LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

[randomradio]

The detachment at Leh is likely to be turned into a full fledged squadron.

Also more aircrafts are needed by Eastern air command, as it has lost 3 Mig27 squadrons.

The MWF is a better option at Leh, the single engine design will lead to a quicker response. The Mig-29 is better off in Gujarat, it's closer to its supply center and the avionics are more suited to deal with Pakistan rather than China. The MWF will be a pan-India jet, like the MKI, whereas the Mig-29 is meant only for selective bases, so there's no point stretching limited Mig-29 resources over such long distances, it will use up strategic transporters just to maintain that lone squadron in Leh.

EAC most definitely needs a lot more jets. That's the command that's facing the biggest problem in terms of squadron drawdown and unfortunately has a lower priority than WAC. I believe 1 more MKI squadron is still pending for Assam. Hasimara should be able to handle one more Rafale squadron. It should be followed by another base with 2 more Rafale squadrons in the future. 2 MWF squadrons are also needed at the very minimum. But these are only to maintain numbers, what the command needs most is 2 squadrons of Su-57. There will be a serious mismatch in capabilities within the next 5 years without the Su-57 or similar.

 

[screambowl]

The MWF is a better option at Leh, the single engine design will lead to a quicker response.

IAF doesn't have time for that. They should deploy whatever they have to fill up the gap. Things will get escalated in 1-2 years most probably.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The MWF is a better option at Leh, the single engine design will lead to a quicker response. The Mig-29 is better off in Gujarat, it's closer to its supply center and the avionics are more suited to deal with Pakistan rather than China. The MWF will be a pan-India jet, like the MKI, whereas the Mig-29 is meant only for selective bases, so there's no point stretching limited Mig-29 resources over such long distances, it will use up strategic transporters just to maintain that lone squadron in Leh.

EAC most definitely needs a lot more jets. That's the command that's facing the biggest problem in terms of squadron drawdown and unfortunately has a lower priority than WAC. I believe 1 more MKI squadron is still pending for Assam. Hasimara should be able to handle one more Rafale squadron. It should be followed by another base with 2 more Rafale squadrons in the future. 2 MWF squadrons are also needed at the very minimum. But these are only to maintain numbers, what the command needs most is 2 squadrons of Su-57. There will be a serious mismatch in capabilities within the next 5 years without the Su-57 or similar.

Kalaikunda lost a Mig27 squadron too. Maybe the Tejas Mk1 No18 get shifted from Sulur to Kalaikunda.
Plus the planned 2nd Tanker squadron which was to be set up at Panagarh to be dedicated to the 3 Su30MKI squadrons of EAC are still far from becoming a reality.

No8 squadron used to be under EAC to provide QRA type duties with Mig21 untill it moved out too. Basically EAC is down by 100 fighters in last 10 years, with 1 Mig21 and 3 Mig27M squadrons retired. And is working with 50-60 Su30MKIs based in Tezpur and Chabua

 

[vikata]

The MWF is a better option at Leh, the single engine design will lead to a quicker response. The Mig-29 is better off in Gujarat, it's closer to its supply center and the avionics are more suited to deal with Pakistan rather than China. The MWF will be a pan-India jet, like the MKI, whereas the Mig-29 is meant only for selective bases, so there's no point stretching limited Mig-29 resources over such long distances, it will use up strategic transporters just to maintain that lone squadron in Leh.

EAC most definitely needs a lot more jets. That's the command that's facing the biggest problem in terms of squadron drawdown and unfortunately has a lower priority than WAC. I believe 1 more MKI squadron is still pending for Assam. Hasimara should be able to handle one more Rafale squadron. It should be followed by another base with 2 more Rafale squadrons in the future. 2 MWF squadrons are also needed at the very minimum. But these are only to maintain numbers, what the command needs most is 2 squadrons of Su-57. There will be a serious mismatch in capabilities within the next 5 years without the Su-57 or similar.

kindly elaborate the highlighted part,mirage 2k is only based in gwalior despite being in almost 3 squadron in number.any particular reason for that?do we have any plane to venture as far as beijing if needs arise (i am not saying to do it ,only having plane with those capabilty will send enough signal)having a few squadron of lca in interceptor role wont do any harm as we seems to be only preparing for a war wirth defensive role in eastern sector




last but not the least what about having a half dozen used block 60/52 and use it in TACDE and release pic of them getting locked by su 30 /rafale/lca /mig 29/mirage 2k it will be quite a psy war to behold

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Kalaikunda lost a Mig27 squadron too. Maybe the Tejas Mk1 No18 get shifted from Sulur to Kalaikunda.
Plus the planned 2nd Tanker squadron which was to be set up at Panagarh to be dedicated to the 3 Su30MKI squadrons of EAC are still far from becoming a reality.

No8 squadron used to be under EAC to provide QRA type duties with Mig21 untill it moved out too. Basically EAC is down by 100 fighters in last 10 years, with 1 Mig21 and 3 Mig27M squadrons retired. And is working with 50-60 Su30MKIs based in Tezpur and Chabua

It should be getting 2 squadrons of Rafale. Maybe 1 more Su30MKI squadron as you said and 1 MK1A squadron will make up for the interim. And then we can look to have Su57. Becoz after 2025, we will need Su57, 2 squadrons under EAC and 2 more maybe operating from Jodhpur.

 

[randomradio]

Kalaikunda lost a Mig27 squadron too. Maybe the Tejas Mk1 No18 get shifted from Sulur to Kalaikunda.

No, it will go to the Pakistani side. LCA can't do anything at Kalaikunda.

Plus the planned 2nd Tanker squadron which was to be set up at Panagarh to be dedicated to the 3 Su30MKI squadrons of EAC are still far from becoming a reality.

Will be further delayed due to COVID.

No8 squadron used to be under EAC to provide QRA type duties with Mig21 untill it moved out too. Basically EAC is down by 100 fighters in last 10 years, with 1 Mig21 and 3 Mig27M squadrons retired. And is working with 50-60 Su30MKIs based in Tezpur and Chabua

Yes, the condition there is very disappointing. The only reason we are a bit comfortable is because China is also focusing elsewhere.

 

[randomradio]

kindly elaborate the highlighted part,mirage 2k is only based in gwalior despite being in almost 3 squadron in number.any particular reason for that?

It's considered a highly strategic asset. That's one of the reasons. There should be a few more reasons, but I'm not privy to it.

do we have any plane to venture as far as beijing if needs arise (i am not saying to do it ,only having plane with those capabilty will send enough signal)having a few squadron of lca in interceptor role wont do any harm as we seems to be only preparing for a war wirth defensive role in eastern sector

Nope.

LCA technically can be used in the east, but it's not necessary when MWF is on its way. LCA is needed for the West in order to make up for the Mig-21's phase out.

last but not the least what about having a half dozen used block 60/52 and use it in TACDE and release pic of them getting locked by su 30 /rafale/lca /mig 29/mirage 2k it will be quite a psy war to behold

Waste of money. It's better to train with other air forces that operate the F-16, since they actually know how to fly the F-16. If we get the F-16, we have to train from scratch, which will take too long.

 

[Milspec]

kindly elaborate the highlighted part,mirage 2k is only based in gwalior despite being in almost 3 squadron in number.any particular reason for that?do we have any plane to venture as far as beijing if needs arise (i am not saying to do it ,only having plane with those capabilty will send enough signal)having a few squadron of lca in interceptor role wont do any harm as we seems to be only preparing for a war wirth defensive role in eastern sector




last but not the least what about having a half dozen used block 60/52 and use it in TACDE and release pic of them getting locked by su 30 /rafale/lca /mig 29/mirage 2k it will be quite a psy war to behold

Psy war' and it's effects are for fanboys on the internet, the josh in the forces is unaffected by this type of stuff. What does effect the morale is the inaction of the government that puts old stock RVV-AE against Aim120c5 or a Mig21 against F16blk52. Give the fighters the right weapons to fight with.

India needs to stop being bean counters and start shelling up the money for Rafales And i don't see the harm in replacing the Mig29's with T50 going forward without compromising MWF.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Psy war' and it's effects are for fanboys on the internet, the josh in the forces is unaffected by this type of stuff. What does effect the morale is the inaction of the government that puts old stock RVV-AE against Aim120c5 or a Mig21 against F16blk52. Give the fighters the right weapons to fight with.

India needs to stop being bean counters and start shelling up the money for Rafales And i don't see the harm in replacing the Mig29's with T50 going forward without compromising MWF.

What's with everyone having a go at the MiG 29s . I'm seeing this trend over the past 1 year at BRF, here & now Twitter. Even the optimistic @randomradio in such times as we are ( wonder how can one be so optimistic) doesn't think too much of the MiG 29.

Haven't we already upgraded it to the extent possible? I wish we had gone the whole 9 yards with the upgrade - RWR, SPJ , inbuilt Radar jammers, MAWS, AESA Radar, HDMS, Glass Cockpit , etc if possible an engine upgrade & FBW too so that we have a FA which would be 4.5 ++ Gen & something which can last till the 2040's


Is it even possible? If not, which parts aren't & why? And if it's such a dud, Why're we going in for 21-36 more nos?

 

[Milspec]

What's with everyone having a go at the MiG 29s . I'm seeing this trend over the past 1 year at BRF, here & now Twitter. Even the optimistic @randomradio in such times as we are ( wonder how can one be so optimistic) doesn't think too much of the MiG 29.

Haven't we already upgraded it to the extent possible? I wish we had gone the whole 9 yards with the upgrade - RWR, SPJ , inbuilt Radar jammers, MAWS, AESA Radar, HDMS, Glass Cockpit , etc if possible an engine upgrade & FBW too so that we have a FA which would be 4.5 ++ Gen & something which can last till the 2040's


Is it even possible? If not, which parts aren't & why? And if it's such a dud, Why're we going in for 21-36 more nos?

Nothing against Mig29's.
They are the most potent WVR fighters in Indian arsenal at this time, but even with the upgrades, these are 40 year old airframes, and will need to be replaced. At most it has another Zhuk FGA35/50 upgrade with the K77M bvr option.
Getting more mig29's is a cheap fix, as we cannot get more M2K's at this point, Jags are useless, LCA has the love-hate relationship with IAF, Mk2 is out 5-8 years, Orca/tedbf/amca all are still paper planes. So that leaves just Mig29's which can wither be picked from Russian hangars and upgraded or even built brand new if needed, which will need minimum training for pilots, ground staff, tactics, etc, There is nothing else as we don't want to add more MKI's.

Rafale's easily fit the bill to replace Mig29's, but maybe, just maybe T50's could create an unknown threat in the immediate theater on both sides.

 

[vikata]

Nothing against Mig29's.
They are the most potent WVR fighters in Indian arsenal at this time, but even with the upgrades, these are 40 year old airframes, and will need to be replaced. At most it has another Zhuk FGA35/50 upgrade with the K77M bvr option.
Getting more mig29's is a cheap fix, as we cannot get more M2K's at this point, Jags are useless, LCA has the love-hate relationship with IAF, Mk2 is out 5-8 years, Orca/tedbf/amca all are still paper planes. So that leaves just Mig29's which can wither be picked from Russian hangars and upgraded or even built brand new if needed, which will need minimum training for pilots, ground staff, tactics, etc, There is nothing else as we don't want to add more MKI's.

Rafale's easily fit the bill to replace Mig29's, but maybe, just maybe T50's could create an unknown threat in the immediate theater on both sides.

it has been said multiple time since india has given money for indian specific changes ,it can buy anothr tranche for approx 5 billion for 36 plane .will that not make sense?we are buying helicopter like apache for 2 billion (i thin indian army component was valued at approx900 million for 6 hepters i guess)instead of going for purchase like those and nasam ,as there were indian alternative available in the form of lch (iaf apache could have easily transferred to the army) and rafale could have been purchased .this money could have put money in the indian defense sector and would have multiplier effect on the economy also

72 numbers would have been adequate and remaining money could have been better utilized in indian program like MWF,LCA.the irony is we are riddled with ineficient purchase pattern,the military demand unobtanium and things might get delivered in next millenium ,meanwhile soldering on with obsolete /vintage platform.

i completely got your point when the time arise we were left with defending with those obsolete migs,regarding jags dont you think it has got no role now and is merely adding the numbers ,when teh time was for surgical strike ,iaf chickened out and used mirages instead ,similar was its performance in kargil ,so what exactly is its future in iaf from operational doctrine ,it would have been better to add lca instead in interceptor role and add perhaps couple of squadron of su30 for jag role of ground bombing ,as it will have greater chances of surviability also.

iaf with approximately 7 times better funding yet when it comes to Dday comes short of expectation ,is it the case of inefficient management and planning when it comes to capital budget

 

[Vicky]

Kalaikunda lost a Mig27 squadron too. Maybe the Tejas Mk1 No18 get shifted from Sulur to Kalaikunda.
Plus the planned 2nd Tanker squadron which was to be set up at Panagarh to be dedicated to the 3 Su30MKI squadrons of EAC are still far from becoming a reality.

No8 squadron used to be under EAC to provide QRA type duties with Mig21 untill it moved out too. Basically EAC is down by 100 fighters in last 10 years, with 1 Mig21 and 3 Mig27M squadrons retired. And is working with 50-60 Su30MKIs based in Tezpur and Chabua

Isnt kalaikunda already hosting Singapore Air Force for most part of the year?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Isnt kalaikunda already hosting Singapore Air Force for most part of the year?

Yes, till 2022.

But seperate infrastructure exist to support IAF aircraft.

 

[randomradio]

What's with everyone having a go at the MiG 29s . I'm seeing this trend over the past 1 year at BRF, here & now Twitter. Even the optimistic @randomradio in such times as we are ( wonder how can one be so optimistic) doesn't think too much of the MiG 29.

Haven't we already upgraded it to the extent possible? I wish we had gone the whole 9 yards with the upgrade - RWR, SPJ , inbuilt Radar jammers, MAWS, AESA Radar, HDMS, Glass Cockpit , etc if possible an engine upgrade & FBW too so that we have a FA which would be 4.5 ++ Gen & something which can last till the 2040's


Is it even possible? If not, which parts aren't & why? And if it's such a dud, Why're we going in for 21-36 more nos?

The Mig-29s are fine for now, but even with the upgrade, they do not have much life left. The Mig-29 version we operate is cleared only for 2500 hours, and the upgrade will push it to 3500 hours. So it's not a lot. In case of war, or war like conditions, the airframe life will disappear really quickly. Even the new orders for 21 do not have much life left since they have been preserved since the Cold War, but definitely much better than the ones that are in operation. The Mig-29s may need another expensive overhaul just to survive all the way to 2035. Otoh, the M2000 has 6000 hours and the upgrade has added 5500 hours more. So it makes sense to get rid of the Mig-29s at the first opportunity.

But as a combat fighter, the Mig-29 is really good, even better than the F-16 Block 52+ that the PAF operates. It just lacks the time required to be viable for a prolonged period.

Anyway, of the list of upgrades you named, the Mig-29 has all except MAWS and AESA radar. It's not clear why there's no MAWS, but it seems to be a screw-up from some lab. As for AESA, there wasn't one available at the time. With the exception of the MAWS and AESA, it is more or less similar to a modern 4.5th gen fighter jet. The EW suite's internal SPJ is AESA for example.

 

[randomradio]

it has been said multiple time since india has given money for indian specific changes ,it can buy anothr tranche for approx 5 billion for 36 plane .will that not make sense?

It's the most sensible option. But there is quite sometime left for us to exercise it. Maybe at least after the first squadron is operational and the IAF comes to grips with it 'cause there are also a lot of critics of the Rafale within. There are groups demanding the purchase of a different MMRCA type through the tender, some want more MKI or upgraded MKIs, some prefer going for the Su-57 etc. So, once the Rafale pilots give in their reports, most of the critics will be silenced, and it will clear the way for the IAF to ask for more Rafales.

 

[randomradio]

At most it has another Zhuk FGA35/50 upgrade with the K77M bvr option.

No longer possible.

Rafale's easily fit the bill to replace Mig29's, but maybe, just maybe T50's could create an unknown threat in the immediate theater on both sides.

When they figured out FGFA will become too expensive, 63 Su-57s were planned to replace the Mig-29s. So orders came down from 214 to 154 to 127 and then 63, to now 0. AMCA numbers would climb instead.

 

[Milspec]

No longer possible.



When they figured out FGFA will become too expensive, 63 Su-57s were planned to replace the Mig-29s. So orders came down from 214 to 154 to 127 and then 63, to now 0. AMCA numbers would climb instead.

These is IAF we are talking about. They have variables not constants.

 

[randomradio]

These is IAF we are talking about. They have variables not constants.

I think the variables change due to lack of money more than anything else.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I think the variables change due to lack of money more than anything else.

More unification within the 3 forces, removal of duplication and reorganization of theaters along with immediate investment in more automation to cut non combat numbers. That will save us the CAPEX to sign for 1-2 more big deal each FY.

 

[randomradio]

More unification within the 3 forces, removal of duplication and reorganization of theaters along with immediate investment in more automation to cut non combat numbers. That will save us the CAPEX to sign for 1-2 more big deal each FY.

The unification process itself will take up a lot of funds on its own. Investment in automation is also unrealistic right now, the funds are necessary to buy weapons first.