In fact, this is normal. Currently, only South Korea's FA50 and Tejas fighters are still using F404. South Korea uses the GE102 model, and South Korea has its own production capacity. India's IN20 model itself has few orders, perhaps about 10 units a year. Naturally, the Americans are unwilling to expand production again, and the delivery date cannot be guaranteed.
LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
I think it's okay to just listen to the words of so-called insiders, and there's no need to take them seriously. In 2022, all Indians swore that HAL insiders proved that MAK1A had its maiden flight. However, we all know that its actual first flight time is April 2024. If we refer to the JF17block3 test flight time of about 3 years, the actual delivery time of MAK1A to IAF will not be earlier than the end of 2026. Of course, it is not ruled out that India will directly deliver it without completing all test flight subjects for publicity.
Or the Indians are going to create a miracle in the history of human aviation and fly all the test subjects in half a year
It will take time but we'll get there. The current GE fiasco has also made us more determined to operationalised our indigenous engine. This delay is painful but the final result is going to be sweet for us. You may not like it though!
Yeah, atleast we don't have to count serial numbers to figure out what's what.
First flight did happen in 2022 with modified LCA in the new MK1A configuration. In 2024 final product aircraft took first flight.
HAL is a listed company, they are required by law to give upto date information.
It is true that we need to use the production batch number to figure out how many fighters China is equipped with, but at least this is clear and there is no doubt. However, HAL prefers to use word games to play tricks on the Indians. Is there any difference between the so-called Tejas that adopts the MAK1A standard and the Tejas MAK1A? Perhaps only Lord Shiva can answer this question.
Serial numbers can't be fudged? To feed propaganda numbers of production they do all kind of quackery. These "professional serial number watchers" deduce without questioning it as that's illegal.How are you not understanding simple sentences? Mk1A do not have any airframe changes. Thus they flew earlier airframe with new subsystems for test flying. After validation they flew new production aircraft with upgrades.
Ah, you are right, China does not have any J-20 or J-16, those are all made of wood, India can rest assured, the number of Tejas fighters India has is not 32, but 32,000. As for why, of course, it is made up by the Indian government to prevent Indians from being too proud.
How are you not understanding simple sentences? Mk1A do not have any airframe changes. Thus they flew earlier airframe with new subsystems for test flying. After validation they flew new production aircraft with upgrades.
Ah, just believe it. In addition to changing the outdated radar, are there any other improvements to the Tejas Mark 1a? Is there an upgrade to the electronic countermeasure system? Is there an upgrade to the engine? Is there an upgrade to the flight control system? Is there an upgrade to the aerodynamic shape? Especially in the 21st century, a tailless delta-wing aerodynamic layout fighter that was already outdated in the 1970s is still in service.
Production can be scaled up once an order is placed. The second order of 97 is still pending.
It's an overblown issue. As we have noticed in the Ukraine war, weapons are playing a bigger role than platforms.
And air defense has nullified a lot of platform advantages. It's also led to a rethink of the USAF's NGAD.
The size of a military is based on the ability of the enemy to deploy to the battlefield, not the absolute size of its forces.
Even if PLAAF has 4000 jets, if the airspace can only fit 200 jets, then that's the limit. For example, only 4-8 jets are necessary to take care of a frontage that's 500 km across during air defense. And during engagement, another 8-10 jets will be scrambled, so the effective involvement over an entire sector is just 1 squadron.
So India needs 150 air superiority jets to stop the entire PLAAF. If we assume a war's fought for 2 weeks, then we will need 300 jets in total, considering 100% are lost. All numbers above that are for the IAF to maintain an aggressive posture. And the IAF probably believes 500 jets in total are enough for that. We need up to 1000 jets for a two-front long war, but Pakistan is not ready for that. So it means they need 400-500 for each enemy.
Furthermore, India has more defensible positions than China, so China needs more jets relative to India for air support and interdiction. Plus the plateau will also eat up more jets due to operational constraints and distances from air bases in the plains.
A larger force is only necessary for attrition warfare. Neither China nor India are ready for that at this time.
Unlike IAF, PLAAF has to compete with the US, a force that's located far away, so more jets are necessary.
The Russians are facing issues with training and deployment, not technology.
And Su-30SM's defensive suite is Russian, whereas MKI's is Indian.
Russia's main air superiority fighters are still Su-35 and Mig-31 because that's their role. Russia trains its pilots for a specific role, their training is not suitable for aircraft like the Su-30SM. They are still learning at this stage. Let's not forget that the Su-30SM is also a relatively new jet for them. China also uses role-specific aircraft. Even for the USAF, multirole is a new concept for their air superiority fighter pilots, and it's limited in functionality.
Among P5+India, ever since BVR was invented, only France and India are properly trained in multirole operations. For the other 4 countries, it's a new concept.
Incorrect. Modi's reforms have very different reasons, not necessarily military reasons.
For now, we do not know the effectiveness of the new recruitment system in an operational environment, but India's original system was created through winning multiple wars since the 18th century. The Indian Army has won all the wars its fought since World War 2. A lot of our current units have a history of 150 to 300 years.
Furthermore, due to caste system, we have always used professional armies since 3500 years at the minimum, so it's already part of time-tested Hindu tradition. The only exception is soldiers before modern armies trained from when they were 6 years old.
During the Vedic period, Indian society was a democracy, and the leader was elected, and he did not have an army to command, soldiers were provided by society through a professional system and was commanded by a general, much like how it works today. Wars were not initiated by the leader, but by 2 councils, one was headed by eldest members of society (upper house) and another was elected by the people (lower house). Criminal justice was provided by a court and there was separation of religion and state, until Buddhism created the first theocracy. There were also no slaves in India until Islam. It is this system that led to India dominating the world for over 3500 years, until Islamic rule began. Buddhism had made India weak over time. Then, 1800 years later, the Americans adopted the same system India had originally created.
So we are using time-tested traditions even today.
In the modern era, since we cannot militarily train children due to international laws, the army has set up army schools to train kids from when they are 12 years old. So we have found a workaround for this system, at least for officers.
I think the 8 hours and 5 hours are for MKI. For LCA, it may not take more than 1 hour for full replacement. F-16's engine is also 1 hour.
Mk1A development airfcraft first flew in 2022. In 2024, it was the first flight of a production aircraft meant for delivery to the air force.
First delivery is delayed because the IAF has asked to complete some software testing before delivery, when the earlier schedule called for testing after delivery of the first 2-3 jets. It concerns the AESA radar and EW suite. So the problem is in the imported systems. The aircraft itself is ready.
Thanks. Was away due to work.
Not wholly Indian yet. We're still using the SAP518+ Tarang combo on the MKI. Qualifying an upscaled indigenous jamming pod derived from the MK1A program is likely going to take time. Been reading about the MKI getting towed Rafael X-Guard decoys but could just be a rumour.
EW is one area the MKI is very vulnerable imho. No MAWS or expendable decoys like the ALE-50, for example.
Remember reading about a podded/pylon mounted MAWS (Elisra?) being trialled on the MKI. Current status unknown.
If we plan to use the type through 2055, the EW suite needs special attention. It'd be great to port the DIRCM from the Su-57 over to the MKI. Could cause structural issues though.