LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

DDM-NG basically does everything the EODAS does from the PoV of a computer. The EODAS goes one step further by delivering its image to the pilot at the push of a button. The lack of blindspots is an advantage, plus the EODAS is gonna receive a major upgrade over the next 2 years. But the Rafale pilots have the option of getting a higher quality image via the FSO, frontal sector only, albeit the most important sector.

The next evolution for MAWS is when it's paired with DIRCM. It basically shoots a laser into the IR seeker of a missile. Nobody has introduced this on fighters yet.
 
DDM-NG basically does everything the EODAS does from the PoV of a computer. The EODAS goes one step further by delivering its image to the pilot at the push of a button. The lack of blindspots is an advantage, plus the EODAS is gonna receive a major upgrade over the next 2 years. But the Rafale pilots have the option of getting a higher quality image via the FSO, frontal sector only, albeit the most important sector.

The next evolution for MAWS is when it's paired with DIRCM. It basically shoots a laser into the IR seeker of a missile. Nobody has introduced this on fighters yet.
EODAS is also fused with EOTS and has access to its IR images and zoom facility. However in Block-4, both EODAS and EOTS are going to receive upgrades that make them far more potent than what they're now!

PS: Sorry mods for going OT🙏🙏
 
EODAS is also fused with EOTS and has access to its IR images and zoom facility. However in Block-4, both EODAS and EOTS are going to receive upgrades that make them far more potent than what they're now!

PS: Sorry mods for going OT🙏🙏

Yes, but the difference is the Rafale's had it since 2004, the F-35 has a barely functioning system even in 2024. The rest of the US fleet lacks this capability outside some recent half-as*ed workarounds.

So while the EODAS and EOTS combo are great, definitely a step up over the Rafale, it's still WIP. We may see both fully functional in just 2 or 3 years though. But, regardless of the F-35's superiority, a Rafale pilot still has access to a functional capability similar to EODAS via FSO that can exploited by a pilot. In the future, even if the Rafale does not get it, drones will.
 
another question whats te combat radius of tejas mk1a with and without external fuel tanks

Google for basic range of a fighter jet, that's without any external fuel, and take 40% of that.

Regardless of the answer you find, the functional range of the LCA Mk1A is within 200 km of an air base. The reason being most air bases we have are very close to our borders and aircraft need to operate close to their maintenance centers.

For example, our Mig-29 base is just 100 km away from the Pak border, and the post-Balakot skirmish took place just 200-250 km away from it, which explains the reason why Mig-29s were also sent to assist.

These are 200 km circles.
radius.png


So for a Mig-29, radius is of little consequence. A pair can take off and just circle somewhere around their own base for the next hour with half its tank to spare. LCA is pretty similar to the Mig-29.

Most of our air force's job during war is to defend the air space and kill enemy soldiers and logistics. Which is why the most important factors are turnaround times and ease of maintenance to generate higher sortie rates. Alternatively, in-flight refuelling will increase on-station time rather than combar radius, so aircraft and ground crew are less exposed on the ground.

Very few squadrons are dedicated for grander missions, like the M2000s in Gwalior and MKIs in Lohegaon. These missions take time and a lot of resources and an entire army of people have to follow them around, including many meeting them half-way across multiple bases. So these guys need combat radius.
 
Fully integrated into SPECTRA, it therefore has detection capabilities similar to those of the F35's EODAS: 360° surveillance and perception of the environment (or almost, there is a gray area at the wings, see the photo above), threat location, classification and targeting, and participation in the development of air-to-air and air-to-ground firing solutions.
Not only DDM-NG is integrated into Spectra but also other IR/OPTICAL like MICA IR sensors even during rafale flight and not only when it is launched from the rafale, the Talios and RECCO NG pods are also already integrated, with F4 all other plateform will also provide other optical/IR stream.

EODAS/HMDS/CANOPY/PILOT is a system that work together ... The pilot can't look behind him and in fact must rely on its internal screen to have a picture of what happen behind him, exactly like the rafale pilot.


In May 2022, thanks to extra-budgetary resources supplemented by the sale of 12 Rafale aircraft to Croatia, the French defense procurement agency (Direction Générale de l'Armement - DGA) ordered 21 TALIOS optronic pods from Thales for 100 million euros, with the aim of having 67 of these pods available for the needs of the French air force (Armée de l'Air & de l'Espace - AAE) and naval aviation.

This new order was eagerly awaited, as several parliamentary reports in recent years have deplored the lack of laser designation pods, and the low availability rate [34% by 2021] of the oldest ones, which are also ill-suited to current operational requirements.

The TALIOS [TArgeting Long-range Identification Optronic System] nacelle marks a quantum leap in capability, thanks to its high-performance, high-resolution electro-optical and infrared sensors. It enables long-range strikes to be carried out in parallel with reconnaissance missions, with the information it gathers transmitted in real time. Finally, its SmartFleet predictive maintenance system increases its availability rate.

"We will also have 51 Talios pods by 2026. No patrol will take off without a Talios pod, whereas today we're scrambling to get one in the right place at the right time", General Stéphane Mille, Chief of Staff of the French Air & Space Force [CEMAAE], recently told MPs.

He went on to explain: "Feedback has taught us just how important these pods are: originally designed to recognize a target for a ground attack, they have proved their worth for visual identification, for example. Our Rafales returning from Lithuania used them to visually identify the Sukhoi aircraft they were intercepting. During our missions in Iraq and Syria, we realized that this pod could be used for intelligence purposes. It wasn't at the heart of the mission, but we were watching and learning things... So we're building up to it as we go along.

That said, the Rafale is also equipped with the new-generation RECO NG strategic aerial reconnaissance pod. It can take photos at high and very low altitudes, day and night. And it can target a target - or even several targets - from different angles in a single flight, thanks to its 180°-rotating optical sensors.

But in future, the TALIOS and RECO NG gondolas will become one.

According to the activity report just published by the French Defense Innovation Agency [AID], Thales LAS has been commissioned to carry out studies as part of the "Pod TR" project, aimed at developing a new designation and reconnaissance pod for the Rafale F5. The aim is to carry out "architecture, maturity and debris removal work" in order to "prepare for development from 2026/2027".

The AID explains that this TR Pod will perform "detection, reconnaissance, identification and localization of targets in real time", and will therefore merge the capabilities of the TALIOS and RECO-NG pods.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
 
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Here is what DDM-NG coverage is like(using old DDM's coverage for example):
??
You are showing MICA IR sensor coverage on a M2000.
This is not DDM-NG coverage on a rafale. But this is nice to see since MICA IR sensors are also use in the rafale's data fusion engine. Meanwhile There are some differences between rafale and M2000. THe bigeest differences is that MICA are use at the very end of the wigttip on the rafale but not on the M2000. And of course that makes a far bigger FoV.

Without any doubt with the image shown by Picdel each DDM-NG has a 180° FoV.
 
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One of the primary reasons why I only spoke about Gripen E and Rafale. Modern systems with future-ready technologies. Most other air forces have DDM-equivalent or lesser, like UV. What's interesting is Qatari, Singaporean and Saudi F-15s have UV-MAWS, but MAWS seem to have been omitted on the EX, perhaps for a future IR upgrade.

The MKI would have had an even more capable system than Rafale via DC-MAWS, but the IAF was worried about cutting bigger holes than necessary, which impacted flight performance, plus the Russians were threatening to cut OEM support.

In February 2013, DARE approached the Su-30MKI’s OEM (OKB Sukhoi and IRKUT Corp) for expert review and clearance of the proposal for aircraft modification to integrate DC-MAWS sensors. In May 2013, the OEM clarified that the integration of DC MAWS sensors would significantly affect the Su-30MKI’s flight performance since the DARE-recommended installation locations were highly sub-optimal.
As a consequence of this, DARE has developed a DC-MAWS suite installation package that does not have the support of OKB Sukhoi and will therefore be regarded as an unauthorised and non-certified fitment, which in turn will lead to both OKB Sukhoi and IRKUT Corp withdrawing their airworthiness certifications for all such modified Su-30MKIs. The total product liability, therefore, will rest squarely on the shoulders of DARE and HAL, with devastating consequences for the IAF and its entire Su-30MKI fleet.

At worst, the IAF could have modified 1 or 2 squadrons for strike missions, similar to SUFA, had the Russians supported it.

I won't be surprised if ADA chooses Israel's PAWS-2 for LCA Mk2, the same as Gripen E. It's an EODAS equivalent system, is internal and can be exploited by the pilot. MKI and Mk1A could get podded equivalents.
 
image-DDMNG-1024x568.png


It should be noted that these images are taken from a film presented by MBDA some time ago. Observe the shape of the sun, very round: this implies that the sensor is very difficult to saturate and has very low remanence (otherwise we would see a trail at the location of the sun).
So what is the matrix sensor allowing images of such quality? It is likely that this sensor comes from the French infrared matrix sector SOFRADIR.

Brazilian news agency Defesanet has published a very comprehensive test of the Rafale B301 (Dassault’s “experimental” aircraft) in its latest configuration by test pilot Vianney Riller Jr. During this test, he describes a simulated launch with the target located at his six o’clock (behind him) of a MICA missile, using ONLY SPECTRA’s passive sensors and data fusion. From the tactical situation photo published in this article we can see that SPECTRA includes infrared data in its visualization. According to information gathered, this launch was indeed carried out using (at least in part) the DDM NG as a passive sensor, integrated into SPECTRA’s data fusion, well beyond ten nautical miles.

After checking with state and industrial sources, we can exclusively state that the DDM NG is much more than it seems. It directly participates in the detection, identification and targeting capabilities of the Rafale.

Fully integrated into SPECTRA, it therefore has detection capabilities similar to those of the F35's EODAS: 360° surveillance and perception of the environment (or almost, there is a gray area at the wings, see the photo above), threat location, classification and targeting, and participation in the development of air-to-air and air-to-ground firing solutions.
Here are the coordinate of the second image :
43°26'48"N 4°25'43"E Saint-Marie-de-la-Mer.
 
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I won't be surprised if ADA chooses Israel's PAWS-2 for LCA Mk2, the same as Gripen E. It's an EODAS equivalent system, is internal and can be exploited by the pilot. MKI and Mk1A could get podded equivalents.
The IAF clearly has a preference for non-emitting MAWS or it wouldn't have waited 30 years to outfit the MKIs. Perhaps something derived from the Su-35 or even Su-57 would fit the bill? Problem is the Russians are well behind the West in terms of sensor packaging and performance.

Wonder how they let the Malaysians fit a Swedish/South African solution to their MKM birds?
 
The IAF clearly has a preference for non-emitting MAWS or it wouldn't have waited 30 years to outfit the MKIs. Perhaps something derived from the Su-35 or even Su-57 would fit the bill? Problem is the Russians are well behind the West in terms of sensor packaging and performance.

Su-35 and 57 use UV MAWS.

UV is also passive. It just has a very small range and its main purpose is defending the aircraft from short-range SAMs and other missiles fired from close range, so it's not particularly very effective against BVR missiles. Otoh, it has far fewer false positives and works in any weather condition because UV can go through clouds, dust and smoke, similar to RF.

IR comes with tremendous range and works against many types of threats, including BVR. A DC-MAWS goes a step further compared to DDM-NG. It can both detect the launch of BVR as well as when it's at cruise. DDM-NG only works effectively at cruise.

Wonder how they let the Malaysians fit a Swedish/South African solution to their MKM birds?

MAWS 300 is UV-based and is very small, so smaller holes.

Only speculations. Russia was probably aiming for India to choose their MAWS that they developed for the Su-35, although it was well behind our requirements. They may have possibly looked towards a JV that they could have introduced themselves on the Su-30SM. Or it simply didn't work out due to the loss of performance, which could have made the aircraft dangerous to fly.
 
Or it simply didn't work out due to the loss of performance, which could have made the aircraft dangerous to fly.
Doesn't the MAWS on the Su-35 only provide coverage in the forward hemisphere? Imo the IAF would probably steer clear of it anyway since the PLAAF already flies them. The Su-57 systems are unproven as on date and would probably need customisation and testing to suit Indian conditions.

Would be interesting to see what route they finally end up taking!
 
@randomradio

Su-35S uses IR-band MAWS and not UV like Su-57:

The I-222 SOER (Sistema Optiko-elektronnoi Razvedki) electro-optical reconnaissance suite includes six mid-wave IR SOAR (Stantsiya Obnaruzheniya Atakuyushchikh Raket) missile approach warning sensors and two SOLO (Stantsiya Obnaruzheniya Lazernogo Oblucheniya) laser warning sensors, covering the full sphere around the jet.


Link: Sukhoi Su-35 The Ultimate Flanker

There is no source more reliable or more knowledgeable about Su-35S than Piotr Butowski.
 
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DDM means Détecteur de Départ de Missile (Missile Departure Detector)

Ah, cool. It appears DDM-NG is MWIR, no different from EODAS.

Then it can detect BVR launches at long range and its effective range for low temp targets is just 25-30 kms.

EODAS is getting a dual channel upgrade though, so both short range and long range.
 
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The IAF clearly has a preference for non-emitting MAWS or it wouldn't have waited 30 years to outfit the MKIs.
Perhaps MAWS isn't that important for them or else they could have gone for UV-based MKM set-up which was already certified by UAC.
Perhaps something derived from the Su-35 or even Su-57 would fit the bill?
No.
Problem is the Russians are well behind the West in terms of sensor packaging and performance.
DC-MAWS is better than its Russian counterpart. IR MAWS suffers from false alarms as it's not sun-blind like UV ones. But since DC-MAWS scans in both Red/Blue colour spectrum of MWIR, it has literally no false alarms.
Wonder how they let the Malaysians fit a Swedish/South African solution to their MKM birds?
Only reason they didn't allow DC-MAWS on our MKI is because they didn't want India to become free of their grip. DRDO proposed to drill the spine and lower underbody for DC-MAWS. These are the exact same places where MKM houses its MAWS and yet is able to pull 13G maneuvers, lol.
 
Doesn't the MAWS on the Su-35 only provide coverage in the forward hemisphere? Imo the IAF would probably steer clear of it anyway since the PLAAF already flies them. The Su-57 systems are unproven as on date and would probably need customisation and testing to suit Indian conditions.

Would be interesting to see what route they finally end up taking!

Su-35's is 360 deg with 6 sensors.

A lot of the Su-57's sensors need to be changed to accommodate Indian systems, that was the point of FGFA. It's no good in its current avatar, at least for India, and the Russians are developing more advanced variants on their own, including a two-seat version, so that's a future option.
 
Very few squadrons are dedicated for grander missions, like the M2000s in Gwalior and MKIs in Lohegaon. These missions take time and a lot of resources and an entire army of people have to follow them around, including many meeting them half-way across multiple bases. So these guys need combat radius.
Can you give some more information aboutt this i would really like to know
 
Perhaps MAWS isn't that important for them or else they could have gone for UV-based MKM set-up which was already certified by UAC.
Maybe it's a doctrinal thing. The IAF no longer sees itself doing low and slow CAS missions, barring helo ops like CSAR. The new crop of stand-off weapons like SAAW and Gautam should keep them out of most SAM zones (Crotale, et all). For high value targets, they'll likely be banking on the Rafale and later, AMCA.

Given the work that has gone into DC-MAWS, dual-band IRST, etc, how soon do you think we could develop a DIRCM for fighter class ac?
 
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