LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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I would like to learn what IAF has made payments for, please post a reference.
There's nothing much to it. Everything that HAL's built for LCA, has pretty much all been paid for or will be paid for by the MoD, with the exception of the production line, which is shared.
You should be the one providing the reference, 'cause you are making the claim.
Logic states MoD pays for everything, not HAL. Or are you saying Reliance is paying for the Rafale deal also?
All you claimed is HAL is apparently paying for everything now. That's a very weird claim to make.
Comprehension Fail as always.
For any infrastructure to be built such as Production line, allocations are made from the Capex of the said company. Over the order size the same cost is capitalized, in some instances the cost is capitalized across the product line in other cases specific to the product or service.
For example if backup generators are installed with Capex, it would be capitalized as a fixed overhead for the period of until the cost is recovered across all the products, if a CAPEX is utilized to insource a process for SU30MKI, and certain amount is added, it would go into an overhead for the cost to build for that specific product. That is how Cost works.
Now charging the customer, i.e MoD, in lieu of IAF/IA/IN/ISRO constitutes as a Sale price, which could be in some cases Cost + proft, Cost+fixed margin, just At Cost, or in some cases Cost-Concessions (in case of ISRO).
Hope that clarifies.
Yep. And all that is covered within the contract as far as HAL is concerned. So, in the end, HAL actually pays nothing, and still comes back with a profit. Somehow that is 15000Cr extra for 83 jets.
That's how all businesses work. MoD pays for the product on receipt (In case of this MoD , it might pay on reciept) it doesn't pay for Capex, that is allocated from it's own Cash reserves in case if it has one, if not like in case of Ircon and now even HAL, it has to raise debt against the Book Order.
So what you are referring to as Capex being paid for by MoD upfront is as always your own figment of imagination.
Now you brought the term 'upfront' here, I didn't. Almost nothing ever happens upfront, unless you are paying for something from a retail outlet.
Everything that HAL spends now, MoD pays for it, whether it's upfront or at a later date.
As I pointed out, the HAL production line was paid for by both HAL and MoD. And the current line for 16-19 per year has already been paid for through the 40 aircraft deal for IOC and FOC aircraft. So the Mk1A is entering the production process with all necessary production facilities already paid for, or else it wouldn't exist.
As for development, there is a reason why IAF says there is no need for IOC and FOC for the Mk1A.
There is literally nothing HAL has done that requires jacking up prices by 15000 Cr. That's why that ridiculous price increase has been eliminated through a new round of negotiations. And even after that, after including all of HAL's capex and overheads on the program, the new price is also inflated.
Old price
IOC = 162Cr
FOC = 220Cr... already inflated. Done by HAL on their own even though most of the hardware is the same.
Mk1A = 450Cr... Absolutely ridiculous.
New price
IOC = 162Cr
FOC = 220Cr
Mk1A = 250-275Cr... Makes sense even though it's still inflated.
HAL has literally tried to cheat the MoD. The very fact that they jacked up labour manhours by 30% proves it. I don't get why you're trying to defend the indefensible.
MoD should bring price controls on the profit margin like what DGA has done in France. Dassault only make a profit of 6.93% on the Rafale meant for the French. HAL can charge whatever they want elsewhere, but not in India.
No wonder ADA wants to choose the AMCA's production partner through a competitive tender. Even SOEs that are supposed to be working for the country's benefit are trying to cheat it.
You are confusing HAL with MoD, this cheating business is relegated to south block and RM's office, given there are actual audits in the company, While MoD's track record, less said is better.
Now coming to the cost, Old costs had it's breakups, new costs have it's breakups that is what the negotiations were for. I just pointed out the nonsense you continually post about Customer paying for AOP Capital projects.
French government doesn't own Dassault. There lies the key difference.
This I absolutely agree, ADA should start with moving out of the HAL complex, and vacate it's staff from HAL township for start,
The breakups are the same.
Biggest reason why DPSUs should go. It's time
So you mean to say HAL shouldn't be given the contract to build LCAs anymore? I agree, but unfortunately HAL has captured that market.
It's too late for that though. Not to mention, as far as HAL is concerned, the Mk1A is a critical project for them since MKI production is coming to an end.
The Hindu (@the_hindu) Tweeted:
Procurement of additional Akash surface-to-air missiles for the #IndianAirForce has also been cleared.
LCA pricing issue sorted out: Defence Ministry ( )
Procurement of additional Akash surface-to-air missiles for the #IndianAirForce has also been cleared.
LCA pricing issue sorted out: Defence Ministry ( )
So we are going to make 20 FOC + 8 trainers until then.. 7-8 / per year?
@16 / year for Mk1A production will be for 5 years min.
That means MWF production will be after 2028..
ADA is developing MWF so who will be responsible for production will be decided in future.So we are going to make 20 FOC + 8 trainers until then.. 7-8 / per year?
@16 / year for Mk1A production will be for 5 years min.
That means MWF production will be after 2028..