Sir,
If that happens, I will sponsor you a trip in an awesome place in an area full of natural beauty with mountains, jungle, rivers, wildlife sanctuary, world heritage site, shskti Peeth. Here precisely.
Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
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Sir,
If that happens, I will sponsor you a trip in an awesome place in an area full of natural beauty with mountains, jungle, rivers, wildlife sanctuary, world heritage site, shskti Peeth. Here precisely.
Nice attempt to cover your modesty with a fig leaf which doesn't conceal what you intend to & reveals way too much. We've already briefed the Quad which includes the US, Japan & Australia. This is a separate briefing.
No UK.
Look up 5 eyes. If either the US or Australia know, we know. As for briefing France and Germany, you may as well have briefed your backside, it's not like they have any weight in that region and Russia is a friend of China first and a friend of India second. Really the US, Japan and Australia are the only potentially useful people you have briefed.
But I'm glad if briefing us indirectly makes you feel sexually empowered, just try not to be too hard on the cattle tonight as a result, there's a good lad.
What you have taken out of the article is contrary to everything told by our military and even outside experts.
Modi would have been bluffing in Ladakh if all that was true.
What's the point of discussion when you've already decided we can't fight?
Since you've decided we can't fight China, then it's obvious we shouldn't fight, or else they will simply take more land, even the stuff we currently occupy. That's obvious.
Since that's the case, it's in China's favour if they attack anyway. It will simply be a repeat of 1962 and this time they will take more land.
If you apply logic and common sense, you will notice what you took from the article is the complete opposite of the ground situation. They would have taken South Doklam 3 years ago otherwise, when we were worse off than today.
You do not understand this subject. There's nothing the Chinese can add in the next 3 years that will give them any kind of overwhelming superiority compared to what we can do in the same time.
For example, we have just 3 ships with advanced AAW and 12 ships with obsolete AAW, whereas they have at least 50 with basic AAW and may get 10 more with the same basic AAW. But in 3 years, we will get 7-8 new ships with advanced AAW. You see how much of a difference that makes for us compared to them? An apt analogy here is it won't change the way Mukesh Ambani lives his life if he adds another $10B to his kitty in 3 years, but what will happen to the life of a salaried guy if he gets $1B in 3 years? With the help of advanced AAW defending our ships, we will have the numbers necessary to be able to take out all their 50-60 ships. That's the kind of difference technology brings to the table.
Similarly, Rafale gives capabilities that doesn't exist in our threat environment. It's like 2 salaried men living on monthly salaries, but 1 suddenly gets $1B in 3 years. By adding capability that doesn't exist, you are changing the equation. This is what we call an RMA (Revolution in Military Affairs). The MRSAM will create the same type of environment. All the radars can talk to each other and compensate for their blind spots, and the missile itself is unmatched. There is currently no equivalent anywhere. The same with the Apaches with their Longbow radars and Hellfire-Longbows, there's no equivalent anywhere else.
We only need minor changes to create a major difference on the field, it's because our modernisation had effectively come to a stop during the 10 years of UPA and was compensated only during Modi-1 and yet to culminate under Modi-2.
This has nothing to do with optimism. These are cold, hard facts. Your ignorance makes you believe what I'm talking about is mumbo jumbo, nothing else.
But I think you're right to buy Russian planes, if you have enough pilots. I've linked an article, but that's not why I agree with everything that's written in it.
As far as the supply of Rafale aircraft is concerned, a distinction can be made between the short term and the medium term. In the medium term, there will be an interruption in deliveries after the 36 you ordered. If we want this delivery to continue after the 36, we would have to negotiate a priority for you and raise the monthly rate to 3 to limit the inconvenience for the others.
In the short term, we can work in August to get 2 Rafale off the assembly line more quickly, then we can work at night to get 4 out per month.
But you have to ask for and accept a negotiation of the conditions under which we could do this.
I'm interpreting the General's version which you claim is similar to yours but which you've clearly not understood.
Where did I say we can't fight. Please quote a single sentence where I'm claimed what you've attributed to me.
I've been repeatedly saying we ought to be prepared for a prolonged battle of attrition with the Chinese.
That's your interpretation. You claim we should be waging a war in 2-3 years from now where you claim we'd be better prepared. I'm saying what if the Chinese force a war now upon us. If you point out that we will fight as we must since we don't have a choice in this regard, my contention would be let's treat it even otherwise as a choice we don't have & fight it out after we've reached a point of no return in our negotiations which as things stand today we already seem to have.
Well, at least we fought then as opposed to what we're doing now. Having said that, we still are on the LAC in full force & the issue is far from resolved.
Your interpretation again or rather your misinterpretation of what you presume are my thoughts & stand on the matter. In the event, as far as Doklam goes except for the area where we confronted them, they've regularized their presence & reinforced it throughout the plateau where before that particular show down their presence there was occasional. Is that your version of victory? You ought to read up on the term pyrrhic victory then.
Let's discuss your understanding of the subject. You're the one claiming parity of views with experts & professionals. Not me.
With views like the Chinese can add nothing in 3 years whereas we'd be building up our potential exponentially, I guess who'd be the laughing stock were these views carried to a public platform like twitter is a no brainer.
Technology apart , there's something called the will to fight & the stomach for it. Modi has shown half a will to fight not a combative aggressive persona that he made himself out to be. Having said that we don't need a hothead but with the Chinese precipitating what they have, our options are rapidly being foreclosed.
Those imaginary scenarios you're conjuring up in your head don't take into account changed realities. That of an economy in a damaged state pre Chinese epidemic & in a critical state now. Add a window of 2-3 years at the most to it & you'd see why even with the systems we're likely to induct within as small a window as that, which would surely enhance our position is also more likely to see the Chinese not wait it out till then to further their claims & bring forward the day of reckoning.
I guess we should be asking the Chinese to take that into account and come back in 2030 where we'd be in a much better position to deal with them.
My "ignorance " Versus your undying orgasmic optimism.
Yes. You need to join ORF or Stimpson Centre. They'd surely be looking forward to listening to your enlightened views.
The only way out is to make them pay. Unless we recapture our land back, they will keep doing it.
What is coming next sir? Limited conflict or war? Ex R&AW officer N K Sood in his video said that conflict will happen in August end or in September.
Russia mocks Britain, the little island
Russia mocked Britain today as “a small island no one listens to”, sparking a diplomatic spat with David Cameron.
www.telegraph.co.uk
Yes they have them in place but S-400 is a different ball game altogether. We can take care of HQ9s easily.
I had always maintained that the fresh order for Rafale will come once the first few of them arrive in India. I still maintain the same. I am sure that by the begining of next year we will see additional orders for Rafale.
No way.
They have put that time period considering the diplomatic options and the time taken to exhaust all options. But the way we are at present eyeball to eyeball, anything can happen anytime. Things are very bad.
IMO no party will start the conflict in the monsoon season. I agree with the volatility of situation though.
PM Modi has given the message to commanders in Ladakh that any aggression from Chinese side should be met accordingly.
PM Modi's Surprise Visit To Ladakh Amid India-China Conflict Was Coordinated By NSA Ajit Doval: Report
Prime Minister (PM) Narendra Modi's meticulously planned and surprise visit to Ladakh was coordinated by National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval along with Chief of Army Staff (CoAS) General MM Naravane and Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat, reports Hindustan Times
swarajyamag.com
I pointed this out many times. We have to fight when it's the last option, the same as what the good general says.
The use of force should be considered only after exhausting all possible non-kinetic options.
We are nowhere near having exhausted all options yet. Not even close.
This is the 21st century. Victory is defined through multiple domains, including economic and diplomatic arenas, not just on the ground. So I am claiming victory in the economic arena. On the ground, the situation is still tense, and in the diplomatic arena, we have the advantage because we find common ground with many countries.
When one starts from zero, the changes become more visible.
The Chinese started their zero from a lower base much early on. So did the Russians. Take SAMs for example, that's why most of their inventory is composed of PESA radars or entry level AESA radars and missiles without seekers. But when we begin, it's at a higher base with higher end technologies, like GaN AESA with GaN seekers. Naturally, it requires some time to absorb that tech, and we are on that threshold. So in 3 years we will have inducted and made operational all the more advanced stuff.
Similarly, we started earlier when it came to fighter jet modernisation, which is why we have PESA on our Flankers while they had nothing. But, since a few years ago, they got hundreds of jets with AESA and longer ranged missiles and gained the advantage, whereas we are in the process of inducting this new tech. So in 3 years, at best we will only add a few more old jets with old tech while in the same time they will add the more advanced AESA jets. So we need to find equalizers ASAP on this front, and in comes the Rafale. The Chinese lack such equalisers elsewhere.
This is how military modernisation has always worked. Pak Army attacked us in 1965 because they assumed they had such an advantage.
You and I differ in this perception of "rapidly". For you it's mere months, for me this can last years. As I pointed out earlier, one such event lasted 7 years.
We are not talking about a war in the next few months. We are in it for the long haul.
So it's obvious we need to fix our economy and go back in the black before playing with guns. The Chinese are in the same boat. Even they are facing the grimm prospects of negative GDP growth and even they are not looking at fighting anywhere. It's not "rapid".
Sarcasm aside, that would be a massive diplomatic victory for us. We will at that point in time even have the kind of money necessary to rebuild destroyed cities.
"Never reveal your cards, never get into brinkmanship, keep your channels open in every direction, bide your time, bargain well and know when to strike."
If we fight today, we can fight back and do quite a big of damage, enough to get them to back off for a while. Call it a bloody nose if you will. But they will still stay strong and be ready to continue the fight if necessary, perhaps even a year down the line. But if we fight in 2-3 years, they will back off and avoid fighting us for the next 10 years, until they themselves advance their weapons enough to either equalise or gain superiority over us. And during that time they will accord us the same level of respect they give to the US.
You haven't understood this point at all.
Considering I now share my opinion with the ex-COAS and an American DoD professor, yes, I'm pretty sure they will look forward to it. All your sarcasm aside, your opinions about dealing with this situation are simply due to your unrealistic assessment of the situation.
We can fight, but it will be pointless when you consider the big picture without finishing our modernisation first. We must fight if war is imposed on us, but the Chinese must also fear a significant loss of territory in any war with India and we are not there yet. You absolutely do not understand the importance of modernisation at all.