Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Our entire ADS will be integrated, including both Sowrdfish and S-400.

It's ok but will S400 missile batteries be integrated with swordfish? Or you want to say that all missiles and all radars will work as a single unit where the input from every radar shall be used to guide any missiles against target.
 
Whole Aksai Hind( thanks to @vstol Jockey for the name) is disputed. Galwan, or No Galwan. It's only a small area in disputed Aksai Hind. There is NO buffer, I repeat there is NO buffer.
I did not name it Aksai Hind. This name was first used by our young MP from Ladakh. Aksai means desert of ice/snow or white desert. I liked the term and used it.
@vstol Jockey sir,

Kindly enhance our knowledge about Indian navy's role in a possible conflict between India and China.
OK. will do it.
 
why did 1967 Nathula or kargil happened when there is a leadership which fear losing the war way more than war itself ??
Good point! Rather a great point! You need to know few more details on 1967.


To help Pakistan in the 1965 war, the Chinese gave an ultimatum to India and asked to vacate Jelep La and Nathu La in Sikkim area. Both Jelep La and Nathu La were Border Out Posts with their main defences in the rear. 17 Mountain Division (commanded by Maj Gen Sagat Singh) was responsible for the defence of Nathu La and 27 Mountain Division was taking care of Jelep La. Higher command issued orders to vacate the BOPs. 27 MtnDiv vacated the BOP and the Chinese occupied it instantly (it is under Chinese control till date). However Sagat refused to vacate Nathu La. He saw the tactical advantage of having control over Nathu La as an Artillery observer sitting on high features in Nathu La could observe Yatung Valley for miles and bring down accurate artillery fire. Sagat’s tactical brilliance paid off 2 years later.

You wanted to know 1967 Nathu La is our victory and not defeat? Thank Maj Gen Sagat Singh and his 17th Mtn Division. Had it been the good dabbas in south block, we would have surrendered Nathu La pass to China in 1965 itself.
 
Both sides are going into discussions knowing there is slim chance of a breakthrough. Why? Are they buying time to build up forces further?
Are these a sham and covert talks are happening elsewhere?
Time is one thing, another thing is appearance of peaceful measures. If negotiation talks won't happen you will see more nations and organizations offering their "good offices" to India and China. Both India and China are adamant that this issue if bilateral and should be resolved so without any third party mediating. Both have different reasons.
China obviously does not trust any external force and want to establish herself as a "Global leader".
India because internationalizing this will weaken its own stance with respect to Pakistan in Kashmir. If India China issue can be discussed and resolved in international forums and by mediation of foreign powers, why not Kashmir and India-Pakistan?

So both want the issue to remain bilateral for different reasons.

Trouble with India is that it is pussyfooting regarding her own territory. All the peace overtures and de-escalation talks are coming from India only.
 
Time is one thing, another thing is appearance of peaceful measures. If negotiation talks won't happen you will see more nations and organizations offering their "good offices" to India and China. Both India and China are adamant that this issue if bilateral and should be resolved so without any third party mediating. Both have different reasons
China obviously does not trust any external force and want to establish herself as a "Global leader".
India because internationalizing this will weaken its own stance with respect to Pakistan in Kashmir. If India China issue can be discussed and resolved in international forums and by mediation of foreign powers, why not Kashmir and India-Pakistan?

So both want the issue to remain bilateral for different reasons.

Trouble with India is that it is pussyfooting regarding her own territory. All the peace overtures and de-escalation talks are coming from India only.

I had overlooked that angle. Thanks
 
Well, All Chinese in the humanities departments of western universities always protect Chinese government's point of view. Our folks in humanities departments of western university try their best to undermine India. Ashok Swine, anyone?

We need to dismantle this JNU bullshit as soon as possible.
 
Also, I feel India is trying to hold them in until it starts to snow. They have to leave then. Question is, if IA will do a similar op on them when the snow starts to melt.
Thats the idea, but I doubt they will leave this time. They might put permanent structures.
 
Simply because there is no reason for them to overwhelm us while there objective can be met without firing a bullet. They are ensuring that our political class have the room to maneuver and is not forced by masses to get into armed conflict.

They are operating below a threshold, which is sane when you deal with 1.3 billion strong nation with nukes.
yeah, how we negotiate with no regard wrt to future.

customer: how much is this item
shopkeeper: 300 Rs
customer: no its expensive
shopkeeper: ok, how abt 30 Rs per month for a year.
customer: that looks affordable.
 
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They aren't de-inducting. If GoI thinks that, I'm sort of tempted to see where did these dinosaur brained, mahatma ki doodh peeta his decision makers come from? It's like the classic definition of stupidity. They keep expecting different results from same actions.

I'm worried before winter, they'll take advantage of hampered supply lines due to monsoon in India and attack us.
Bureaucracy thinks indecision will lead to problem automatically getting solved or vanish away in due course of time, indecision must rank as one of the most valuable assets of a bureaucrat.
 
I have billion gripes with Indian Deep-state and civilian leadership but this is one thing we do right. We do not hide the deaths. That would be the biggest insult. We need to fix our systems to ensure right help is delivered to the families of these soldiers who died, timely though.
 
I have billion gripes with Indian Deep-state and civilian leadership but this is one thing we do right. We do not hide the deaths. That would be the biggest insult. We need to fix our systems to ensure right help is delivered to the families of these soldiers who died, timely though.

Read about Adarsh and Coffin scam :) that's the reality.
 
Ummm... its not just that. Its more like Indian deep-state and political leadership is EXTREMELY reluctant to enter into any conflict. We prefer to operate via diplomacy, negotiation and to a lesser extent via infiltrating in political systems. Like what we are doing in Nepal, what we did in Maldives and perhaps what we did in Sri Lanka.

My suspicion is that for whatever reason, either deep-state in south block does not trust its forces AND/OR it is very very much influenced by business houses. US deep-state, for example, is influenced by its MIC a lot. India does not exactly have a MIC. India has a lots of resellers masquerading as industry. They don't want a war which disrupts their supply chain and business. Remember, our esteemed PM has not exactly called for boycotting enemy goods?
From what I have read and understood about Indian defence and from interviews of retd Gens in the last 1 decade. These are my conclusions:
1. Indian deep state is almost exclusively IAS officers and a handful of IFS and IPS(max 7/8 in total).
2. Both the political class( primarily Congress) and bureaucrats fear a situation where the Armed forces gain more primacy and want to keep total control of strategic affairs in their hand.
3. Congress particularly believed it is politically more prudent to not take military risks.
Congress's fear of the military can be gauged from its belligerent opposition and panic to the post of CDS in Vajpayee times and the dismantling of the TSD of the Indian Army. It genuinely fears a coup and it actually had protocols put in place to prevent it. I mean what do you expect the army to do if it is powerful enough and you want to give away Siachen?
 
From what I have read and understood about Indian defence and from interviews of retd Gens in the last 1 decade. These are my conclusions:
1. Indian deep state is almost exclusively IAS officers and a handful of IFS and IPS(max 7/8 in total).
2. Both the political class( primarily Congress) and bureaucrats fear a situation where the Armed forces gain more primacy and want to keep total control of strategic affairs in their hand.
3. Congress particularly believed it is politically more prudent to not take military risks.
Congress's fear of the military can be gauged from its belligerent opposition and panic to the post of CDS in Vajpayee times and the dismantling of the TSD of the Indian Army. It genuinely fears a coup and it actually had protocols put in place to prevent it. I mean what do you expect the army to do if it is powerful enough and you want to give away Siachen?
Ironically IG before declaring emergency actually asked Gen Raina to launch a coup d'etat & seize power . That's what this family is made up of.
 
Ironically IG before declaring emergency actually asked Gen Raina to launch a coup d'etat & seize power . That's what this family is made up of.

She had asked his support in enforcing the emergency. Gen. Raina refused and said as per the constitution he would only take orders from an elected government. Nerves of steel