Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions

Dear Falcon and @vstol Jockey , do you (professionals) believe that the unit whose commanding officer has lost will get new one at the same deployed location or will be replaced by another unit?

We can see the rise in terror operations during this COVID-19 situation. Is Pakistan and their backed pigs has a sense of beliefs that India is at its weak.. Second thing, I have seen people from a certain community behaving in a way that is threatening Indian health security. Neither they are understanding appeals and adversaries made by government or administration, nor they have shown any respect to it. Can this be a twin attack from inside and outside. Cant government understand this?
Please read my earlier posts. I have always maintained that to sort out muslims of India, we need to take out Pakistan. Partition created three nations for muslims and none for Hindus. The only Hindu Rashtra of the world-Nepal was also lost by our RAW only. The day we fragment Pakistan, Muslims in India will come to their senses. Islam as a religion has no place in any society which is plural and secular. You will be shocked to know that Quraan itself runs contrary to the Idea of India. It was for this reason that while the Constituent Assembly of India discussed secularism in 1946/47, they chose not to call India a secular nation. Indira thru 42nd amendment created a socialist secular republic. These muslims take the refuge of secularism and say that their forefathers stayed back as India was secular nation but the truth is that India became secular with 42nd amendement. So we can easily ask every muslim of India who wants to follow Quraan and Hadith to leave India and we can do it constitutionally. As per various provisions of IPC and CrPC, Quraan can't be taught, read, printed, distributed or followed in India.
Few days back we had Hindu traders booked for disturbing religious harmony for displaying Bhagwa flags. What does Quraan say, kill every infidel. So who is disturbing the religious harmony. we need to chose between that book of murderous cult or Bhagwa culture which has place even for non believers. You may be shocked to know that even Buddhism does not recognise athiests. Even Christianity has no place for them.
 
If I am correct then it seems GoI has closed a deal with Pakistan and come and brought Pakistanis on negotiation that it will be govt to govt affair without targetting civilins in rest of India and Pakistan. You can see now, its fixed to Kashmir unlike in 90's and previous decade now no major strike. It's a fixed match. They will allow India to do a fixed sixers and India will allow them to to hit few fours.

No such thing. Pakistan has been on the backfoot ever since Modi came to power.

During Modi's first term, the rest of India became a redline. And during his second term, now all terrorist attacks are redline, period.

As long as BJP's in power, Pakistan won't attempt any major attacks, unless they want problems at their own doorstep.
 
Those who are berating @_Anonymous_ for his economic comparison are forgetting that our economic growth is a proof that Paks bleed India with 1000 cuts is failed. The Pakistanis are in the same shithole that they were 30 years ago. Still begging around the world while we now donate to our neighbours.
This is the best tribute to our 1000s of martyrs over the years.
While Pakistan will be the same begger in next 50 years.
Those lamenting over the fact that despite being 7 times smaller they are hurting us , what about US - Cuba? Or US - Vietnam or NK?
Or Afghanistan?
Geopolitics doesn't work like that.
We will lose men in future too , while we go marching forward.
If Pakistanis are still fighting despite losing half of the country why shouldn't we?
We have controlled NE , only pain is the valley , even jammu and Ladakh is in our hands
 
I once asked the men why. They said, if they get hit, the Medical Officer will save them. But if he/she gets hit, who will save them? So, for men, their lives are worth protecting the Medical Officer. A JCO once told me that if the Medical Officer is lost, the soldiers will to fight takes a severe beating.

Holds.

You would have got the answer if you watched Saving Private Ryan.

 
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You wish. Every politician is scared of that aspect. Equipment still exists ... as is needed for Army's SIGINT operations. Whatsapp chat, messages, voice calls, browsing habits .... amazing equipment. But cant be used as Politicians have ordered shut down. Once in while when you switch them on for maintenance, it is amusing.

Hmmm

I was under the impression various units aka AQ style were operational

Anyways

TSD got exposed due to a greedy and corrupt retired army general no less ( plus many serving generals broke opsec by gossiping to their comrade ) , then
TSD got shut down due to fear of UPA politicians

If something like TSD or TSDs are online ,
I doubt if it will be common knowledge with generals given their propensity to gossip amongst themselves. Why repeat the same mistakes , loose lips sink the ship .

Also once a intel unit is compromised , it's equipments ( and capabilities ) are considered to be compromised too . No active unit will touch them ( well that's the general norm )

I think I know the company who supplied some of the stuff . It's a publically little known indian company . Interestingly one of the top dogs in the field of intelligence products and services world wide. I heard rumours that even CIA is a client.
 
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There used to be a debate on this topic which has since lapsed. This debate was initiated by the much lamented, discredited Pravin Sawhney supported to a large extent by PKS. It was on the war fighting abilities of the IA. The debate was essentially around how in the past 30 years, continuous CI operations across the country particularly J&K has worn down the IA , debilitated their operational efficacy & efficiency as a war fighting force & limited their strategic thinking into believing that large scale operations like the 1971 war or battle set pieces like the Battle of the Bulge, Kursk, Stalingrad etc out of WW-2 were passe with the emphasis being more on CI & at the most CS type of operations involving rapid mobilisation for shallow thrusts across the border to hold territory under the overhang of N weapons until the eventual & inevitable foreign intervention enforced cease fire pending negotiations.

He also argued strongly for an exclusive CI force like RR to be completely divorced operationally & doctrinewise from the IA exclusively under the command of the MHA leaving the IA & the RM / MoD to focus exclusively on manning the border , strategize, procure accordingly & sharpen their war fighting abilities. Apparently all these continuous CI operations has affected the scheduling of war drills / exercises & the R&R schedules of the IA too. I'm increasingly coming around to agreeing with them that the IA as of today is like the ubiquitous potato in our cuisine. You can utilize it as you like except for the primary & exclusive task it was supposed to undertake.

Can't do that since Kashmir is part of the border and it's better to keep all such military units under one command. In fact, the army wants the Indo-Myanmar Assam Rifles to also come under army control for the same reason. I believe transferring control to the MHA will actually weaken COINOPS in Kashmir.

I guess the only good thing that will come out of it is the MHA run RR will actually get better equipment.
 
Dear Falcon and @vstol Jockey , do you (professionals) believe that the unit whose commanding officer has lost will get new one at the same deployed location or will be replaced by another unit?

No, the concerned unit is RR unit. CO will be posted in. The unit has its own 'intelligence resources' and 'knowledge of the area'. Why waste resources developed.
 
All these is waste of time , basically time pass for politicians , bureaucrats , generals etc.

Only road to solving the situation in Kashmir and by extension terrorism / domestic islamic jihad in india lies in Por.......

Anything less than that is akin to self mutilation . Instead of solving anything we are only increasing our problems .

The concept of defence / offensive defence is flawed considering 70 years no change in behaviour of por.....
They serve no purpose than fancy speeches.

As I keep saying defeat on the battlefield is not the final remedy, but it is the acceptance of the final outcome by the defeated side .

Those who follow ideology of Islam can only be subdued by the fighting , burning and killing them right in their homes plus lot of other things I would not mention in public.

War has to be total war , otherwise it is a business / timepass.
 
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So the "Shur-jee-kal" ishtrike made no difference?
The sooner India realizes that Kashmir freedom movement is an indigenous movement, the better.

Yes , we do realize that its a terrorist movement and will do stuffs in your country to expose your army's incompetency like this

 
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The debate was essentially around how in the past 30 years, continuous CI operations across the country particularly J&K has worn down the IA , debilitated their operational efficacy & efficiency as a war fighting force & limited their strategic thinking into believing that large scale operations like the 1971 war or battle set pieces like the Battle of the Bulge, Kursk, Stalingrad etc out of WW-2 were passe with the emphasis being more on CI & at the most CS type of operations involving rapid mobilisation for shallow thrusts across the border to hold territory under the overhang of N weapons until the eventual & inevitable foreign intervention enforced cease fire pending negotiations.

But that view, of limited duration conflicts, is pertinent. The only condition wherein the large group based wars will be fought is one like now, where the world is distracted with COVID19 pandemic and will have hardly any time to react in a cohesive manner to any aggression with an intent to occupy territory.

As for operational efficiency and war fighting taking a hit, it is true to certain extent but not for the reason being put forth. In fact, I have a counter argument. The experience of fighting in CI grid sans air support or heavy weaponry in urban set up, has trained our men more to match the increased urban pockets of resistance and defence one may expect to encounter in any conventional war on western border. Syria, Iraq, Libya remain perfect examples.

He also argued strongly for an exclusive CI force like RR to be completely divorced operationally & doctrinewise from the IA exclusively under the command of the MHA leaving the IA & the RM / MoD to focus exclusively on manning the border

We saw how that worked out in BSF, didn't we? Who is going to plug your gaps in any conventional war or is doing the same in CI grid along LC? It is the BSF. But the disconnect with soldiers of the officer cadre hailing from IPS is so glaring that effectiveness of BSF is severely compromised in select locations. Operationally, their officers are found missing except for few spirited ones, along LC, choosing to sit comfortably at battalion headquarters away from LC.

This was one view which Army wanted to do in Assam Rifles. If anyone wants to see how the CI force works other than RR, it is AR. Their officer cadre in executive is Army, Administrative is predominantly from own cadre. That makes a substantial difference.

You can also look at the performance of ex-army CRPF officers as compared to IPS officers to get an idea. It is about the level of training and the general mindset.

strategize, procure accordingly & sharpen their war fighting abilities. Apparently all these continuous CI operations has affected the scheduling of war drills / exercises & the R&R schedules of the IA too. I'm increasingly coming around to agreeing with them that the IA as of today is like the ubiquitous potato in our cuisine. You can utilize it as you like except for the primary & exclusive task it was supposed to undertake.

Strategize - mediocrity has increased in the society. It is rewarded. You get in forces what is prevalent in society. One option which was put forth back in 1997 was to make NDA entry from Standard X on, and rest all from standard XII on so that the army can have choice of people in an impressionable age bracket moving for education into their environments to be groomed and prepared for forces. The proposal remained as such.

Procurement - it is simply not in army's hands. If you won't do it, you will be posted out and someone else will be brought in Simple. Has happened too often in the system.

War fighting abilities - need exercises. In an era where Army's authorised land is being given away as cities and towns miserably fail to build infrastructure and want to tap into the land of Cantonment and better roads there to provide access to areas they dont connect due to poor planning and sheer corruption, the availability of land is an issue. Ranges have been denotified. Earlier, artillery fire used to take place at Shamirpet, north of Hyderabad. Today, there is extensive farming and settlements being done there. Also, funds. There are simply no funds. Then, battle innoculation, where in people were put under actual fire to get used to responding under fire, has been stopped by GoI.
 
I agree.
Nothing will change. Kashmiri freedom struggle will continue.

It will continue till India chooses to kill only people with gun in hand and their overground supporter. The day India will decide to be ruthless like Kashmiri Musli.s who cleansed Hindus, militancy will end in a month.
 
Pakistan army is better. That's why they are able to counter adversary 5 times bigger Indian army. They improvise from the experiences in Arab countries and Afghanistan, they know how to use proxy and contain the after effects to outskirts. Indian army needs to re-evaluate , improvise, go more technical, more intel-oriented and preemptive when its about CTops.

No they have more freedom to use Shia, pakhtuns , Sindhis and Muhajirs as cannon fodder. The don't care for anybody other than pukjabi Sunnis. They don't care for civilians. Indian army doesn't have these freedoms.
 
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They have brilliantly fooled the Indians and diverted all of India's attention towards the proxy, be it Kashmir separatism, khalistan, tamil etc. And themselves they tend to handle high grade intel operations inside other parts of India. That's the only conclusion.
PA has a history of not revealing casualities. They directly told their parliament that they don't want their adversaries to know the accurate number of KIA in PA. Have you ever wondered why PA always claims India is targeting civilians while IA always publicly claims it's martyrs? Unless you hit with artillery, regular firing be it small-med caliber weapons or ATGMs' wouldn't reach civilian populated areas. There aren't many along the LoC since they're well aware of being caught in cross-firing all the time

The police has said the militant was from Pakistan, right or wrong this has provided enough excuse to hit shitistan
On that note, any incident can be framed on pak


Modernisation of infantry equipment is an on going process. But in areas or for units involved in any type of combat should have access to top notch world class equipment no matter what. And it won't be a lot actually.

Saw some pictures on twitter, units still have Bren , patka , obsolete heavy bpjs, etc. Focus should be here.

Top notch best equipment available off the shelf on emergency basis before a single penny is spent on anything else in India.

We don't need world class equipment, that would take infinitely long negotiations, approval processes etc until every department receives their share of kickbacks. We could arm our frontline troops with indigenously developed gear by private Indian firms like P-72 assault rifles/carbines and Viber/Saber snipers from SSS defence, High cut helmets from MKU, Gun and helmet mounted sights from Tonbo while BPJs'/Boots/Clothing can be procured from Tata's TASL/TAML which would be cost effective and way better than OFB crap
 
No they have more freedom to use Shia, pakhtuns , Sindhis and Muhajirs as cannon fodder. The don't care for anybody other than pukjabi Sunnis. They don't care for civilians. Indian army doesn't have these freedoms.
Isn't India already doing so for the last 70 years in Kashmir?
 
I agree.
Nothing will change. Kashmiri freedom struggle will continue.
Keep struggling who cares. Now with collapse of oil, you will also be begging. Suit yourself.
As I said nothing changes whatsoever, you will keep struggling to snatch our freedom as it has been before. We have survived for centuries 50 years is just a drop in it.