LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

[vstol Jockey]

Sir what is CImax
And How is the Mirage 2000 so successful

LCA was inspired by Mirage 2000

Clmax is called the maximum lift coefficient of a wing. For two wings with similar wing area and airfoil thickness, the wing with higher coefficient of lift will have higher lift for any given angle of attack. The comparision is drawn using a straight wing with same parameters with a swept wing. As the sweep back angle of wing rises the coefficient of lift varies by cosine of the sweep angle. At zero sweep, it is one and at 90* it is zero.

 

[randomradio]

LCA MK2 will be a bigger dud than MK1A. What we need is better engine for Mk1A with higher dry thrust.

It depends on how much weight has been reduced on the Mk1A.

The current engine delivers 52/90KN. If they manage to reduce weight by even 600Kg, then the aircraft will have a TWR of 0.62/1.1 with full fuel. If they achieve the full design goal of 1000Kg reduction, then we will get 0.66/1.2.

On Mk1, it is 0.6/1 as of now.

I hope the air show will give us more information.

 

[randomradio]

According to PKS , and I quote

"Those same Imbeciles who designed MK1
Are in charge of MK 1A and MK2 "

That is why both are doomed

PKS is an idiot. Please stop reading him.

 

[randomradio]

M2k was an evolution of M3. They realised that positive stability was imposing lot of restrictions so they went in for RSS and added FBW system. This allowed the aircraft to go with larger loads and improve the handling during combat as the flaps were needed thruout the flight to keep the CG within limits. M2K was successful against F-16 only in ITR and not in STR. It could not match up even to early gen MIG-29s in combat. It bleeds energy in combat rapidly. It was a good bomb truck for reasons I explained above. It could cruise very efficiently with higher loads.
The design for LCA was decided by IAF in 1984 over lots of chai, samosa and sutta. The team formed by IAF to decide the configuration had no clue of what they were asked to do. They were highly impressed with M2K and so asked for a similar design. Rest is history.

Our plan is to make an M-2000 with F-16 level TWR. I hope that works out.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

PKS is an idiot. Please stop reading him.

I will , the Day MK 1 A becomes a Successful reality

Or else why would the ADA -HAL combine
Maintain such complete silence even 3 years after they started work on MK 1A with such
Fanfare

And why is HAL making a desperate bid for
Rafale . So that they remain relevant

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

It depends on how much weight has been reduced on the Mk1A.

The current engine delivers 52/90KN. If they manage to reduce weight by even 600Kg, then the aircraft will have a TWR of 0.62/1.1 with full fuel. If they achieve the full design goal of 1000Kg reduction, then we will get 0.66/1.2.

On Mk1, it is 0.6/1 as of now.

I hope the air show will give us more information.

ADA somehow mesmerized Parrikar
For sanctioning MK 1A

And IAF played along knowing well that
They would screw it up again

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

The initial plan was to operate 14 Squadrons.

12 SQ with 19 aircraft each
2 SQ with 20 aircraft each (Brahmos equipped)

12x19 + 2x20 + 4 attrition replacement(at time of contract) = 272

The same was confirmed by Ex ACM Arup Raha. The IAF currently operates 12 SQ of Sukhois. We however lost 4 additional aircraft after that including the unit lost by HAL which will be reimbursed but not built without a fresh contract.

A new contract will thus cater for 4+ attrition replacement and additional units for new SQ formation. Personally I'd expect an order for 44+ units, so that Brahmos modification is performed on new build aircraft rather than in-service aircraft. These might not be Super standard but contain incremental hardware upgrades compared to current ordered batch of Sukhois.

Good Day!

Simply Put It is only the Sukhois that are Stopping the Barbarians at Our Gates

For this act alone , Narasimha Rao deserves
A Bharat Ratna

How Vajpayee worked with leaders from rival parties to save the Sukhoi-30 deal in '96

 

[Hellfire]

I think we'd get the full complement of the Mk1a. I'm not sure of the Mk2 / MCA mainly on a/c of the timelines. We may terminate the program with a TD + prototype.

Expect mk1 to fail and if the present dispensation is voted back in, expect mk1a and mk 2 to be in partnership with a foreign OEM. I suspect we may see the Swedes in along with F-18s in Navy .. to 'secure' engines for mk1a and mk2 from US in some measure. Follow on of Rafales too will take place

So:

Rafale follow on
Gripen (possible)

F-18 for navy
LCA mk 1a and mk2 latter being a different aircraft altogether

 

[vstol Jockey]

ADA somehow mesmerized Parrikar
For sanctioning MK 1A

And IAF played along knowing well that
They would screw it up again

I had a big hand in that. I still insist that we do not need Mk2 and we need to beef up Mk1A with a better engine.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

I had a big hand in that. I still insist that we do not need Mk2 and we need to beef up Mk1A with a better engine.

A new engine means GE 414

Does nt That also mean Redesign the Airframe and more Internal fuel capacity

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Expect mk1 to fail and if the present dispensation is voted back in, expect mk1a and mk 2 to be in partnership with a foreign OEM. I suspect we may see the Swedes in along with F-18s in Navy .. to 'secure' engines for mk1a and mk2 from US in some measure. Follow on of Rafales too will take place

So:

Rafale follow on
Gripen (possible)

F-18 for navy
LCA mk 1a and mk2 latter being a different aircraft altogether

We need an Airforce Not a Zoo

 

[Hellfire]

FGFA will come into the picture instead.

Nyet, ni pravilna

 

[vstol Jockey]

A new engine means GE 414

Does nt That also mean Redesign the Airframe and more Internal fuel capacity

No, I had suggested EJ230 for LCA Mk1A. That would have increase the internal fuel capacioty to 2700 kgs and increased the length only by nine cms.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

No, I had suggested EJ230 for LCA Mk1A. That would have increase the internal fuel capacioty to 2700 kgs and increased the length only by nine cms.

Sir , Right now only HAL is agitating against
The Govt .

If ADA / DRDO also joins them then Modi Sarkar will be Chewed up by the Media

Because your proposal of EJ 200 is too Radical

We threw them out when we opted for 414

Re inviting them would set us back by
Many years

Let ADA throw up its hands in despair

Only then ,the Govt will decide the next step

 

[Hellfire]

We need an Airforce Not a Zoo

Not getting a zoo. You missed the bigger picture

1. Replacement of Mig-21 Bis 06 x Squadrons = 120 aircrafts approximately. That can be done by Gripen/LCA
2. Replacement of Mig-27 - Rafale
3. Replacement of a few Jaguars - Rafale
4. Increment in Squadrons (to reach aimed 42 Squadrons and beyond) - LCA mk1a and mk2s

Gripen comes in as emergency procurement. F-18s come in Navy as tradeoff to ensure Engine access
Su-30s get fixed at 14 Squadrons.

Because your proposal of EJ 200 is too Radical

not happening

 

[vstol Jockey]

Sir , Right now only HAL is agitating against
The Govt .

If ADA / DRDO also joins them then Modi Sarkar will be Chewed up by the Media

Because your proposal of EJ 200 is too Radical

We threw them out when we opted for 414

Re inviting them would set us back by
Many years

Let ADA throw up its hands in despair

Only then ,the Govt will decide the next step

We have a very stupid system of deciding weapons systems. This is called L1. How can you decide a system based on value of contract when what you need is the quality of the product and its acceptability for the system.

 

[halloweene]

ANALYSIS: Tejas Regaining Its Lustre | Indian Defence News

There will be trubles. Israeli are regularly involved in spying affairs, not sure the 6 countries will accept to give sensitive data for integration with Elta radar.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

We have a very stupid system of deciding weapons systems. This is called L1. How can you decide a system based on value of contract when what you need is the quality of the product and its acceptability for the system.

Well we cannot ask the Services to select the Most Expensive Equipment

That is why L1 is needed

Quality has to be slightly better than Chinese systems

Not getting a zoo. You missed the bigger picture

1. Replacement of Mig-21 Bis 06 x Squadrons = 120 aircrafts approximately. That can be done by Gripen/LCA
2. Replacement of Mig-27 - Rafale
3. Replacement of a few Jaguars - Rafale
4. Increment in Squadrons (to reach aimed 42 Squadrons and beyond) - LCA mk1a and mk2s

Gripen comes in as emergency procurement. F-18s come in Navy as tradeoff to ensure Engine access
Su-30s get fixed at 14 Squadrons.


not happening

We are getting more Rafales , that is sure

But there will be one more plane ,Not Two
Either Gripen E or F 16 or Fifth Gen

F 18 is not coming

 

[vstol Jockey]

Well we cannot ask the Services to select the Most Expensive Equipment

That is why L1 is needed

Quality has to be slightly better than Chinese systems

The requirement must be met first before we decide on L1. Can you fit old Viper engine in LCA just because it emerges L1? What kind of argument are you making?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Progress in Production of Tejas Aircraft

Two contracts were signed between Indian Air Force (IAF) and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., (HAL) for procurement of (i) 20 Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) standard aircraft (16 IOC fighters and 4 IOC trainers) on 31st March 2006 to be completed by December 2011 and (ii) 20 Final Operational Clearance (FOC) standard aircraft (16 FOC fighters and 4 FOC trainers) on 23rd December 2010 to be completed by December 2016.
At the time of placement of IOC order in 2006, it was expected that Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), who is the Programme Management Agency will obtain IOC in 2008 after which delivery was planned till December 2011. However, IOC has been achieved by ADA in December 2013 that too only for 16 fighter version IOC aircraft, after which only, HAL could take up production and first IOC fighter aircraft was delivered in 2016-17. Till date, out of total 16 IOC fighter aircraft, 12 fighters have been delivered to IAF. HAL plans to deliver the balance 4 IOC fighter aircrafts by March, 2019. ADA has handed over Drawing Applicability List (DAL) and Equipment Standard of Preparation (SOP) documents, for FOC configuration to HAL on 31st December, 2018 duly cleared by centre of Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) to go ahead with the production of FOC fighter aircraft. Accordingly HAL has taken up the production of LCA, FOC fighter aircraft.
The production of 8 trainer aircraft (4 each in IOC &FOC contracts) would be taken up only after design clearance from ADA.In order to fast track the delivery of LCATejas, the following steps have been taken:-
•

For ramping up production capacity from existing 8 aircraft to 16 aircraft per annum, Government of India (GoI) has sanctioned Rs.1381.04 Crore in March, 2017.
•

Establishment of second line for structural and equipping activities at Aircraft Division, HAL.
•

Increased the number of jigs for Front Fuselage, Centre Fuselage, Rear Fuselage, Wings & various sub-assemblies and established contracts for outsourcing to private partners.
•
Reduction in manufacturing cycle time through improved supply chain management, learning and augmentation of manpower.

This information was given by Raksha Rajya Mantri Dr. Subhash Bhamre in a written reply to Dr. R. Lakshmanan in Rajya Sabha today.
Nampi/DK/Rajib/HS
/RAJYA SABHA/

(Release ID :188367)