LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

Mk1 performed better than many contenders in LEH..
Supposedly 4 out of 6 MMrca contenders even failed in LEH

_-----------

Some drop tank was found in POK , F16 s. Post balakote.

---------

BTW why pak didn't show case alleged Mig 21 drop tank along with grainy picture of 4 missile s..
 
Isn’t US and it’s allies use F15 (and F18]for this role,Frances uses Rafale, Eu Typhoon and RuAF uses Su27 SM ?
So why should we use a light fighter for this role?

Single engine, light fighters are the best for this role. Other countries close to Russia use F-16s, now F-35s, for the same role. In our case, our enemies are right next door. In the case of France, UK etc, their enemies are far away, so they need twin-engine aircraft. They have the time necessary to react due to the distance, especially when they need to chase down bombers instead of fighters, particularly the British.

The Soviet Union used Mig-21 and Mig-23 for this role for a long time. As for Russia, their main priority is different compared to other more established air forces since they are rebuilding their air force from scratch, basically. And their overall requirements are different compared to other air forces due to their large geographical area. But there are now rumours of a new next gen single-engine aircraft built around the Su-57's engine, like the J-10 and F-16, under the LMFS program.

The Chinese use J-10. The French have M-2000s.

For India, MWF is the best option. LCA is simply a stop-gap until MWF becomes available. And due to its short range and close proximity to enemy bases, it's best used against PAF, not PLAAF.
 
Isn’t US and it’s allies use F15 (and F18]for this role,Frances uses Rafale, Eu Typhoon and RuAF uses Su27 SM ?
So why should we use a light fighter for this role?
LCA in QRA role will have higher availability rates , lower man hours for maintenance and cheaper compared to a Su30MKI or a Mig29 doing the same duty.

And it can do it with a very high tempo over extended periods of time.
 
We actually need Rafale in greater numbers than LCA Mk1A. LCA Mk1A is needed in forward bases for QRA, so 6 squadrons along the Pak border are more than enough. Rafale, we need twice the numbers for all sorts of complex missions. Basically, both jets are needed.
Yes. We do need more than 250 Rafales for both IAF and Navy combined even if navy doesn't have any carrier to operate it. Rafales are best for naval interdiction to protect our maritime boundary from any type of attack. 3 dedicated sqdns of Rafales on shore based defensive and offensive role will push PLAN out of Indian Ocean or at least on back foot. Problem is our economy was fkd up by Congress between 2005 and 2014 which were the most productive years of world economy. China took full advantage and pushed their economy to above 10trillion dollars from 2trillion in 2005 a multiple of 5. We were at 1trillion then had we grown at that pace we would have been at 8to10 trillion dollars by now and would have easily funded 250to300 Rafale procurement which is ideal figure....
 
3 dedicated sqdns of Rafales on shore based defensive and offensive role will push PLAN out of Indian Ocean or at least on back foot.

I prefer a squadron or two of Su-57 instead. But the issue is the IAF has still not come around to allowing the IN to operate shore-based fighter jets. And the IN is hellbent on acquiring a 3rd carrier.

And we don't have money to even buy some rifles right now. :ROFLMAO:
 
I prefer a squadron or two of Su-57 instead. But the issue is the IAF has still not come around to allowing the IN to operate shore-based fighter jets. And the IN is hellbent on acquiring a 3rd carrier.

And we don't have money to even buy some rifles right now. :ROFLMAO:
Wait till 2022....
 
LCA in QRA role will have higher availability rates , lower man hours for maintenance and cheaper compared to a Su30MKI or a Mig29 doing the same duty.

And it can do it with a very high tempo over extended periods of time.
I have some confusion regarding roles of CAP, QRA and Air Interception. Is QRA different from interceptions?
I think LCA can do CAPs due to being cheaper and less maintenance hungry. Its endurance can be increased by external fuel tans for this role, which btw limits it’s weapon load.
But don’t you think QRA is done by Interceptors, with potent weapon load, longer endurance and superior flight kinematics than the adversary. LCA looks very deficient in every department.
I have seen Japanese and Korean movies and documentaries where they scramble F15 to take on intruding Chinese and North Koreans Sukhois and Migs.

@randomradio single engine fighters are preferred for CAPs and QRAs both ? Isn’t QRA is like emergency where you need your best man/machine to take on the enemy irrespective of the cost.
 
I have some confusion regarding roles of CAP, QRA and Air Interception. Is QRA different from interceptions?
I think LCA can do CAPs due to being cheaper and less maintenance hungry. Its endurance can be increased by external fuel tans for this role, which btw limits it’s weapon load.
But don’t you think QRA is done by Interceptors, with potent weapon load, longer endurance and superior flight kinematics than the adversary. LCA looks very deficient in every department.
I have seen Japanese and Korean movies and documentaries where they scramble F15 to take on intruding Chinese and North Koreans Sukhois and Migs.
For Quick Reaction Alert duties the designated set of aircraft, say 6-7 aircrafts from that squadron needs to remain always equipped, ready to be fueled and fly asap. The pilots are dressed and ready for more than 12-15 hours , the support crew has longer shifts.

The QRA of NATO is different from the QRA we have to do. For NATO its the long range bombers. So their aircraft not only need to intercept that bomber but also need to escort it out through its airspace, often doing more than a hour long engagement. That's why those nations prefer to have longer legged twin engine fighter platform for such duties.

We do not face the same situation. Due to our proximity, LCA is more than potent.

Two LCAs with 2 WVRAAMs and 2 BVRAAMs and a SPJ on QRA duty are more than sufficient to take on any formation.

Their radars are capable systems and so are the missiles.

For numbers , they are backed by Air Defence Missiles and in any case will be soon backed up by MKIs.
 
N
For Quick Reaction Alert duties the designated set of aircraft, say 6-7 aircrafts from that squadron needs to remain always equipped, ready to be fueled and fly asap. The pilots are dressed and ready for more than 12-15 hours , the support crew has longer shifts.

The QRA of NATO is different from the QRA we have to do. For NATO its the long range bombers. So their aircraft not only need to intercept that bomber but also need to escort it out through its airspace, often doing more than a hour long engagement. That's why those nations prefer to have longer legged twin engine fighter platform for such duties.

We do not face the same situation. Due to our proximity, LCA is more than potent.

Two LCAs with 2 WVRAAMs and 2 BVRAAMs and a SPJ on QRA duty are more than sufficient to take on any formation.

Their radars are capable systems and so are the missiles.

For numbers , they are backed by Air Defence Missiles and in any case will be soon backed up by MKIs.
what is the role of interceptors then ?
Or this concept is obsolete now ?
 
Too far. LCA doesn't have the fuel necessary to go for a tanking mission. Even if it does, it will run our of fuel anyway, it's useless. The distance is simply too far. And instead of the jet going to the refueler, the refueler has to come to the jet. That will make the refueler vulnerable. The Chinese are making AAMs which have more range than LCA's combat radius.

In my opinion, hot refueling is more critical for Tejas than air to air refueling (Air refueling is rather a nice to have feature). If it is used for CAP (with a centerline drop tank + 2 BVR + 2 CCR), it should be able to land, refuel and take-off with a quick turn around time. This way two tejas can be used in rotation as compared to one Sukhoi. However, I am not sure which option is more expensive.
 
In my opinion, hot refueling is more critical for Tejas than air to air refueling (Air refueling is rather a nice to have feature). If it is used for CAP (with a centerline drop tank + 2 BVR + 2 CCR), it should be able to land, refuel and take-off with a quick turn around time. This way two tejas can be used in rotation as compared to one Sukhoi. However, I am not sure which option is more expensive.
Tejas is already cleared for hot turn around including change of crew and its hot turnaround time is just 14 minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya and Kane
For Quick Reaction Alert duties the designated set of aircraft, say 6-7 aircrafts from that squadron needs to remain always equipped, ready to be fueled and fly asap. The pilots are dressed and ready for more than 12-15 hours , the support crew has longer shifts.

The QRA of NATO is different from the QRA we have to do. For NATO its the long range bombers. So their aircraft not only need to intercept that bomber but also need to escort it out through its airspace, often doing more than a hour long engagement. That's why those nations prefer to have longer legged twin engine fighter platform for such duties.

We do not face the same situation. Due to our proximity, LCA is more than potent.

Two LCAs with 2 WVRAAMs and 2 BVRAAMs and a SPJ on QRA duty are more than sufficient to take on any formation.

Their radars are capable systems and so are the missiles.

For numbers , they are backed by Air Defence Missiles and in any case will be soon backed up by MKIs.

There are various levels of alert. QRA is wrt to that.

1. Aircraft is in hangar. Pilot is on duty.
2. Aircraft is in hangar and pilot is in cockpit. Engines off
3. Aircraft is in hangar, engines on
4. Aircraft is on runway.

In all the above scenarios, single engine will be quicker compared to dual engine fighters. Objective is to get airborne asap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya and AbRaj
There is a simpler way to look at this topic. Just see the deployment location of the planes that mk1 & MWF are supposed to replace. Tejas mk1 will replace mig 21 and MWF will replace mig 29, mirage and jaguar. Here, just locate these planes on this map:

mig 21 are deployed on western & northern borders. They are going to be replaced by mk1. Mig 21 are NOT deployed on eastern orders, so its safe to assume that mk1 won't be deployed there either. As for the duties they perform, its safe to assume that these newer aircrafts will be better than the ones they are replacing (hopeful assumption).

Regarding MWF, just look at the deployment of mig 29 (leh, jamnagar, adampur) , jaguars (gorakhpur, jamnagar, ambala) and mirage (gwalior). mig 29 and jaguars are twin engine aircrafts that are going to be replaced by a single engine MWF. So, expect some changes in planning.

Now, obviously, further changes in deployment strategies and changes in planning might result in changed locations but thats for the future. Also, the AF officers won't shout out these things in public. Furthermore, mk1 & MWF are not even real planes at this point. There could be some unforeseen deficiencies that might result in altered strategies and plans, who knows? Everything is just speculation at this point. There are too many variables to make a definite prediction.
 
I have some confusion regarding roles of CAP, QRA and Air Interception. Is QRA different from interceptions?
I think LCA can do CAPs due to being cheaper and less maintenance hungry. Its endurance can be increased by external fuel tans for this role, which btw limits it’s weapon load.
But don’t you think QRA is done by Interceptors, with potent weapon load, longer endurance and superior flight kinematics than the adversary. LCA looks very deficient in every department.
I have seen Japanese and Korean movies and documentaries where they scramble F15 to take on intruding Chinese and North Koreans Sukhois and Migs.

@randomradio single engine fighters are preferred for CAPs and QRAs both ? Isn’t QRA is like emergency where you need your best man/machine to take on the enemy irrespective of the cost.

An interceptor is a category of aircraft that was designed for high speed. Its main job was to defend the air space and CAP and QRA are roles that the interceptor performed. A CAP is a planned role, where a group of aircraft take off at a designated time and patrol over a designated route. A QRA is an unplanned role, where a group of aircraft take off when something in the air is considered a threat. Due to technological advancements, now the same role is handled by air superiority aircraft and now multirole aircraft. The LCA is a multirole aircraft that can perform both interception and air superiority, along with ground strike and even recce. So both CAP and QRA can be performed by LCA.

Now, the reason why we in India use single engine aircraft for QRA is simple. The speed of an aircraft is about 900Km/hr, or about 1Km every 4 seconds. Which means, if an enemy aircraft is threatening to intrude into our air space from a distance of 60Km, the aircraft will be able to do it in 4 min. A single engine aircraft can turn on its engine and take off in 1.5-2 min, and achieve altitude in another 1.5 min. So in 3-3.5 min, the single-engine aircraft will have achieved a threatening position with respect to the enemy aircraft, ie, well before the enemy is at the border, we also have an aircraft in the air challenging it. In the same scenario, a twin engine jet would take 5 min to take off and 1.5 min to gain altitude. By the time 7.5 min are done, the enemy aircraft, if its intention is to attack, will have already finished its attack and would be heading back before the twin engine aircraft is able to respond to the threat.

This is all because our enemy air bases are about 170Km on average from our Western border. And with low altitude flying and ECM, it's possible that our response time will be even slower, hence the need to use SE aircraft as close to the border as realistically possible.

The CAP aircraft's main goal is to delay or even prevent an enemy attack before the QRA aircraft are up in the air in numbers. After which, the CAP and QRA aircraft work together to deal with the threat.

High performance is relative to the threat. Considering the threat the Pakistanis pose to India, the LCA is more than enough for this role. The aircraft has adequate technology, performance and weapons to deal with Pakistan and is much softer on our own defence budget. Otoh, we have much more response time with respect to China, however the Chinese have much more sophisticated aircraft, which requires us to match such a threat with equally sophisticated aircraft. Hence the LCA becomes less important in the East, primarily due to its low range (it's good for everything else). We need the MWF because it can stay up in the air for an extra hour compared to the LCA, which also translates into greater supersonic and combat time.

When the J-20 comes in supercruising, the LCA won't have the range or the speed necessary to combat it. If the J-20 can sustain mach 1.6 supercruise for 30 min or more, the LCA can only do 2-3 min at that speed. Otoh, if ADA is good enough, the MWF should be able to sustain at least mach 1.4 on minimum burner for 20 minutes or more, like the Flanker can. The LCA has no use in this theatre.

Similarly, other nations use SE or TE jets based on the response time needed. When the response time is adequate, the capability of the jet comes next. So when the Japanese use F-15s, they simply have enough time to put a more capable jet in the air. The UK also has time since they can see bombers coming in hundreds of Km away. The Koreans use F-5s, which they will replace with the F/A-50. Their operating conditions are similar to India's.
 
Vstol has told us second engine takes additional 1 minute for second engine to be ready in twin engine aircraft, therby delaying even the take off of next aircraft ..
 
Vstol has told us second engine takes additional 1 minute for second engine to be ready in twin engine aircraft, therby delaying even the take off of next aircraft ..
This does not delay the take off of the other aircraft as all aircraft in a formation start their engines together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya