Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

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Look its not going to happen, we have asked US to completely stop backing pakistan but they have not agreed to it. They still want to have pakistan as counter weight to India. One reason they helped china was they never expected a challenge from them. They more or less thought they are japanese version 2. Thumb rule for americans is that every one is a threat to their interests. After the chinese challenge they wont provide much technology or support to India. They have history of converting non white allies to enemies like Iran, pakistan..etc. Being a non-white country we should be the last to expect any largesse.

We should let US-China slug it out only then might get some concessions, for example take a look at UNSC. US still does not want to back India for UNSC even as nominal gesture. Second thing if chinese get dumbed down then their next focus will obviously be India. Why do we want to unnecessarily invite attention ?
Stupid argument. We are at the brink of China-India war here. We need allies to take on superior enemy and its proxies(more than one at our border)
Its more of our own necessity that US.
Chinese are not going to war with US any time soon. They will finish of inferior neighbours like India, Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan first before taking on a superior US.
US no doubt is interested but keep in mind that they have other options too. But we have none. We need someone who can scare the shit out of Chinese .
Just see the Chinese reaction on SoKo THAAD deployment and see what I’m talking about
 
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“Indonesia on Friday rejected a Chinese offer for negotiations on the South China Sea, as Jakarta reiterated that it had no overlapping claims with Beijing in its exclusive economic zone."

Translation: we do not accept your historic rights claim.

Just think about the source of such defiance against infinitely powerful China, for their small neighbours. Isn’t it pretty clear ?
 
Just think about the source of such defiance against infinitely powerful China, for their small neighbours. Isn’t it pretty clear ?
I really liked the way Indonesians have responded. They have shown some spine to these Chinese monkies.
China has put itself in a very difficult situation. The bully now needs to come true on its words and fight India or it will loose face forever as being nothing but just stinky hot air.
 
S

Stupid argument. We are at the brink of China-India war here. We need allies to take on superior enemy and its proxies(more than one at our border)
Its more of our own necessity that US.
Chinese are not going to war with US any time soon. They will finish of inferior neighbours like India, Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan first before taking on a superior US.
US no doubt is interested but keep in mind that they have other options too. But we have none. We need someone who can scare the shit out of Chinese .
Just see the Chinese reaction on SoKo THAAD deployment and see what I’m talking about
If you are under any impression that US will help India nothing can be worse than that. US will do nothing other than giving lip sympathy and useless statements. We need to fight on our own. Only last big action I could remember was NSG deal that was passed to ensure US got deal for nuclear reactors. Why dont you tell what concrete action US has taken to help India on china other than giving statements or selling few military hardware which is nothing but pure business.

Our so called ally is not ally but just shared interest, they will throw us under the bus if they get a better deal any time.
 
I really liked the way Indonesians have responded. They have shown some spine to these Chinese monkies.
China has put itself in a very difficult situation. The bully now needs to come true on its words and fight India or it will loose face forever as being nothing but just stinky hot air.
I've a feeling things are headed for some sort of a skirmish. I, personally believe, Modi feels betrayed by what China undertook on the LAC which seems to be contrary to all those commitments Xi extended him in the Wuhan & Mamalapuram summits. China certainly expects him to back off & comply with their demands.To the Chinese, even symbolic measures like Indians reaching out to them will see them portraying these as a climb down which ironically enough can & will be seen as such . In many ways if this is to be resolved diplomatically, it has to be done at the highest level & perhaps in person .I doubt whether Modi is in a mood to oblige them.


The question then to be posed & answered in such an eventuality is whoever wins in such a skirmish there's no going back to all those agreements concluded since 1993 then , which means hard borders & a return in some ways to the post 1962 scenario but with heavily armed & patrolled borders with men with itchy fingers.
 
I really liked the way Indonesians have responded. They have shown some spine to these Chinese monkies.
China has put itself in a very difficult situation. The bully now needs to come true on its words and fight India or it will loose face forever as being nothing but just stinky hot air.
Duterte was the one who let down ASEAN in the first place. He chose defeat from the ICJ win. And refused to claim his own territory.

Actually its Vietnam who stood u to the Chinese like a Steel against all intimidation with all the economic sacrifice. They just don’t give a shit to all Chinese propaganda. Despite taking Anti China stance since Decades, they are progressing well and gaining clout and cradiblility each passing day.
 
I've a feeling things are headed for some sort of a skirmish. I, personally believe, Modi feels betrayed by what China undertook on the LAC which seems to be contrary to all those commitments Xi extended him in the Wuhan & Mamalapuram summits. China certainly expects him to back off & comply with their demands.To the Chinese, even symbolic measures like Indians reaching out to them will see them portraying these as a climb down which ironically enough can & will be seen as such . In many ways if this is to be resolved diplomatically, it has to be done at the highest level & perhaps in person .I doubt whether Modi is in a mood to oblige them.


The question then to be posed & answered in such an eventuality is whoever wins in such a skirmish there's no going back to all those agreements concluded since 1993 then , which means hard borders & a return in some ways to the post 1962 scenario but with heavily armed & patrolled borders with men with itchy fingers.
Next two weeks from today are critical to be monitored.
 
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If you are under any impression that US will help India nothing can be worse than that. US will do nothing other than giving lip sympathy and useless statements. We need to fight on our own. Only last big action I could remember was NSG deal that was passed to ensure US got deal for nuclear reactors. Why dont you tell what concrete action US has taken to help India on china other than giving statements or selling few military hardware which is nothing but pure business.

Our so called ally is not ally but just shared interest, they will throw us under the bus if they get a better deal any time.
US is supplying top of the line weapons to us. And is willing to sell even more lethal arms.
US is the one who is responsible for our IT industry. US is the only developed country we have a trade surplus.
US is willing to help us in industrial sector by influencing the US companies to wene away from China.
US is helping us in Indian Ocean and South China Sea in tracing and tracking Chinese Ships.
Our scientists get raining in a lot of Top us institutions like NASA, MIT etc.
US is a major buyer of Drugs made In India.
US helped us in 62 war by threatening to attack China if they don’t withdraw.

This is what came to my mind within few seconds. There is a lot more I’m sure.

PS: no Nation helps other out of generosity . Its all about common interests and goals. But ideologues like NaharWho failed to understand this and get whopped by Chinese. He braught disgrace to himself and to the nation just because of this same stupid non alignment ideology.
His daughter Indira thrown this like a disease and result is Bangladesh. Our only meaningful achievement of existence as an independent state.
 
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The question then to be posed & answered in such an eventuality is whoever wins in such a skirmish there's no going back to all those agreements concluded since 1993 then , which means hard borders & a return in some ways to the post 1962 scenario but with heavily armed & patrolled borders with men with itchy fingers.
Looks like these Indo China agreements will suffer the same fate as the great India Pakistan "ceasefire agreement"..
 
Any declassified document to support this assertion?
Half hearted threat issued by officials in the Kennedy administration including the threat of using nukes. In the event China unilaterally declared a cease fire & withdrew & a few years later conducted their first N test at Lop Nor.
 
My take on the current situation is very different from other members.

We are clearly staring at a new world with newer alliances like the cold war-1 times when we had NATO & WARSAW Pact. The new world order is still to evolve but the weapon to fight will be OIL. China has over 30 year contract for oil supply from Russia. China is the biggest importer of oil. Iran-Iraq-Syria-Russia- Central Asia-Venezuala have more oil with them than OPEC and USA. India is the second largest importer of oil after China. If India joins the group of nations opposed to USA & NATO, the balance will tilt in favour of this alliance. Just the size of oil market between these nations will be worth more than the combined GDP of OPEC. USA companies have imvested large amount of money in OPEC countries. In such a situation, if the oil is flooded in the market resulting in crash of price, it will pinch rest of the world more than it will pinch this alliance led by Russia & China. India is needed to ensure this happens because if India is not part of such an alliance against USA, this alliance will fail as every emeber of this alliance has an oil based economy and USA will impose sanctions on them all.
Few days back someone had posted a thread here about how USSR broke up due to the oil price war started by Saudi Arabia and how Putin has decided to now break apart the Arab world. Western Europe is completely dependednt on oil supply from Russia and I do foresee that if this alliance grows and India joins this alliance, we will see some kind of regrouping of old USSR nations into this new alliance. Putin has many times stated this openly as his vision for old soviet block countries.
Baba Banaras had posted a few things about this offer from China. It appears to me that this offer was conveyed by Russia informally to India recently and the bait used was POK+GB+Aksai Chin. China added another condition of CPEC/BRI in this offer. Who gains and who looses if India does take up this offer?

Russia will come to dominate the world again and more strongly than USSR ever did. China will become undisputed manufacturing hub of the world and will dominate the world affairs with impunity as it will have no rivals in its backyard of Asia and it will more than recover its investments in BRI with domination of Indian market. India will be able to get back all its territories without firing a bullet and will have very peaceful frontiers since 1947. But who emerges the biggest loser in this alliance led by Russia?

India will be the biggest looser. We will become a vassal state of Russia and China. We will get sanctioned by USA & Europe which are our biggest markets. We will lose the markets even in Asia which we are slowly cultivating. We will be just another country with independent policy of its own. We will loose Indo-Pacific to China including IOR & Africa.

The best course of action for us remains the NAM. Equi-distant and Equi-Friendly with both and all groups. Let us not become a sounding board for others or join the fight between others. We need to protect our Independence and our freedom as a nation which does not depend on anyone. Compared to anyother country of the world, India is the only country which will have no effect on its economy in case of sanctions by any allince. We demonstrated that in 1999 when USA had sanctioned us after Shakti-2 explosions. Our economy remained resolute with no effect at all.
IMO Russia would not be so eager to join the Chinese block ( yes this block would be dominated by China despite Russia being a part of it if it chooses so) due to several reasons :
1- They too don't trust Chinese fully due to
sterling of Russian tech done by China. Russians also fear that a militarily strong China may put its claim on resource rich Russian far east in the future. The vehement pushing of national interests by completely regarding the interests of other party by Chinese also makes them unreliable partner.
2- Any such grouping would make Russia a junior partner of China as Chinese have much more economic clout to ensure total domination in that block.
3- Putin's goal of revival of Russian economy and making whole eastern Europe completely dependent on Russian energy may come into jeopardy as US would surely impose sanctions on such a block as speculated by you too and Chinese won't be able to help Russians in any way in both of these matters.
Now sir, I beg to differ from your speculation that some former SovBloc countries may again join this Chinese block. Because most of these countries and all in the case of eastern Europe are democracies and quite enjoying it. They would never chose to throw away all their independence for nothing. Conversely any such bloc would tie them more towards USA since their security concern will increase exponentially.
Hence if Russia chooses to join China it would completely loose eastern Europe and with it it's dream to dominate them through Turkstream project.
4- Russians would also loose their world's biggest defence market India and also other's. Since Chinese also have started manufacturing their own weapons they would surely push their products in their own bloc hence not giving any compensation for Russia.
All in all there is very small possibility of Russia joining or making such a group.
Presently they are only trying to bargain something from west by threatening them from the prospects of such grouping. In all of this the Russian response to G11 invitation is very interesting. They didn't decline the offer but also mentioned China. Clearly indicating that they are ready to jump ships if they get a fair deal. They only want two things from west lifting of all the economic sanctions and full support for Turkstream project.
POTUS knows all this and hence he invited Russia in G11 because he too knows that without Russia a united attack against China is very difficult. I am hopeful USA will offer all the Russia wants to side with them against China and Russia would surely do that.
I apologise for unstructured response.
 
Because land grabbing is a part of communist goal. One needs to be a bit more than a akshay kumar sitting in canada and giving gyaan about patriotism to indians to understand this.
Well, one needs more knowledge than a silly book gives you. BTW, I am neither "patriotic", nor I preach "patriotism".
 
IMO Russia would not be so eager to join the Chinese block ( yes this block would be dominated by China despite Russia being a part of it if it chooses so) due to several reasons :
1- They too don't trust Chinese fully due to
sterling of Russian tech done by China. Russians also fear that a militarily strong China may put its claim on resource rich Russian far east in the future. The vehement pushing of national interests by completely regarding the interests of other party by Chinese also makes them unreliable partner.
2- Any such grouping would make Russia a junior partner of China as Chinese have much more economic clout to ensure total domination in that block.
3- Putin's goal of revival of Russian economy and making whole eastern Europe completely dependent on Russian energy may come into jeopardy as US would surely impose sanctions on such a block as speculated by you too and Chinese won't be able to help Russians in any way in both of these matters.
Now sir, I beg to differ from your speculation that some former SovBloc countries may again join this Chinese block. Because most of these countries and all in the case of eastern Europe are democracies and quite enjoying it. They would never chose to throw away all their independence for nothing. Conversely any such bloc would tie them more towards USA since their security concern will increase exponentially.
Hence if Russia chooses to join China it would completely loose eastern Europe and with it it's dream to dominate them through Turkstream project.
4- Russians would also loose their world's biggest defence market India and also other's. Since Chinese also have started manufacturing their own weapons they would surely push their products in their own bloc hence not giving any compensation for Russia.
All in all there is very small possibility of Russia joining or making such a group.
Presently they are only trying to bargain something from west by threatening them from the prospects of such grouping. In all of this the Russian response to G11 invitation is very interesting. They didn't decline the offer but also mentioned China. Clearly indicating that they are ready to jump ships if they get a fair deal. They only want two things from west lifting of all the economic sanctions and full support for Turkstream project.
POTUS knows all this and hence he invited Russia in G11 because he too knows that without Russia a united attack against China is very difficult. I am hopeful USA will offer all the Russia wants to side with them against China and Russia would surely do that.
I apologise for unstructured response.
very nicely summed up. My post was more India centric than Russia and China. It is true and also pointed out by you that any alliance which has China in it, will be dominated by China and all other partners will have to eventually behave like its vassal states. But this does change a lot if India joins this group. IMHO, Russia wants India in this alliance to create a counter weight to China. There are always wheels within wheels.
 
IMO Russia would not be so eager to join the Chinese block ( yes this block would be dominated by China despite Russia being a part of it if it chooses so) due to several reasons :
1- They too don't trust Chinese fully due to
sterling of Russian tech done by China. Russians also fear that a militarily strong China may put its claim on resource rich Russian far east in the future. The vehement pushing of national interests by completely regarding the interests of other party by Chinese also makes them unreliable partner.
2- Any such grouping would make Russia a junior partner of China as Chinese have much more economic clout to ensure total domination in that block.
3- Putin's goal of revival of Russian economy and making whole eastern Europe completely dependent on Russian energy may come into jeopardy as US would surely impose sanctions on such a block as speculated by you too and Chinese won't be able to help Russians in any way in both of these matters.
Now sir, I beg to differ from your speculation that some former SovBloc countries may again join this Chinese block. Because most of these countries and all in the case of eastern Europe are democracies and quite enjoying it. They would never chose to throw away all their independence for nothing. Conversely any such bloc would tie them more towards USA since their security concern will increase exponentially.
Hence if Russia chooses to join China it would completely loose eastern Europe and with it it's dream to dominate them through Turkstream project.
4- Russians would also loose their world's biggest defence market India and also other's. Since Chinese also have started manufacturing their own weapons they would surely push their products in their own bloc hence not giving any compensation for Russia.
All in all there is very small possibility of Russia joining or making such a group.
Presently they are only trying to bargain something from west by threatening them from the prospects of such grouping. In all of this the Russian response to G11 invitation is very interesting. They didn't decline the offer but also mentioned China. Clearly indicating that they are ready to jump ships if they get a fair deal. They only want two things from west lifting of all the economic sanctions and full support for Turkstream project.
POTUS knows all this and hence he invited Russia in G11 because he too knows that without Russia a united attack against China is very difficult. I am hopeful USA will offer all the Russia wants to side with them against China and Russia would surely do that.
I apologise for unstructured response.
Also Trump is actively trying to persuade Russia to move away from China by intending to to give various concessions.
 
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very nicely summed up. My post was more India centric than Russia and China. It is true and also pointed out by you that any alliance which has China in it, will be dominated by China and all other partners will have to eventually behave like its vassal states. But this does change a lot if India joins this group. IMHO, Russia wants India in this alliance to create a counter weight to China. There are always wheels within wheels.
Thankyou for your appreciations Sir!!!
Since you have already said that India is not going to join it hence now I am not worried about it.
Also Trump is actively trying to persuade Russia to move away from China by intending to to give various concessions.
Yeah
 
IRBMs don't exactly need to be moved to forward bases.

And Agni-V is not an IRBM.
It's a full fledged ICBM with it's max range kept classified to not piss of the West.
Even with it's declared range, it can hit whole of China. And Agni V, or any BM won't be used imo, this has already been discussed earlier. Either side doesn't know whether it's tipped with a nuke or conventional warhead and might respond with nukes. It's gonna be full on MAD then.

This is going for a limited skirmish (if at all) where only some places will see action and might see our airforce get involved.

But, still I don't think China is going to fire the first bullet, based on the trend.