LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

Not wholly Indian yet. We're still using the SAP518+ Tarang combo on the MKI. Qualifying an upscaled indigenous jamming pod derived from the MK1A program is likely going to take time. Been reading about the MKI getting towed Rafael X-Guard decoys but could just be a rumour.

EW is one area the MKI is very vulnerable imho. No MAWS or expendable decoys like the ALE-50, for example.

Remember reading about a podded/pylon mounted MAWS (Elisra?) being trialled on the MKI. Current status unknown.

If we plan to use the type through 2055, the EW suite needs special attention. It'd be great to port the DIRCM from the Su-57 over to the MKI. Could cause structural issues though.
Tarang has been replaced with, first 4-channel R118, then 6-channel R118 and now with fully-digital RWR DR-118 Dhruti. Contract was signed for 129 RWRs way back in March 2023:


Post Ukraine war, SAP-518 is compromised now and IAF just say MKIed it. Don't worry, even current MKI's EW capabilities are formidable. Dual HBJ GaN pods are for UPG. version and are designed to work with even more advance Digital RWR-NG that can intercept frequencies from 1 to 40GHz just like Rafale's SPECTRA.
 
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Not wholly Indian yet. We're still using the SAP518+ Tarang combo on the MKI. Qualifying an upscaled indigenous jamming pod derived from the MK1A program is likely going to take time. Been reading about the MKI getting towed Rafael X-Guard decoys but could just be a rumour.

EW is one area the MKI is very vulnerable imho. No MAWS or expendable decoys like the ALE-50, for example.

Remember reading about a podded/pylon mounted MAWS (Elisra?) being trialled on the MKI. Current status unknown.

If we plan to use the type through 2055, the EW suite needs special attention. It'd be great to port the DIRCM from the Su-57 over to the MKI. Could cause structural issues though.

MKIs also use EL/L-8222. You can expect more advanced cousins having been integrated since 2007 as well.

MKI.png


As for upgrades, MAWS will be podded. New EW suite will be fully Indian. There will also be a towed decoy from Israel. Expendable RF decoys like BriteCloud may also be used, but there's no news regarding that, possibly distant future.
 
Since we are on the topic of EW, any news about the Mayawi suite supposedly being developed in a joint venture with the Isrealis? Remember reading a piece by Vivek Raghuvanshi about it. This was a while ago. Probably superseded by other programme by now.
 
As for upgrades, MAWS will be podded. New EW suite will be fully Indian. There will also be a towed decoy from Israel. Expendable RF decoys like BriteCloud may also be used, but there's no news regarding that, possibly distant future.
The IAF has probably not found a MAWS yet that fully meets its requirements. They trialled the MILDS-F and an Isreali MAWS with DRDO involvement as per reports but coverage issues have apparently stalled progress. They chose not to implement the SAAB/Denel Avitronics MAWS on the Su-30MKM. What bothers me is that the aircraft has been in IAF service since 2001, and doesn't have a proper MAWS yet.
 
Since we are on the topic of EW, any news about the Mayawi suite supposedly being developed in a joint venture with the Isrealis? Remember reading a piece by Vivek Raghuvanshi about it. This was a while ago. Probably superseded by other programme by now.
We did take the help of Israelis in development of our GaN ASPJ pods. Earlier the cooling system was imported from Israel. But now the entire EW for Tejas MK1A, MK2 & MKI UPG. is 100% indigenous. Mayavi, Navchakshu etc. names are given for the same.
The IAF has probably not found a MAWS yet that fully meets its requirements. They trialled the MILDS-F and an Isreali MAWS with DRDO involvement as per reports but coverage issues have apparently stalled progress. They chose not to implement the SAAB/Denel Avitronics MAWS on the Su-30MKM. What bothers me is that the aircraft has been in IAF service since 2001, and doesn't have a proper MAWS yet.
MKI will get podded DC-MAWS in due course. It is far more advance than what is on MKM.
 
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The IAF has probably not found a MAWS yet that fully meets its requirements. They trialled the MILDS-F and an Isreali MAWS with DRDO involvement as per reports but coverage issues have apparently stalled progress. They chose not to implement the SAAB/Denel Avitronics MAWS on the Su-30MKM. What bothers me is that the aircraft has been in IAF service since 2001, and doesn't have a proper MAWS yet.

That's 'cause the IAF wants a kicka*s MAWS without changing much of the airframe, which is not possible with current levels of tech. And the IAF would rather make-do without MAWS so pilots don't become complacent by assuming they are protected.

The Malaysian MAWS is UV-based while the IAF wants IR. They were fine with Typhoon's RF MAWS.

Anyway, even internationally, MAWS tech still needs some work. Drones will gain more importance for us anyway.
 
That's 'cause the IAF wants a kicka*s MAWS without changing much of the airframe, which is not possible with current levels of tech. And the IAF would rather make-do without MAWS so pilots don't become complacent by assuming they are protected.

The Malaysian MAWS is UV-based while the IAF wants IR. They were fine with Typhoon's RF MAWS.

Anyway, even internationally, MAWS tech still needs some work. Drones will gain more importance for us anyway.
Hope that doesn't force us to play defensive during the next Balakot. The Pakistanis would have liked nothing better than to scalp one our of prized MKIs that day.

The IAF didn't even ask for one on the Tejas Mk1A though that's probably because of size, weight or power reasons. It's only the Rafale and soon the Tejas Mk2 that'll have them from day one.

I'm just nitpicking here...but look at how menacing the Isreali F-16I Sufa looks with those large MAWS/EW blisters just behind the nose plus that chunky spine that probably carries EW gear. I'd say the IAF is being very conservative though they probably have good reasons for it.
 
Hope that doesn't force us to play defensive during the next Balakot. The Pakistanis would have liked nothing better than to scalp one our of prized MKIs that day.

The IAF didn't even ask for one on the Tejas Mk1A though that's probably because of size, weight or power reasons. It's only the Rafale and soon the Tejas Mk2 that'll have them from day one.

I'm just nitpicking here...but look at how menacing the Isreali F-16I Sufa looks with those large MAWS/EW blisters just behind the nose plus that chunky spine that probably carries EW gear. I'd say the IAF is being very conservative though they probably have good reasons for it.

MAWS is primarily necessary for strike jets that operate low, like SUFA, due to low reaction time required to deal with SAMs and MANPADS. The RWR is much more important for BVR combat. For WVR, the pilot is far too busy relying on his instincts over sensors, not to mention it will be quite uncommon.

Today only Gripen E and Rafale can use MAWS reliably. It's still WIP for the rest, including the F-35.

And the workaround for this is not MKI MLU, but buying more Rafales and LCA Mk2s.
 
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a silly quetion but what does the 97 tejas mk1a cleared means ? does it means we ordered the jet or it means we may order it if we need
Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) basically issued an Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for procurement of 97 Tejas Mk1A, meaning it cleared the decks for price negotiations between HAL and the Govt, once a common agreed price is met, then the case would be presented to the CCS for clearance.
Once CCS clears the procurement, the signing of the contract remains a mere formality.
 
Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) basically issued an Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for procurement of 97 Tejas Mk1A, meaning it cleared the decks for price negotiations between HAL and the Govt, once a common agreed price is met, then the case would be presented to the CCS for clearance.
Once CCS clears the procurement, the signing of the contract remains a mere formality.
so till when can we expect a forman contract singing as we alrealy have placed an order of 73 mk1a
 
Hope that doesn't force us to play defensive during the next Balakot. The Pakistanis would have liked nothing better than to scalp one our of prized MKIs that day.
Balakot was about lack of long-range BVRs which now we've access to.
The IAF didn't even ask for one on the Tejas Mk1A though that's probably because of size, weight or power reasons. It's only the Rafale and soon the Tejas Mk2 that'll have them from day one.
MAWS isn't important for BVR but digital-RWR is to intercept very low powered "Track while Scan" LPI signals. Most MAWS won't even catch BVRs as they would be in coast mode while approaching their target.
I'm just nitpicking here...but look at how menacing the Isreali F-16I Sufa looks with those large MAWS/EW blisters just behind the nose plus that chunky spine that probably carries EW gear. I'd say the IAF is being very conservative though they probably have good reasons for it.
Honestly, every other MAWS went out of fashion the moment F-35's EODAS went online. Everyone is playing catch-up now.

IAF doesn't want holes to be drilled on MKI otherwise DRDO did propose 6-channel internal DC-MAWS. Now both Tejas MK1A and MKI will get podded ones, which for their purpose shall suffice!
 
IAF doesn't want holes to be drilled on MKI otherwise DRDO did propose 6-channel internal DC-MAWS. Now both Tejas MK1A and MKI will get podded ones, which for their purpose shall suffice!

Can't imagine what kind of aerodynamic penalties that might impose. The IAF must have got some insight from the Malaysians. I just think that MAWS should be part of the basic EW fit of all IAF fighters given the high threat environment it operates in. Guess we'll know more as more details on the MKI UPG and Tejas Mk2 get revealed.
 
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His basic point about F-35 lacking maturity is correct. But tech wise EODAS is definitely more advance than DDM-NG. In Block-4, EODAS will witness even bigger update.
Can't imagine what kind of aerodynamic penalties that might impose. The IAF must have got some insight from the Malaysians. I just think that MAWS should be part of the basic EW fit of all IAF fighters given the high threat environment it operates in. Guess we'll know more as more details on the MKI UPG and Tejas Mk2 get revealed.
RMAF MKM pulls maneuvers upto 13G as per their declassified report. I think IAF should have gone ahead with internal 6-channel DC-MAWS even if it mean drilling holes. But then it's upto them as they are the end users.
 
His basic point about F-35 lacking maturity is correct. But tech wise EODAS is definitely more advance than DDM-NG. In Block-4, EODAS will witness even bigger update.
I don't know what the EODAS update will be, but what I do know is that the DDM NGs have two fisheye sensors, each with 180° coverage, which is 360° like the EODAS. Of course the image is a little distorted and would not be easily exploited by a human, but it is exploited by SPECTRA which is not at all bothered by this characteristic. The French system is less spectacular but just as effective and much cheaper. What's more, it's been working for a long time.
 
I don't know what the EODAS update will be, but what I do know is that the DDM NGs have two fisheye sensors, each with 180° coverage, which is 360° like the EODAS. Of course the image is a little distorted and would not be easily exploited by a human, but it is exploited by SPECTRA which is not at all bothered by this characteristic. The French system is less spectacular but just as effective and much cheaper. What's more, it's been working for a long time.
DDM-NG's capabilities are not in question as it can even generate "over the shoulder" firing solution to the pilot working with SPECTRA. But honestly if we look at its coverage, those two Vertical tail mounted fish-eye sensors can't provide full spherical coverage like those 6 DAS IR cameras can do for F-35. So while being most advance, they still aren't as advance or capable as EODAS.

Here is what DDM-NG coverage is like(using old DDM's coverage for example):

Screenshot_20240809-085412_Chrome.jpg


Screenshot_20240809-085359_Chrome.jpg



Versus F-35's full spherical coverage which leaves no blind spots:

Screenshot_20240809-085332_Chrome.jpg


EODAS is more advance than DDM-NG in both design and function. That's why every 5th gen fighter now will get such a system. It has now, kind of, became a holy grail for all future MAWS.
 
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image-DDMNG-1024x568.png


It should be noted that these images are taken from a film presented by MBDA some time ago. Observe the shape of the sun, very round: this implies that the sensor is very difficult to saturate and has very low remanence (otherwise we would see a trail at the location of the sun).
So what is the matrix sensor allowing images of such quality? It is likely that this sensor comes from the French infrared matrix sector SOFRADIR.

Brazilian news agency Defesanet has published a very comprehensive test of the Rafale B301 (Dassault’s “experimental” aircraft) in its latest configuration by test pilot Vianney Riller Jr. During this test, he describes a simulated launch with the target located at his six o’clock (behind him) of a MICA missile, using ONLY SPECTRA’s passive sensors and data fusion. From the tactical situation photo published in this article we can see that SPECTRA includes infrared data in its visualization. According to information gathered, this launch was indeed carried out using (at least in part) the DDM NG as a passive sensor, integrated into SPECTRA’s data fusion, well beyond ten nautical miles.

After checking with state and industrial sources, we can exclusively state that the DDM NG is much more than it seems. It directly participates in the detection, identification and targeting capabilities of the Rafale.

Fully integrated into SPECTRA, it therefore has detection capabilities similar to those of the F35's EODAS: 360° surveillance and perception of the environment (or almost, there is a gray area at the wings, see the photo above), threat location, classification and targeting, and participation in the development of air-to-air and air-to-ground firing solutions.