminate em. During the Pathankot attack, despite Garuds presence in the IAF base, NSG had to be flown in from Manesar and it literally took us 4 days to eliminate 6 attackers followed by a 5 day clean up op. Our strategy has always been to wear down the enemy and make em run outta ammunition prior to an all-out assault or blowing up the buildings. On that note, even Pakistanis have eliminated way quicker during such attacks like the Peshawar school massacre where SSG eliminated all 6 attackers within a day

 

[safriz]

side effects of surgical strike, disconnected incoherent rambling.
Take care dont lose yourself mentally, its been more than 50 years and nothing has changed. Nothing will change in the future as well.

I agree.
Nothing will change. Kashmiri freedom struggle will continue.

 

[Vicky]

Some reports say two of the trapped men were senior officers. It's very unlikely for senior officers to directly participate in CI ops, that too in the forefront. Probably must've gone for an aftermath visit which looks like a well planned ambush if it's true but it's also kinda lame for not cleaning up prior to the officers visit. Need to wait for accurate official reports

Truth be told, our regular forces kinda suck when it comes to CQB while they're pretty darn good in open terrains. Blowing up buildings is what we've been doing traditionally by cornering terrorists but that approach isn't necessarily taken if they predict significant collateral damage

We really need to up our CQB game across all platforms from police SWAT teams to Special Forces. For instance, most state police forces don't even know how to hold a weapon...let alone firing it in an active-shooter situation. During 26/11, Marcos reached the spot but couldn't encounter the terrorists except for evacuating a few hostages in empty floors where there was no hostile presence. Even the NSG took 3 days to eliminate em. During the Pathankot attack, despite Garuds presence in the IAF base, NSG had to be flown in from Manesar and it literally took us 4 days to eliminate 6 attackers followed by a 5 day clean up op. Our strategy has always been to wear down the enemy and make em run outta ammunition prior to an all-out assault or blowing up the buildings. On that note, even Pakistanis have eliminated way quicker during such attacks like the Peshawar school massacre where SSG eliminated all 6 attackers within a day

And some 180 kids died. Peshawar is a really bad example of a successful commando action.
Whereas I am concerned about our soldiers death during close combat situation, it should be rectified by technology and better equipment. Other than photo ops, not all soldiers are equipped with night vision goggles, wall penetrating radar, hand held positioning system (Army killed the indigenous program in 2009) which tells where are his colleagues exactly preventing friendly fire.

 

[_Anonymous_]

I agree.
Nothing will change. Kashmiri freedom struggle will continue.

Let's see the effect it's had on our economy. From 1989 where we recorded a GDP nominal of USD 300 billion to USD 3 trillion in 2020 . That's a growth of 10 x.

In the same period Paxtan went from USD 52 billion to USD 283 billion . That's less than 6 times growth.

Whereas from being 6 times your GDP figures in 1989 , we're now 10 times bigger than you.

Also do remember we were on the verge of bankruptcy in 1991 where we had to pledge our sovereign gold - the most humiliating experience in our entire post independent existence. Something we promised we'd never repeat. And we have stayed true to our word.

What did Paxtan do in 1989 ? It went to the IMF.
What did Paxtan do in 2019 ? It went to the IMF.

Why 1989 ? It was a epochal year. The year the former SU moved out of Afghanistan & Paxtan declared a victory. It was the year the insurgency in J&K began. It was the year Paxtan justifiably felt that if it could defeat a super power, there wasn't a thing in the world to prevent it from defeating India in a proxy war & take J&K.

Except Kashmiris are no Pashtuns & India isn't the ex SU. 30 years later, you're still trying as you will 30 years from now if you exist as a nation. But what am I saying? Even if Punjabistan is all there's left of what was Paxtan & becomes the new Paxtan, it'd still continue the jihad, as it must .

Now, we realise you'd come up with the same old tired trope of India not prevailing over Paxtan in spite of being 7 times her size & having an economy 10 times hers. But there in lies the nub. Never ever kill a person who's committing suicide.

You see, 1971 wasn't as much as India or Bangladesh defeating Paxtan & carving out half a country as it was about Paxtan losing the plot completely. Incidentally, were there no 1965 , there'd be no 1971.

It's your job to seek shahadat as you can never be a ghazi & prevail over us. It's our job to fulfill your wish & see you off to Jana'ah. Let us both undertake what we're destined to.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256775920091717633

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Our strategy has always been to wear down the enemy and make em run outta ammunition prior to an all-out assault or blowing up the buildings. On that note, even Pakistanis have eliminated way quicker during such attacks like the Peshawar school massacre where SSG eliminated all 6 attackers within a day

What's the hurry if you can wear them down without losing any life. However in difficult terrain these close combat fights must be cleaned up faster because at night it may lead to escaping of terrorists or more casualties on our side.

And some 180 kids died. Peshawar is a really bad example of a successful commando action.
Whereas I am concerned about our soldiers death during close combat situation, it should be rectified by technology and better equipment. Other than photo ops, not all soldiers are equipped with night vision goggles, wall penetrating radar, hand held positioning system (Army killed the indigenous program in 2009) which tells where are his colleagues exactly preventing friendly fire.

It was 150 people not 180. SSG reached the spot within 15 minutes and snipers took out majority of attackers. There were 1100 kids in school, death toll would have been many times if they didn't arrive in time.

Recently when Chinese consulate was attacked they took down the attackers quite early and in other operations too they are successful in killing attackers quite early.


However this is also related to training of attackers. Pakistan extensively train terrorists to hide in houses, take civilians hostages, use them as shield, instead of being a rambo and fighting in open where they will be target practise. Their main aim is to somehow kill one IA soldier so even group of 4 try to hide and ambush even if it means sure death.

The people that attack Pakistan are mostly suicide bombers or cheap Talibani not well trained and only focus on killing as much as possible within first few minutes. They don't wait for forces to arrive and kill them.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256785587274563586

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256786497958604801

 

[lcafanboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256777924516048896

Total 5 personnel killed in action in operations in handwara... RIP To departed souls...

 

[RISING SUN]

It's big loss. Don't understand the nitty gritty of armed ops, have heard lot from brother but so many deaths like these raise questions in our mind on existing SOP.
Rest in peace the falen Soldiers. We will be in your debts forever.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256791174758543360

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256791471467839488

 

[Vicky]

What's the hurry if you can wear them down without losing any life. However in difficult terrain these close combat fights must be cleaned up faster because at night it may lead to escaping of terrorists or more casualties on our side.


It was 150 people not 180. SSG reached the spot within 15 minutes and snipers took out majority of attackers. There were 1100 kids in school, death toll would have been many times if they didn't arrive in time.

Recently when Chinese consulate was attacked they took down the attackers quite early and in other operations too they are successful in killing attackers quite early.


However this is also related to training of attackers. Pakistan extensively train terrorists to hide in houses, take civilians hostages, use them as shield, instead of being a rambo and fighting in open where they will be target practise. Their main aim is to somehow kill one IA soldier so even group of 4 try to hide and ambush even if it means sure death.

The people that attack Pakistan are mostly suicide bombers or cheap Talibani not well trained and only focus on killing as much as possible within first few minutes. They don't wait for forces to arrive and kill them.

Then credit to SSG where it's due. It's apathy to note that our media doesn't discuss much about Army's SOP to form public opinion. If it was US, funding would have gone through the roof.
No idea what the colonel was doing there. RR is losing men during every terrorists operations and they are supposed to be the elite of our counter terror strategy. This is deflating personally to me and I have no idea what the army must be going through. Accountability in IA for operations must be tough even though they are operating in unconventional environment.

 

[Vicky]

Let's see the effect it's had on our economy. From 1989 where we recorded a GDP nominal of USD 300 billion to USD 3 trillion in 2020 . That's a growth of 10 x.

In the same period Paxtan went from USD 52 billion to USD 283 billion . That's less than 6 times growth.

Whereas from being 6 times your GDP figures in 1989 , we're now 10 times bigger than you.

Also do remember we were on the verge of bankruptcy in 1991 where we had to pledge our sovereign gold - the most humiliating experience in our entire post independent existence. Something we promised we'd never repeat. And we have stayed true to our word.

What did Paxtan do in 1989 ? It went to the IMF.
What did Paxtan do in 2019 ? It went to the IMF.

Why 1989 ? It was a epochal year. The year the former SU moved out of Afghanistan & Paxtan declared a victory. It was the year the insurgency in J&K began. It was the year Paxtan justifiably felt that if it could defeat a super power, there wasn't a thing in the world to prevent it from defeating India in a proxy war & take J&K.

Except Kashmiris are no Pashtuns & India isn't the ex SU. 30 years later, you're still trying as you will 30 years from now if you exist as a nation. But what am I saying? Even if Punjabistan is all there's left of what was Paxtan & becomes the new Paxtan, it'd still continue the jihad, as it must .

Now, we realise you'd come up with the same old tired trope of India not prevailing over Paxtan in spite of being 7 times her size & having an economy 10 times hers. But there in lies the nub. Never ever kill a person who's committing suicide.

You see, 1971 wasn't as much as India or Bangladesh defeating Paxtan & carving out half a country as it was about Paxtan losing the plot completely. Incidentally, were there no 1965 , there'd be no 1971.

It's your job to seek shahadat as you can never be a ghazi & prevail over us. It's our job to fulfill your wish & see you off to Jana'ah. Let us both undertake what we're destined to.

It's like you feel better in berating the neighbour with our economic might to his glee on the loss of our troops. That economic eulogy is a beaten horse.
We should feel better when we have 72d their terrorist handlers and PA soldiers instead of deadbeating on economic point alone.
Question GoI, Army leadership to make them better.

 

[Sulla84]

Some reports say two of the trapped men were senior officers. It's very unlikely for senior officers to directly participate in CI ops

What is the need for a colonel to participate in killing rats ?

 

[zapper]

And some 180 kids died. Peshawar is a really bad example of a successful commando action.
Whereas I am concerned about our soldiers death during close combat situation, it should be rectified by technology and better equipment. Other than photo ops, not all soldiers are equipped with night vision goggles, wall penetrating radar, hand held positioning system (Army killed the indigenous program in 2009) which tells where are his colleagues exactly preventing friendly fire.

I was clearly stating the capabilities of special forces. Para SF, Marcos, Garuds and NSG are our elite and it's important we prioritize their acquisitions. It's understandable we're completely under prepared for a situation like 26/11 where NSG looks like a security guard armed with an MP5 but Pathankot where you can see much advanced NSG took days to eliminate 6 terrorists and what the heck are Garuds for when they're literally stationed in that airbase.

I agree 180 kids died in Peshawar school attack but even we lost around 160 civilians during 26/11 and most casualities in both cases were prior to the forces being deployed

What's the hurry if you can wear them down without losing any life. However in difficult terrain these close combat fights must be cleaned up faster because at night it may lead to escaping of terrorists or more casualties on our side.

In that case, our forces would never be proficient in CQB and we'd always resort to the same tactic which at most times is futile

What is the need for a colonel to participate in killing rats ?

Early reports stated that forces assumed all terrorists have been killed but it looks like a new tactic to act dead when they're overwhelmed and kill or take hostage when a few men enter to recover the bodies. Something more like a booby trap. What's pathetic is the colonel and major went in prior to the clean up

 

[zapper]

Let's see the effect it's had on our economy. From 1989 where we recorded a GDP nominal of USD 300 billion to USD 3 trillion in 2020 . That's a growth of 10 x.

In the same period Paxtan went from USD 52 billion to USD 283 billion . That's less than 6 times growth.

Whereas from being 6 times your GDP figures in 1989 , we're now 10 times bigger than you.

Also do remember we were on the verge of bankruptcy in 1991 where we had to pledge our sovereign gold - the most humiliating experience in our entire post independent existence. Something we promised we'd never repeat. And we have stayed true to our word.

What did Paxtan do in 1989 ? It went to the IMF.
What did Paxtan do in 2019 ? It went to the IMF.

Why 1989 ? It was a epochal year. The year the former SU moved out of Afghanistan & Paxtan declared a victory. It was the year the insurgency in J&K began. It was the year Paxtan justifiably felt that if it could defeat a super power, there wasn't a thing in the world to prevent it from defeating India in a proxy war & take J&K.

Except Kashmiris are no Pashtuns & India isn't the ex SU. 30 years later, you're still trying as you will 30 years from now if you exist as a nation. But what am I saying? Even if Punjabistan is all there's left of what was Paxtan & becomes the new Paxtan, it'd still continue the jihad, as it must .

Now, we realise you'd come up with the same old tired trope of India not prevailing over Paxtan in spite of being 7 times her size & having an economy 10 times hers. But there in lies the nub. Never ever kill a person who's committing suicide.

You see, 1971 wasn't as much as India or Bangladesh defeating Paxtan & carving out half a country as it was about Paxtan losing the plot completely. Incidentally, were there no 1965 , there'd be no 1971.

It's your job to seek shahadat as you can never be a ghazi & prevail over us. It's our job to fulfill your wish & see you off to Jana'ah. Let us both undertake what we're destined to.

You're post is similar to those punk heads on the green forum where they repeatedly bring up rape and toilet to counter Indian members. Let's be sensible and talk about where we clearly lag. We're loosing men, poorly prepared and under trained, obsolete SOPs', weak planning and most units are under-equipped.

This isn't about what we've achieved as an economy but the number of souls we're loosing despite having numbers advantage and home turf although it's a hostile neighborhood.

 

[Milspec]

We need retribution. Restart the TSD.

 

[Sulla84]

What's pathetic is the colonel and major went in prior to the clean up

I think the Army saying the colonel led the operation to save hostages is just trying to make a martyr out of a fool... And a fool the colonel surely was... guess with nothing to do but counter terrorism operation on home soil, senior officers feel there is a need to visit the front(house where rats are holed up). Not the first time senior officers have visited the area too soon, and made a mess of things..

 

[Shaktimaan]

The solution to this madness lies in terror central Rawalpindi....killing bunch of jihadis will not solve anything

 

[Sulla84]

Between .. any idea what is standard policy in situations where hostages are taken in kashmir. Does the Army prioritize hostage rescue... or does it prioritize eliminating the terrorists, while ensuring safety of its personnel, since the hostages themselves are terror sympathizers...

 

[vstol Jockey]

From whatever has been published in last couple of weeks, it was very clear that tangos were looking for a major strike to boost their morale. They had been on the backfoot for over two months now and they needed to do something spectacular. This op in Handwara was a well laid trap and our guys walked straight headon into it. Lot of OGWs are also informents of security forces. Plus many allow tangos to hide in their homes only to get money to rebuild their houses. Every house which gets blasted, the house owners are given a hefty compensation. And at times also the reward money for giving information. In this operation, It is very clear that the so called hostages were helping the Tangos and they lured the officers to the house where the Tangos were already hiding and waiting. As per my information, the officers had died within an hour of the start of operation. It was that well planned. They could not even put up a proper fight.