He can wear a "Hellfire" T-shirt, and you can wear a creepy "guynextdoor" T.
LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
He can wear a "Hellfire" T-shirt, and you can wear a creepy "guynextdoor" T.
Go holding a placard with Hellfire written on it.
But take care it could be mistaken for an advertisement for the missile, which is also not unlikely to be displayed or mentioned in some capacity during the event.
You can't expect a rational argument from Ajay Shukla nowadays. Whatever he wright has an ulterior motive behind it.
for ex. (sorry for being offtopic )
@Hellfire @vstol Jockey sir
Lekin kaise holler doon? Inorbit has 1000s of people. They do't let people with hellfire missiles inside.
Aero India 2019 - Bengaluru
Gentle men use this thread for aero India related news / plans
Will be easier to search / follow up later on.
Gentle men use this thread for aero India related news / plans
Will be easier to search / follow up later on.
MICA NG IR will be primary close combat missile for both, with BVR capability as a secondary benefit. But Meteor will be Rafales primary EM BVR missile. And since it doesn't fit on Mirage 2000 fuselage stations, the MICA NG EM is needed.
Meteor is a very good missile to take down AWACS and Tankers but unfit to shoot down fighters which are far more agile and can counter the missile kinematics with their own. Please remember, fore warned is fore armed. Meteor will be detected from a very large distance and its NEZ will not be as big as claimed while dealing with a fighter aircraft. Infact it will be completely useless against a highly agile fighter. I had shared the equations for interception for a missile at various levels on another forum and can share here again. Meteor does not have the kinematics to engage targets above 35k feet pulling 4G.
Interesting change in the argument, even though still wrong on the content.
First you claimed that the heat signature is the problem, now you switched to kinematics as an argument, which is not important for BVR missiles. The only reason why MICA has TVC, is that it combines close combat and BVR capabilities, while neither US, Russian or Israeli BVR missiles focus on similar capabilities.
But at the end of the day, the key capability is the high and sustained speed advantage Meteor offers and that's what makes it more capable to all current gen BVR missiles.
Heat signature is about detection and kinematics is about interception of an agile target. How have I misrepresented?
Meteor has throttleable ramjet propulsion. Do you know what it means?
So as expected, just a switch in argument, to not admit that your earlier claims were completely false.
I think, what he means is,
1. The Meteor launch is detected, because of the heat signature.
2a. Fighter target detects launch and is able to maneouver away. And the Meteor does not have the final stage kinematics against it.
2b. AWACS/Tanker aircraft, detect launch but cannot maneouver in the short time required. But they can try to extend the range. But with the higher speed and range of the Meteor it is shot down.
This makes it great in taking down keyvalue/game changing targets, but not normal air targets.
Of course, this is my layman's understanding.
I know what he means, but that doesn't make his claim that Meteor is a bad BVR missile (now changed to good against AWACS or tankers) true.
Even if it would be detected earlier (let's ignore that most fighters today still don't have MAWS) than Derby for example, it reaches it's target faster too. And as explained, no BVR missile is designed with close combat manuverability in mind, be it Derby, Aim 120, R77, Astra, so how is that as an issue for Meteor?
The common misconception about Meteor or BVR combat in general is, that these missiles are used at maximum possible range, which is not the case at all. Once because proper identification of the target is often required as part of the air combat doctrine, to avoid friendly fire or non combat aircrafts. But more importantly, to give the target less time use countermeasures, evade or outrun the missiles. That is exactly where Meteors speed advantage is aimed on, because it increases the no escape zone compared to current gen BVR missiles.
A Rafale with MICA EM, would have to fly closer to the target, to launch the missile within the no escape zone and have a high kill probability, while the high speed of Meteor, allows it to attack the target from longer distances, with the same kill probability.
Last edited:
without taking away anything from the discussion between you and vstol (has made an interesting read so far), vstol did mention in his post (which started this debate) that Metero was good against HVTs but not against faster (fighter) aircraft)
so he dint "change his claim" to "good against AWACS and tankers". his point has been same throughout.
I am not taking any sides here - I am only interested in learning both through this discussion.
Please continue your discussion - it is these kinds of posts that make any defense forum worth the time.