LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

[GuardianRED]

HAL ramps up Tejas production
Anantha Krishnan MNovember 11, 2018 05:01 PM IST

The assembly line of HAL's LCA Division is abuzz with activities with fighters till SP-16 under various stages of equipping. Photo Onmanorama.
Bengaluru: The activities at LCA Tejas Division of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have reached a fever pitch. The engineers, designers and the shop floor crew are committed to beat the March, 2019, deadline and deliver the remaining five Tejas fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The IAF pilots from Flying Daggers are warming up to ferry out a new fighter from Tejas production line to AFS Sulur, the home of No 45 Squadron, Flying Daggers.

The squadron will get one more flying machine in two weeks after the Test Pilots complete the mandatory Customer Acceptance Flight (CAF).

Tejas fighters SP-12 and SP-14 being readied at HAL's LCA Division in Bengaluru. Photo Onmanorama.

The fighters from SP-12 to SP-16, the remaining from the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block are all on the final equipping phase. While SP-12, SP-14 and SP-16 are with the LCA Tejas Division, SP-13 and SP-15 are with the second production line at the Aircraft Division.

This is the first time ever that the Tejas production line at HAL is witnessing so much of activities. There is a renewed energy seen all over and better synergy between all the stakeholders.

The recent review of the project by Dr Ajay Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production), is said to have given clarity to all stakeholders to overcome the bottlenecks and to find a way forward for stepped-up Tejas production. His interactions and assurances seem to have boosted the morale of team HAL.

“The production rate of IOC fighters has been really ramped up at the LCA Tejas Division. Starting from one aircraft in 2015-16, it has been gradually increased to two and five aircraft in the next two production years. During 2018-19 fiscal, we are confident of delivering eight aircraft. We had our share of issues in the past and all that is now sorted out,” said an official.

The SP-12 fighter is ready to undergo a full performance EGR (engine ground run) signalling that it will be ready to kiss the skies for the first time in a week.

Tejas fighter SP-13 at advanced stages of equipping at HAL's second production line at Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

HAL officials say that SP-13 and SP-15 will be ready for maiden flights in December. The Aircraft Division will hand over these two fighters to the Tejas Division after conducting the HSTT (high-speed taxi trials).

Tejas fighter SP-15 being readied at HAL's Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

What clicked for LCA Division

After having taken the hit from all corners for poor delivery of Tejas, HAL handpicked some of the best brains and made them part of programme at the LCA Division. Huge strides have been made now on improving the supply chain management and most importantly the follow-up mechanisms.

The man who heads the LCA Division P G Yogindra, an Executive Director, is said to have a played stellar role at the Hawk assembly lines, ensuring deliveries ahead of the schedule. His expertise in supply chain management is coming handy for the Tejas project now.

The review mechanism, delegation of responsibilities, increased interaction with vendors and fast-tracking of part supplies have propelled the Tejas production plans.

As a result, the assembly cycle time and waiting period for parts have been reduced – an accusation often HAL faced in the past. “We have made all efforts to ramp up the production in phases. Now, we are able to source items in advance. The front fuselage structure of Tejas now takes 53 days to be completed and this used to take four to five months in the past. Various teams have sat down and brain-stormed and we have found many answers,” said an official.

HAL is awaiting a major milestone when L&T Aerospace delivers the wings of Tejas. This it says will be a major step in Make in India and its partnership with a private industry. The last fighter in the IOC series SP-16 will be the first to be integrated with the wings from L&T.

FOC fighters join the party

The team at LCA Tejas Division is excited as they have begun the preparations for producing the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) variants of Tejas. While the FOC announcement is expected next month, the division has already begun advanced stages of production of 10 sets of detail parts.

The assembly of two sets of air fame have already started for SP-21 and SP-22. The parts for SP-23 and SP-24 will be up by the first week of December.

The provisional DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for FOC fighters were released in October, 2017, and the amended one in August, 2018. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

“Structural assembly of major modules such as front fuselage, (FF), centre fuselage (CF) and rear fuselage (RF) of SP-21 onwards are already under progress, in the structural assembly hanger of LCA Tejas Division. Incidentally, the floor assembly of SP-21 FF Stage-1 has been provisionally cleared by qualifying authorities which is a significant milestone towards our FOC missions,” added the official.

HAL says that the first FOC fighter (SP-21) will fly out by October, 2019. It is hopeful of creating a new benchmark by delivering 16 aircraft during 2019-20 fiscal.

As reported by Onmanorama earlier, IAF and HAL seem to have ironed out their differences over Tejas trainers.

It is expected that the DAL or the build-standard of eight trainers in the FOC version will be now be ready by February, 2019, and the first plane will be likely available to IAF by September, 2021.

The 1,000-plus workforce of LCA Tejas Division probably is aware that the future of HAL is currently hinged on to their performances. A plane not wanted by many till recently has suddenly become the hope for a company, its user and the nation.

The upgraded versions of Tejas set to fly out in the future will be a testimony to the belief that making is better than buying.

HAL ramps up Tejas production | HAL | production | Tejas

Im always super impressed with Anantha Krishnan. Pretty sure - he is the only reporter that follows up and give genuine updates on the LCA program and its current status!!.

The pics are a welcome sight!!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think you're wrong out here. While you're right that a few months delay would hardly make a difference to the overall program, it's the credibility of the ADA which is at stake here. One more delay & they'd be the laughing stock of the entire world. I sincerely hope & wish they stick to the original deadline.

Too late for that, mate.

ADA and deadlines are like oil and water, fire and ice, you and GND.

Well there have been a long list of reasons why but let's not get into that and look foreward.

HAL ramps up Tejas production
Anantha Krishnan MNovember 11, 2018 05:01 PM IST

The assembly line of HAL's LCA Division is abuzz with activities with fighters till SP-16 under various stages of equipping. Photo Onmanorama.
Bengaluru: The activities at LCA Tejas Division of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have reached a fever pitch. The engineers, designers and the shop floor crew are committed to beat the March, 2019, deadline and deliver the remaining five Tejas fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The IAF pilots from Flying Daggers are warming up to ferry out a new fighter from Tejas production line to AFS Sulur, the home of No 45 Squadron, Flying Daggers.

The squadron will get one more flying machine in two weeks after the Test Pilots complete the mandatory Customer Acceptance Flight (CAF).

Tejas fighters SP-12 and SP-14 being readied at HAL's LCA Division in Bengaluru. Photo Onmanorama.

The fighters from SP-12 to SP-16, the remaining from the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block are all on the final equipping phase. While SP-12, SP-14 and SP-16 are with the LCA Tejas Division, SP-13 and SP-15 are with the second production line at the Aircraft Division.

This is the first time ever that the Tejas production line at HAL is witnessing so much of activities. There is a renewed energy seen all over and better synergy between all the stakeholders.

The recent review of the project by Dr Ajay Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production), is said to have given clarity to all stakeholders to overcome the bottlenecks and to find a way forward for stepped-up Tejas production. His interactions and assurances seem to have boosted the morale of team HAL.

“The production rate of IOC fighters has been really ramped up at the LCA Tejas Division. Starting from one aircraft in 2015-16, it has been gradually increased to two and five aircraft in the next two production years. During 2018-19 fiscal, we are confident of delivering eight aircraft. We had our share of issues in the past and all that is now sorted out,” said an official.

The SP-12 fighter is ready to undergo a full performance EGR (engine ground run) signalling that it will be ready to kiss the skies for the first time in a week.

Tejas fighter SP-13 at advanced stages of equipping at HAL's second production line at Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

HAL officials say that SP-13 and SP-15 will be ready for maiden flights in December. The Aircraft Division will hand over these two fighters to the Tejas Division after conducting the HSTT (high-speed taxi trials).

Tejas fighter SP-15 being readied at HAL's Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

What clicked for LCA Division

After having taken the hit from all corners for poor delivery of Tejas, HAL handpicked some of the best brains and made them part of programme at the LCA Division. Huge strides have been made now on improving the supply chain management and most importantly the follow-up mechanisms.

The man who heads the LCA Division P G Yogindra, an Executive Director, is said to have a played stellar role at the Hawk assembly lines, ensuring deliveries ahead of the schedule. His expertise in supply chain management is coming handy for the Tejas project now.

The review mechanism, delegation of responsibilities, increased interaction with vendors and fast-tracking of part supplies have propelled the Tejas production plans.

As a result, the assembly cycle time and waiting period for parts have been reduced – an accusation often HAL faced in the past. “We have made all efforts to ramp up the production in phases. Now, we are able to source items in advance. The front fuselage structure of Tejas now takes 53 days to be completed and this used to take four to five months in the past. Various teams have sat down and brain-stormed and we have found many answers,” said an official.

HAL is awaiting a major milestone when L&T Aerospace delivers the wings of Tejas. This it says will be a major step in Make in India and its partnership with a private industry. The last fighter in the IOC series SP-16 will be the first to be integrated with the wings from L&T.

FOC fighters join the party

The team at LCA Tejas Division is excited as they have begun the preparations for producing the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) variants of Tejas. While the FOC announcement is expected next month, the division has already begun advanced stages of production of 10 sets of detail parts.

The assembly of two sets of air fame have already started for SP-21 and SP-22. The parts for SP-23 and SP-24 will be up by the first week of December.

The provisional DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for FOC fighters were released in October, 2017, and the amended one in August, 2018. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

“Structural assembly of major modules such as front fuselage, (FF), centre fuselage (CF) and rear fuselage (RF) of SP-21 onwards are already under progress, in the structural assembly hanger of LCA Tejas Division. Incidentally, the floor assembly of SP-21 FF Stage-1 has been provisionally cleared by qualifying authorities which is a significant milestone towards our FOC missions,” added the official.

HAL says that the first FOC fighter (SP-21) will fly out by October, 2019. It is hopeful of creating a new benchmark by delivering 16 aircraft during 2019-20 fiscal.

As reported by Onmanorama earlier, IAF and HAL seem to have ironed out their differences over Tejas trainers.

It is expected that the DAL or the build-standard of eight trainers in the FOC version will be now be ready by February, 2019, and the first plane will be likely available to IAF by September, 2021.

The 1,000-plus workforce of LCA Tejas Division probably is aware that the future of HAL is currently hinged on to their performances. A plane not wanted by many till recently has suddenly become the hope for a company, its user and the nation.

The upgraded versions of Tejas set to fly out in the future will be a testimony to the belief that making is better than buying.

HAL ramps up Tejas production | HAL | production | Tejas

Right,

So all SPs to SP-16 by March 2019 (let's say Mid-2019 just to be safe)

Then SP-21 (FOC) onwards will be delivered from Sept/Oct 2019

Sometime in 2020 work on the MK.1 trainers (SP 17-20, 37-40) commences for deliveries ending mid-2021.

Then production work on the MK.1As will commence and hopefully at this point (Nasik will also be online as an additional LCA division) HAL can ramp up to 16-20/year so by around 2024-25 production of MK.2 is ready.

This seems like a pretty doable and practical plan, I just hope HAL gets left alone so they can get their heads down and deliever.

As it stands Parrikar's move to greenlight the MK.1A was a masterstroke, it will allow HAL to ramp up and stabilise production ahead of the fighter the IAF really wants (MK.2) but whilst inducted still a pretty potent fighter with plenty of toys- the AESA radar particuarly is a real plus. It will bring AESA to the IAF's low-end fighter 4-5 years earlier than was planned and will also incentivise the development of UTTAM. Without the Mk.1A I'm not sure what would've happened in between the end of the 40 MK.1 production and commencment of MK.2's, maybe 40 more?

 

[Guynextdoor]

I’m surprised Hal doesn’t give people blue overalls as work clothes

 

[randomradio]

HAL ramps up Tejas production
Anantha Krishnan MNovember 11, 2018 05:01 PM IST

The assembly line of HAL's LCA Division is abuzz with activities with fighters till SP-16 under various stages of equipping. Photo Onmanorama.
Bengaluru: The activities at LCA Tejas Division of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) have reached a fever pitch. The engineers, designers and the shop floor crew are committed to beat the March, 2019, deadline and deliver the remaining five Tejas fighters to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

The IAF pilots from Flying Daggers are warming up to ferry out a new fighter from Tejas production line to AFS Sulur, the home of No 45 Squadron, Flying Daggers.

The squadron will get one more flying machine in two weeks after the Test Pilots complete the mandatory Customer Acceptance Flight (CAF).

Tejas fighters SP-12 and SP-14 being readied at HAL's LCA Division in Bengaluru. Photo Onmanorama.

The fighters from SP-12 to SP-16, the remaining from the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block are all on the final equipping phase. While SP-12, SP-14 and SP-16 are with the LCA Tejas Division, SP-13 and SP-15 are with the second production line at the Aircraft Division.

This is the first time ever that the Tejas production line at HAL is witnessing so much of activities. There is a renewed energy seen all over and better synergy between all the stakeholders.

The recent review of the project by Dr Ajay Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production), is said to have given clarity to all stakeholders to overcome the bottlenecks and to find a way forward for stepped-up Tejas production. His interactions and assurances seem to have boosted the morale of team HAL.

“The production rate of IOC fighters has been really ramped up at the LCA Tejas Division. Starting from one aircraft in 2015-16, it has been gradually increased to two and five aircraft in the next two production years. During 2018-19 fiscal, we are confident of delivering eight aircraft. We had our share of issues in the past and all that is now sorted out,” said an official.

The SP-12 fighter is ready to undergo a full performance EGR (engine ground run) signalling that it will be ready to kiss the skies for the first time in a week.

Tejas fighter SP-13 at advanced stages of equipping at HAL's second production line at Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

HAL officials say that SP-13 and SP-15 will be ready for maiden flights in December. The Aircraft Division will hand over these two fighters to the Tejas Division after conducting the HSTT (high-speed taxi trials).

Tejas fighter SP-15 being readied at HAL's Aircraft Division. Photo Onmanorama.

What clicked for LCA Division

After having taken the hit from all corners for poor delivery of Tejas, HAL handpicked some of the best brains and made them part of programme at the LCA Division. Huge strides have been made now on improving the supply chain management and most importantly the follow-up mechanisms.

The man who heads the LCA Division P G Yogindra, an Executive Director, is said to have a played stellar role at the Hawk assembly lines, ensuring deliveries ahead of the schedule. His expertise in supply chain management is coming handy for the Tejas project now.

The review mechanism, delegation of responsibilities, increased interaction with vendors and fast-tracking of part supplies have propelled the Tejas production plans.

As a result, the assembly cycle time and waiting period for parts have been reduced – an accusation often HAL faced in the past. “We have made all efforts to ramp up the production in phases. Now, we are able to source items in advance. The front fuselage structure of Tejas now takes 53 days to be completed and this used to take four to five months in the past. Various teams have sat down and brain-stormed and we have found many answers,” said an official.

HAL is awaiting a major milestone when L&T Aerospace delivers the wings of Tejas. This it says will be a major step in Make in India and its partnership with a private industry. The last fighter in the IOC series SP-16 will be the first to be integrated with the wings from L&T.

FOC fighters join the party

The team at LCA Tejas Division is excited as they have begun the preparations for producing the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) variants of Tejas. While the FOC announcement is expected next month, the division has already begun advanced stages of production of 10 sets of detail parts.

The assembly of two sets of air fame have already started for SP-21 and SP-22. The parts for SP-23 and SP-24 will be up by the first week of December.

The provisional DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for FOC fighters were released in October, 2017, and the amended one in August, 2018. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

“Structural assembly of major modules such as front fuselage, (FF), centre fuselage (CF) and rear fuselage (RF) of SP-21 onwards are already under progress, in the structural assembly hanger of LCA Tejas Division. Incidentally, the floor assembly of SP-21 FF Stage-1 has been provisionally cleared by qualifying authorities which is a significant milestone towards our FOC missions,” added the official.

HAL says that the first FOC fighter (SP-21) will fly out by October, 2019. It is hopeful of creating a new benchmark by delivering 16 aircraft during 2019-20 fiscal.

As reported by Onmanorama earlier, IAF and HAL seem to have ironed out their differences over Tejas trainers.

It is expected that the DAL or the build-standard of eight trainers in the FOC version will be now be ready by February, 2019, and the first plane will be likely available to IAF by September, 2021.

The 1,000-plus workforce of LCA Tejas Division probably is aware that the future of HAL is currently hinged on to their performances. A plane not wanted by many till recently has suddenly become the hope for a company, its user and the nation.

The upgraded versions of Tejas set to fly out in the future will be a testimony to the belief that making is better than buying.

HAL ramps up Tejas production | HAL | production | Tejas

Not bad. So HAL started production of FOC versions long ago.

 

[Sancho]

Just to be clear, HAL are the production partner, ADA is the entity overseeing FOC so I'd take ADA's word over HAL's on this subject.

Either way Dec 2018 or Jan/Feb/March/April 2019 makes very very little difference to any ongoing efforts on the production side.

HAL is referring to ADAs time lines and as former HAL Chief Raju stated in 2017, FOC promise by ADA was mid 2018, or at least Dec.
Now HAL and IAF seem to plan with 2019, while the ADA still tries to achieve it this year.
But you are right, with 1 year delay and constant promises of ADA, a few more months or even a year, won't change anything.

 

[Sancho]

One more delay & they'd be the laughing stock of the entire world.

They already are, livefist had an interview series this year with foreign defence journalists and none of them takes ADA or the future AMCA plans as serious and largely because of the disaster ADA created with the LCA programme.

 

[_Anonymous_]

They already are, livefist had an interview series this year with foreign defence journalists and none of them takes ADA or the future AMCA plans as serious and largely because of the disaster ADA created with the LCA programme.

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later. What about the Mk2 & the AMCA? If the ADA in it's present form is going to be the lead R&D team, then IAF & by extension India might as well kiss it's ar ses goodbye. That's the bottom line. What're the solutions? Re integrate ADA with HAL under its supervision for Mk2, AURA, AMCA, etc.

Let me throw the floor open.

@randomradio ; @Milspec ; @Ashwin ; @R!cK ; @vstol Jockey ; @Hellfire @Aashish ; and everyone else who'd like to contribute.

 

[Sancho]

As it stands Parrikar's move to greenlight the MK.1A was a masterstroke, it will allow HAL to ramp up and stabilise production ahead of the fighter the IAF really wants (MK.2) but whilst inducted still a pretty potent fighter with plenty of toys- the AESA radar particuarly is a real plus. It will bring AESA to the IAF's low-end fighter 4-5 years earlier than was planned and will also incentivise the development of UTTAM. Without the Mk.1A I'm not sure what would've happened in between the end of the 40 MK.1 production and commencment of MK.2's, maybe 40 more?

You are pretending as if this was a planned switch, while in reality it is only a stop gap solution, for another failure of ADA!

The plan was to have MK2 with AESA and new engine, in the time we now have to compromise with MK1A. So IAF is not improving according to plans, but once again has to take shortfalls in capability and make the best out of it.
Also if IOC and FOC would had been available as initially planned, the pulse doppler radar would be replaced with AESA now too, just as Jaguar IM replaces EL2032 with EL2052. So the modernisation time line didn't changed, we just lost a decade of operational service for that level of technology, which requires modernisation to LCA now.

 

[Sancho]

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later.

FOC is the key and even more important than MK1A, because FOC finally gives it multi role capabilities and makes it useful in basic A2A roles.
MK1A is important mainly to keep the production going and IAF deserves credit to keep their commitment although being disappointed all the time.
The good thing for the LCA programme, is that the government neither wants to spend much on defence, nor is currently able to do it, with the economy far away from double digit promises. We already see FGFA being cancelled and the fighters, it initially was planned to replace, being replaced now by LCA MK2. Not because it suddenly gets far more capable, or to be stealthy, but because it's so far the only fighter in production by that time (if ADA keeps MK2 development promises).
So while LCAs future for 12 squads seems to be secure, IAFs capability gets trashed by far. Instead of advanced MMRCA and FGFAs, they have to take what is available to defend the country.

 

[randomradio]

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later. What about the Mk2 & the AMCA? If the ADA in it's present form is going to be the lead R&D team, then IAF & by extension India might as well kiss it's ar ses goodbye. That's the bottom line. What're the solutions? Re integrate ADA with HAL under its supervision for Mk2, AURA, AMCA, etc.

Let me throw the floor open.

@randomradio ; @Milspec ; @Ashwin ; @R!cK ; @vstol Jockey ; @Hellfire @Aashish ; and everyone else who'd like to contribute.

I see a good future for ADA as long as the engine problem is solved. And that's already headed in the right direction.

There's the Mk1, which is a failure from the IAF's PoV, but a success from ADA's PoV. Mk1 has given ADA the foundation needed to scale up.

Mk1A is the HAL's solution to fix the Mk1's problems and ensure the IAF gets a relative success out of the Mk1 program.

Mk2 will be the crowing glory of the LCA program. It will give ADA equivalency with the Europeans in the fighter segment of the aerospace industry.

IUSAV (AURA) was designed by the ADA, but it's largely an ADE program. It will be riding on the coattails of the Rustom program, which has been delivering good results recently.

Basically, the entire LCA program and IUSAV will be handled by ADA-HAL and ADE-HAL combo resply anyway. HAL no longer has the expertise to work on more modern aircraft now, only ADA does. HAL can improve stuff from the production side, but they won't be messing around with the basic design.

As for AMCA, there's no guarantee HAL will be selected as the lead integrator. Let's see what happens here.

 

[R!cK]

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later. What about the Mk2 & the AMCA? If the ADA in it's present form is going to be the lead R&D team, then IAF & by extension India might as well kiss it's ar ses goodbye. That's the bottom line. What're the solutions? Re integrate ADA with HAL under its supervision for Mk2, AURA, AMCA, etc.

Let me throw the floor open.

@randomradio ; @Milspec ; @Ashwin ; @R!cK ; @vstol Jockey ; @Hellfire @Aashish ; and everyone else who'd like to contribute.

Honestly I'd like Tejas program to be detached from ADA and be assigned to HAL for further versions starting from MK2. But this should happen after the HAL Management is transferred to IAF or be run by ex Air Force personnel in key roles. It is about time we realise that a key aerospace organisation like HAL should be run by people with some user experience and not be a vacation spot for IAS officers with no aviation background. There is a reason why most premier Shipyards in the country are run by ex-Navy officers, even the private yards. On the other hand, we have OFBs and HAL run differently, with not so surprising results. HAL and IAF needs to have more ownership of these projects for them to be successful, MK2 is a good trial run before AMCA or this will be another expensive mistake to make.

NAL is worse, but there was an interest in previous governments to prop up multiple organisations to work on similar projects with no synergy just to keep their favoured civil service officers on key positions. These actions were taken without considering our lack of experienced people in the domain or with out providing necessary resources. Criminal wastage of public funds with no results to justify.

Good Day!

 

[Milspec]

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later. What about the Mk2 & the AMCA? If the ADA in it's present form is going to be the lead R&D team, then IAF & by extension India might as well kiss it's ar ses goodbye. That's the bottom line. What're the solutions? Re integrate ADA with HAL under its supervision for Mk2, AURA, AMCA, etc.

Let me throw the floor open.

@randomradio ; @Milspec ; @Ashwin ; @R!cK ; @vstol Jockey ; @Hellfire @Aashish ; and everyone else who'd like to contribute.

Structural changes, ADA was modeled to be a irkut/Knaapo to a Sukhoi/Mikoyan. Development agency complementing a production agency. Given that we really are not vodka chugging professionals who work from dusk to dawn and bred to measure collective success, comrades model does not work in India. We aspire to be an entity like Raytheon or General dynamics and not Mikoyan or Sukhoi OKB. Thus this model does not work for us, but now I suspect it is to late to get AMCA out of ADA tentacles.

Optimistically: Let ADA lead AMCA, and hold them accountable to meet deadlines. What I mean by holding ADA accountable, is if there is any creep in milestone delivery, fire the leadership. I know it sounds petty but it works wonders in my experience. Everyone falls in in line when they see the top honchos being shown the door.

We often talk about creating competition, I don't see any harm in letting HAL ARDC being developed as a competing agency for development projects against ADA/DRDO. HAL has far superior outreach to international and domestic private players and is a better partner for collaboration compared to ADA/DRDO in general. Ideally I would love to have ARDC take a dig at the AMCA platform and see if something can come off of it. But there are also other strategic projects, MRTA being a major platform which for some reason went on the back burner. A medium lifter, a heavy lift rotary platform, HTT 40, and LIFT platform, all are very important for Indian forces, and there is enough room for ARDC to grow if allowed to.

 

[Milspec]

HAL no longer has the expertise to work on more modern aircraft now, only ADA does. HAL can improve stuff from the production side, but they won't be messing around with the basic design.

That is interesting, What makes you say that?

 

[randomradio]

That is interesting, What makes you say that?

All the infrastructure necessary to build next gen aircraft is under DRDO. Anechoic chambers, near field and far field ranges, wind tunnels, engine test facilities etc.
Orange to add teeth to India’s gen-next weapon systems

So you want to do anything big in aerospace in India, you now have to go through DRDO. Even the IUSAV was designed by ADA, even though it's an ADE program.

Plus the idea is to remove production agencies from being involved in the R&D for critical technologies. HAL's ARDC can still work on other non-critical projects like other classes of fixed wing aircraft and rotary wing aircraft largely using their own funds or in collaboration with DRDO.

The idea is to give MoD full control over critical projects, which cannot be accomplished under HAL or other private players. Plus R&D will not be profit-oriented like it is now under HAL.

 

[Milspec]

All the infrastructure necessary to build next gen aircraft is under DRDO. Anechoic chambers, near field and far field ranges, wind tunnels, engine test facilities etc.
Orange to add teeth to India’s gen-next weapon systems

So you want to do anything big in aerospace in India, you now have to go through DRDO. Even the IUSAV was designed by ADA, even though it's an ADE program.

Plus the idea is to remove production agencies from being involved in the R&D for critical technologies. HAL's ARDC can still work on other non-critical projects like other classes of fixed wing aircraft and rotary wing aircraft largely using their own funds or in collaboration with DRDO.

The idea is to give MoD full control over critical projects, which cannot be accomplished under HAL or other private players. Plus R&D will not be profit-oriented like it is now under HAL.

Really,
Hemi Anechoic chamber is your bench mark, HAL has two of them a new one that was done couple of years ago in banglore and one in koraput. Wind tunnels that you are talking about, guess who built them for ADA? Just wondering do you now how far field testing is conducted and where it is conducted, both of the diffraction rigs sit in a HAL hangar.

It would be disastrous to continue all critical research managed exclusively by nincompoops of MoD headed by a freaking Television Spokesperson, who wouldn't know the difference between AAM and a mango. And same goes for all of the under-secretaries of MoD who are renowned for art of not doing any thing. Given ADA's horrible track record, if what you say is true, LCA MK2 and AMCA both will have substantial delays.

 

[Bharath]

Where do we go from here? I mean the FOC is bound to come, if not by December then a few months later. What about the Mk2 & the AMCA? If the ADA in it's present form is going to be the lead R&D team, then IAF & by extension India might as well kiss it's ar ses goodbye. That's the bottom line. What're the solutions? Re integrate ADA with HAL under its supervision for Mk2, AURA, AMCA, etc.

Let me throw the floor open.

@randomradio ; @Milspec ; @Ashwin ; @R!cK ; @vstol Jockey ; @Hellfire @Aashish ; and everyone else who'd like to contribute.

the answer is to bring in private players who would have to show the numbers and the performance for their shareholders. but the moment you get private players you have your politicians (those who did not get their cut now) to scream "corruption".

I ll tell you what is corruption:
the inability of brining PSUs to perform meaningful work
the filling up of PSU lower staff with people who have connections rather than merit
allowing reservations to beat merit even in most cutting edge research.

the above are absent in private firms - hence you get the results as below:

Larsen & Toubro : L&T Consistently Delivers Defence Ships Ahead Of Schedule; Launches Third Offshore Patrol Vessel | MarketScreener


India will become major exporter of defence products: Baba Kalyani

He also gave an example of the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun (ATAG) developed by Bharat Forge, even before the requirement came. "We knew Army will require it and hence invested in the ATAG system. And after getting a request from the Army, we delivered it within two and half years," he added.

 

[randomradio]

Really,
Hemi Anechoic chamber is your bench mark, HAL has two of them a new one that was done couple of years ago in banglore and one in koraput. Wind tunnels that you are talking about, guess who built them for ADA? Just wondering do you now how far field testing is conducted and where it is conducted, both of the diffraction rigs sit in a HAL hangar.

It would be disastrous to continue all critical research managed exclusively by nincompoops of MoD headed by a freaking Television Spokesperson, who wouldn't know the difference between AAM and a mango. And same goes for all of the under-secretaries of MoD who are renowned for art of not doing any thing. Given ADA's horrible track record, if what you say is true, LCA MK2 and AMCA both will have substantial delays.

All national projects will be headed by DRDO. If HAL wishes to bring something in, they will have to do it on their own, kinda like what vstol is trying to do, or what HAL did with the HTT-40, and hope the forces pick it up and fund it.

 

[TARGET]

Are we expecting high altitude winter trial of Kaveri ? ...or all done

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

@random radio @Milspec

Recently. There was a news about Tejas
Auto Low Speed Recovery Trial to happen soon

I wanted to know

What is the Ideal speed for Dog Fighting
In which a Fighter pilot can get in the Best position to fire his AAM

Secondly is it Better for A pilot to fire his
Air to Air Missile on the enemy fighter
from a A position of Higher altitude Or
A lower Altitude , that is Relative to the Enemy's s location

 

[randomradio]

@random radio @Milspec

Recently. There was a news about Tejas
Auto Low Speed Recovery Trial to happen soon

I wanted to know

What is the Ideal speed for Dog Fighting
In which a Fighter pilot can get in the Best position to fire his AAM

Secondly is it Better for A pilot to fire his
Air to Air Missile on the enemy fighter
from a A position of Higher altitude Or
A lower Altitude , that is Relative to the Enemy's s location

The best person to answer this is @vstol Jockey.

There is no such thing as an ideal speed, all aircraft have their own speeds at which they perform best, which is generally about 300 knots. But as the fight continues, the speed keeps dropping until one pilot gets an advantage over the other, or they simply break up and either try again or run away.

Higher altitude to lower altitude is the best. But if the distance is too close, it may not matter much since the missile will finish the job while it's boosting and is at its highest energy state.